KHL Expansion Part VIII

[Rigafan]

Manchester: hard enough that there hasn't been a team there since despite multiple efforts.

Well back when the Storm were playing there the arena was apparently charging around $20k per month for rent. Obviously it is a very busy arena (one of the most in the world) so its probably correct, a team in the UK charging $20 a ticket cannot pay that kind of rent per month.

There will be another arena built by the owners of Manchester City soccer which will have ice, not for hockey but you never know!

 

[remben]

London: The MSG Sphere? The one that is facing funding issues, local opposition, etc.? Great idea.
Manchester: hard enough that there hasn't been a team there since despite multiple efforts.
Paris: they don't have enough open dates for one. They're so profitable they don't need a stable tenant.
Lyon: when did it last host hockey? It's a concert hall...
Brussels: a new market that last hosted hockey in 2008 and last successfully hosted hockey...never.... great idea for a new market.
Amsterdam: Ah, Ziggo Arena. Perfectly set up for hockey...not...
Turn: I would imagine you would've done more than five seconds of research and geography assuming. I guess not.
Milan: I am right. Do some research.
Krakow: great thing about the KHL is that you need more than an arena and market. They barely have the fanbase for the Polish league.
Katowice: I hope you realize they sat out a season because of financial constraints... in the Polish league no less. So where's that 5 million people and 11,500 seat arena when they were so financially in the toilet. So they're probably great for the KHL right?

I wouldn't consider that lazy when I clearly put in more thought than you did. If you think it's mean to simply point out the huge flaws in your logic, then give me the crown.

All those established teams you mentioned, funnily enough, are actually the main and biggest proponents of individual leagues and Champions Hockey League and are part of the biggest anti-European super league, anti-joining the KHL group on the planet. None of those places you mentioned outside of the KHL are viable. The KHL even tried to expand into some of those places and those teams shut them down in the most expected way imaginable. That's why I didn't mention them. It simply wasn't worth it to point it out and add on to your noted, gigantic failure in research and logic.

I agree with you about Tony Garnier in Lyon, it's a concert hall and exhibition center, not really suitable for hockey. However, the city of Lyon will get a bigger arena (around 16000 seats) next to Groupama Stadium (Olympique Lyonnais stadium), which is planned to be used by ASVEL Basketball team (for big Jeep Elite games and Euroleague), the idea was also to use it as a hockey rink for the Lions of Lyon hockey team but the team is now in the 4th division of French ice hockey so not sure it is still on track for them to play there.

Anyway, if there would be a KHL team in France it would be in Paris and only there IMO, but for now, the main objective for French ice hockey is to get promoted from Division I and get back to the Elite of Ice Hockey, not to get a team in the KHL.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Well back when the Storm were playing there the arena was apparently charging around $20k per month for rent. Obviously it is a very busy arena (one of the most in the world) so its probably correct, a team in the UK charging $20 a ticket cannot pay that kind of rent per month.

There will be another arena built by the owners of Manchester City soccer which will have ice, not for hockey but you never know!

It is really fantastic when one bases the logic of a team's viability on "but you never know!"....

 

[vorky]

I think with leagues semi down because of covid this year, its time for a super league in europe.
KHL should keep the following 14:
-2 teams in Moscow
-SKA St. Petersburg
-Omsk
-Ufa
-Novosibirsk
-Yekaterinberg
-Nizhny Novogorod
-Kazan
-Chelyabinsk
-Nur Sultan
-Misnk
-Riga
-Helsinki
The following 6 teams should be added to the KHL 14 for a 20 team division:
-Djurgardens (Stockholm) (SHL)
-Frolunda (Gothenberg) (SHL)
-Malmo (SHL)
-Tampere (LIIGA)
-Oslo (needs new arena)
-Copenhagen

A second conference in Eurpoe should consist of:
-Berlin (DEL)
-Cologne (DEL)
-Munich (DEL)
-Hamburg (former DEL)
-Zurich (NLA)
-Geneva (NLA) (new arena needed)
-Bern (NLA)
-Prague (CZH)
-Ostrava (CZH)
-Brno (CZH) (new arena needed)
-Vienna (ICE)
-Bratislava (Slov)
and 8 of the following
-London
-Manchester
-Paris
-Lyon
-Brussels
-Amsterdam
-Turin
-Milan
-Krakow
-Katowice

Europe deserves better top tier hockey. I want to see Gothenburg play Zurich or St Petersburg not small town/ small arena teams like Timra or Oskarshamn.
This to me would be a perfect Euro league, which teams/ cities would you add or remove?

In other post you said "KHL needs to add the best teams from the other leagues." I am asking if these so-called best teams from other leagues are capable of fulfilling the KHL conditions? As I see it, this is a main hindrance for possible newcomers. And do not make a mistake, the 2021 conditions are much tougher than the 2010 etc conditions. You need a big venue, large city and at least 15-20 million euro per season. You need to guarantee the budget for three years as minimum. And of course, your market needs to be interesting enough for the KHL. You know, the KHL is not knocking on European doors (clubs) demanding this or that club to join. Opposite is true, the clubs are knocking on the KHL door with their offers. But not all are capable of fulfilling the conditions.

Ad your 14 side list

- I do not understand why you want just two Moscow teams. There is a market & history for all three clubs.
-The KHL has definitely no plans to leave the city of Sochi, multiple reasons including a big new venue. Not so many such venues & enviroment in Europe.
-I do not understand why you exclude Lokomotiv. As you know, 9 clubs spent around ₽800 mil -₽900 mil for basic salaries (without bonuses) last season, the ceiling for basic salaries is ₽900 mil. As I see it, Lokomotiv & Magnitogorsk are among them. Both clubs are missing in your list. No way the KHL would let them go & accept some European clubs with lesser budget for their replacement.
-I also do not understand why you keep Torpedo while excluding both Lokomotiv & Magnitogorsk. Fine, the cities are smaller but their budget is top-tier in the KHL (Europe).

 

[Rigafan]

It is really fantastic when one bases the logic of a team's viability on "but you never know!"....

That's UK Hockey for you!

 

[KTl]

Turin: has an arena but outside of the Olympics and one or two single events has never hosted hockey in a market that has absolutely no interest in hockey. Slightly more difficult but still solid no.

Actually Real Torino is playing in lowest Italian league (IHL Division I) and made a solid zero points this season.

 

[filip85]

I heard of money issues and exit from EBEL, but I wasn't following closely. From my POV having a team in balcans was great - I can travel and got to the games abroad.

Yes, it was money issues, I already wrote about it (my pukovnik account was hacked few days ago - probably by slovak secret police ). Time in EBEL, especially during first era was great, city basically lived for hockey, full arena for whole four seasons, good results on the ice as well.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Yes, it was money issues, I already wrote about it (my pukovnik account was hacked few days ago - probably by slovak secret police ).

Wait, pukovnik is no more? That's sad. That's also low Slovakia, really low.

 

[cska78]

Yes, it was money issues, I already wrote about it (my pukovnik account was hacked few days ago - probably by slovak secret police ). Time in EBEL, especially during first era was great, city basically lived for hockey, full arena for whole four seasons, good results on the ice as well.

So basically the team went from playing in arguably the best league in Europe, to nowhere and that made fans happy? Having players of very high caliber dine in restaurants next to you and playing in your backyard....I get the part about travel and rivalries, but now what? Anyways, on my end Zagreb was a loss.

 

[cska78]

If KHL were to expend, I say go for Norway and Denmark. It's pretty clear, that they have cought up and in case of Denmark - overtaken ex-republics. A team in Oslo and one in Kopengagen would be really good for KHL

 

[OskarOskarius]

I think with leagues semi down because of covid this year, its time for a super league in europe.
KHL should keep the following 14:
-2 teams in Moscow
-SKA St. Petersburg
-Omsk
-Ufa
-Novosibirsk
-Yekaterinberg
-Nizhny Novogorod
-Kazan
-Chelyabinsk
-Nur Sultan
-Misnk
-Riga
-Helsinki
The following 6 teams should be added to the KHL 14 for a 20 team division:
-Djurgardens (Stockholm) (SHL)
-Frolunda (Gothenberg) (SHL)
-Malmo (SHL)
-Tampere (LIIGA)
-Oslo (needs new arena)
-Copenhagen

A second conference in Eurpoe should consist of:
-Berlin (DEL)
-Cologne (DEL)
-Munich (DEL)
-Hamburg (former DEL)
-Zurich (NLA)
-Geneva (NLA) (new arena needed)
-Bern (NLA)
-Prague (CZH)
-Ostrava (CZH)
-Brno (CZH) (new arena needed)
-Vienna (ICE)
-Bratislava (Slov)
and 8 of the following
-London
-Manchester
-Paris
-Lyon
-Brussels
-Amsterdam
-Turin
-Milan
-Krakow
-Katowice

Europe deserves better top tier hockey. I want to see Gothenburg play Zurich or St Petersburg not small town/ small arena teams like Timra or Oskarshamn.
This to me would be a perfect Euro league, which teams/ cities would you add or remove?

I’d welcome some sort of cooperation between SHL and the other Nordic leagues as a way to counteract this aggressive expansionist ambitions from the KHL. Maybe a Swedish-Finnish league, with final between the best teams in Swedish conference and Finnish conference.

 

[ChaiTiefling]

Manchester: Does AO Arena even have a functioning ice plant? When's the last time anyone in the area even mentioned ice hockey? Easy No.

Some clarification on Manchester - ground has already been broken on a new 23,000-seat arena next to the Etihad Stadium and the owners, headed by Tim Leiweke who has several ties to NHL teams, have stated they want hockey to be played out of there. Whether this means NHL, KHL or other, we don't know.

The existing arena is old and got rid of the ice plant a while back, that one's a non-starter.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Some clarification on Manchester - ground has already been broken on a new 23,000-seat arena next to the Etihad Stadium and the owners, headed by Tim Leiweke who has several ties to NHL teams, have stated they want hockey to be played out of there. Whether this means NHL, KHL or other, we don't know.

The existing arena is old and got rid of the ice plant a while back, that one's a non-starter.

Won't be NHL. NHL isn't going to Europe. They're not even going to Québec City. If there was anything linking it to the KHL, one of their unofficial mouthpieces on here would've opened their mouths.

Every article I've seen on that Manchester arena has stated they wanted to host events and there is nothing about full time hockey tenant. They mentioned the ability to host hockey. It is the same thing that was said about construction of the O2 Arena in London. They specifically didn't mention tenants because it is so busy they would actually lose money if they had any tenants, they make so much money hosting individual events they don't need any tenants to fill dates. They're booked at capacity all year long and their only off dates are for setting up and breaking down the floor for events.

 

[Faterson]

NHL isn't going to Europe.

For now, perhaps, but I'm sure it will happen one day, and there'll be one premier hockey league on this planet, with continental conferences/divisions.

 

[filip85]

For now, perhaps, but I'm sure it will happen one day, and there'll be one premier hockey league on this planet, with continental conferences/divisions.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

For now, perhaps, but I'm sure it will happen one day, and there'll be one premier hockey league on this planet, with continental conferences/divisions.

What color is the sky in your world?

 

[Lackhalak]

For now, perhaps, but I'm sure it will happen one day, and there'll be one premier hockey league on this planet, with continental conferences/divisions.

Love the optimism, what Europe has now is a mixed bag of crap and could be so much better

 

[vorky]

Morozov to ESPN Emily Kaplan

Nonetheless, there's always intrigue about further expansion. Morozov said the league has been "working in this direction," and has already been in contact with several prospective clubs. Nothing will be finalized for next season, and all prospective clubs must have necessary infrastructure and financial guarantees for at least three years. In the meantime, the KHL is planning on holding two exhibition games in different countries next season.

The KHL World Games for 2021-2022 are not confirmed yet.

 

[Rigafan]

Won't be NHL. NHL isn't going to Europe. They're not even going to Québec City. If there was anything linking it to the KHL, one of their unofficial mouthpieces on here would've opened their mouths.

Every article I've seen on that Manchester arena has stated they wanted to host events and there is nothing about full time hockey tenant. They mentioned the ability to host hockey. It is the same thing that was said about construction of the O2 Arena in London. They specifically didn't mention tenants because it is so busy they would actually lose money if they had any tenants, they make so much money hosting individual events they don't need any tenants to fill dates. They're booked at capacity all year long and their only off dates are for setting up and breaking down the floor for events.

If anybody thinks an Arena in Manchester is going to have a full time NHL team they need to go to the hospital.

It could well be used for some NHL Europe type games or KHL games but having soo many seats means its going to be to big for the UK League, for example.

 

[Faterson]

What color is the sky in your world?

It's crimson, with tinges of fuchsia here and there. Just like everywhere else, I suppose.

Yeah, that was exactly the reaction around 10 years ago to the idea of Slovan (or any Slovak team) joining the KHL. "Never gonna happen in a million years!" Yet it happened, and it was a success. They'll get back to the KHL ASAP.

I'm confident there'll be a world-wide hockey, football/soccer, etc. league one day. Not just a European Super League for football – Brazil and Argentina, among others, need to join as well, of course.

It's not going to happen within a year or perhaps within a decade, but I'm pretty sure we'll get to experience those world-wide sports leagues within our lifetimes. (Unless you & Barclay are 80+ years old.)

 

[alko]

It's crimson, with tinges of fuchsia here and there. Just like everywhere else, I suppose.



Yeah, that was exactly the reaction around 10 years ago to the idea of Slovan (or any Slovak team) joining the KHL. "Never gonna happen in a million years!" Yet it happened, and it was a success. They'll get back to the KHL ASAP.

I'm confident there'll be a world-wide hockey, football/soccer, etc. league one day. Not just a European Super League for football – Brazil and Argentina, among others, need to join as well, of course.

It's not going to happen within a year or perhaps within a decade, but I'm pretty sure we'll get to experience those world-wide sports leagues within our lifetimes. (Unless you & Barclay are 80+ years old.)

I agree. When there will be some hypersonic plane, the travel will not be such disaster as now.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I agree. When there will be some hypersonic plane, the travel will not be such disaster as now.

Concorde - Wikipedia

This technology has existed for decades. No super league. Try again.

 

[alko]

Concorde - Wikipedia

This technology has existed for decades. No super league. Try again.

Oh man. That was 14 years ago! Are you frozen Mammoth? Look to the bright future man....

Maybe this or this and in 50 years maybe also this could trim travel times. Then the whole global environment will be much much different.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Oh man. That was 14 years ago! Are you frozen Mammoth? Look to the bright future man....

Maybe this or this and in 50 years maybe also this could trim travel times. Then the whole global environment will be much much different.

The Concorde first went into service in 1976 and went out of service in the 2000s. So redo your math.

If you're basing all of your logic on this, then you need to reassess...

 

[cska78]

TU-144 in 1968.