KHL Expansion part IV (Mod warning post 760)

[Jussi]

This is funny, this is exactly what Finns were saying..

Just to clarify/remind, what we Finns were saying:
- no money in Finland to do it
- Russian money would be required (which is how it turned out to be)
- Finnish clubs were unwilling to sell and the federation wasn't going to allow it.

Now what changed on the last part was that Jokerit owner Harkimo's businesses weren't going so well and the number of events at Hartwall Arena (as it's called since New Year, dropped one "e") was going to drop a lot. Also, because the head of the Finnish hockey fed has financial ties to Hartwall Arena, he was going to financially benefit from the sale. Also, had Harkimo conducted the affairs with the Finnish league according to rules, he would not have been allowed to do so and ended up paying to the clubs)or forfeiting tv revenues).

Difference to Sweden is that they don't have such a shifty guy as Kummola running their federation and that the shenanigans that occurred in Finland wouldn't be possible there since they have to ask the opinion of every arena cleaners before deciding on anything. So it's not going to happen in Sweden.

 

[martin1983]

Just to clarify/remind, what we Finns were saying:
- no money in Finland to do it
- Russian money would be required (which is how it turned out to be)
- Finnish clubs were unwilling to sell and the federation wasn't going to allow it.

Now what changed on the last part was that Jokerit owner Harkimo's businesses weren't going so well and the number of events at Hartwall Arena (as it's called since New Year, dropped one "e") was going to drop a lot. Also, because the head of the Finnish hockey fed has financial ties to Hartwall Arena, he was going to financially benefit from the sale. Also, had Harkimo conducted the affairs with the Finnish league according to rules, he would not have been allowed to do so and ended up paying to the clubs)or forfeiting tv revenues).

Difference to Sweden is that they don't have such a shifty guy as Kummola running their federation and that the shenanigans that occurred in Finland wouldn't be possible there since they have to ask the opinion of every arena cleaners before deciding on anything. So it's not going to happen in Sweden.

It's still all about the money.. nothing more, nothing less.. there are three examples from recent years..

KHL in Czech republic, that's not possible, not ever..

- Czech Hockey Federation will not allow it
- Money will be issue.
- No one cares about KHL
- It will destroy Czech Extraliga, because best players will play in Czech KHL team

HC Lev Praha

KHL in Slovakia, that's not possible, not ever..

- Slovak Hockey Federation will not allow it
- Money will be issue.
- No one cares about KHL
- It will destroy Slovak Extraliga, because Slovak KHL team will steal all Slovak sponsors and all good players..

at first - HC Lev Poprad
HC Slovan Bratislava

KHL in Finland, that's not possible, not ever..

- no money in Finland to do it
- Russian money would be required (which is how it turned out to be)
- Finnish clubs were unwilling to sell and the federation wasn't going to allow it.

Jokerit Helsinki

KHL in Sweden, that's not possible, not ever..

(..space for your reasons why..)

(space for new KHL team)

 

[cska78]

I see no reason to convince people here what they should do, time will tell.

 

[Jussi]

It's still all about the money.. nothing more, nothing less.. there are three examples from recent years..

KHL in Czech republic, that's not possible, not ever..

- Czech Hockey Federation will not allow it
- Money will be issue.
- No one cares about KHL
- It will destroy Czech Extraliga, because best players will play in Czech KHL team

HC Lev Praha

KHL in Slovakia, that's not possible, not ever..

- Slovak Hockey Federation will not allow it
- Money will be issue.
- No one cares about KHL
- It will destroy Slovak Extraliga, because Slovak KHL team will steal all Slovak sponsors and all good players..

at first - HC Lev Poprad
HC Slovan Bratislava

Was there really anyone who said Czech federation or Slovak federation wouldn't allow it?

And by the way, have you checked what the state of Slovak league is today?

 

[martin1983]

Was there really anyone who said Czech federation or Slovak federation wouldn't allow it?

Yes, first attempt to join to KHL was rejected by both Federations (Czech federation rejected it two times if I remember it correctly)..

And by the way, have you checked what the state of Slovak league is today?

This is not really relevant to this theme.. Yes it was one and probably biggest argument against, but it's simple.. Is there Slovak team in KHL? Yes.

I see no reason to convince people here what they should do, time will tell.

It is just discussion..

 

[croAVSfan*]

This is funny, this is exactly what Finns were saying..



Based on the map, they should split it like this
KHL team map 2014

Blues - west
Red - east


For example:

4 games in your division: 4 x 7 = 28 games
2 games all others: 2*24 = 48
28 + 48 = 76 games

I prefer more games, but I heard something about 62 games, so your scenario is more likely..

62 games in regular season sounds just fine.

 

[BlueBratislava]

And by the way, have you checked what the state of Slovak league is today?

Slovak league is in the same exact shape as when Slovan left the league. Nothing is principally different, there are only a few exceptions.
1. SHK 37 Piestany were promoted as the replacement for Slovan. They are in the 4th place out of 10 and they have a pretty interesting team for the league's standard.
2. The amount of old useless czech players has gone down.
3. HC Kosice is losing fans by thousands, their attendance this year is horrendous.
4. HC Dukla Trencin has somewhat improved their financial situation and got rid of some old debt.

Overall Slovan's departure has not changed anything directly, the players they have are mostly NOT from Slovak Extraliga. I see other slovakian teams' fans at Slovan games pretty frequently and they all come to watch Slovan "in the new league." The other teams hated us and when we played away they sang very rude things at our players and team and on web forums they still show childish hatred and jealousy towards our team. I am very satisfied not to be in that league anymore.

 

[Exarz]

Martin: You can put in Malmö, Djurgården or AIK (if they get relegated from SHL) under the list of Swedish teams

 

[Jonimaus]

Martin: You can put in Malmö, Djurgården or AIK (if they get relegated from SHL) under the list of Swedish teams

Malmö has already said they'll just move to Isstaion if Percy Nilsson won't let them play in the arena unless they move to KHL. So remove them from the list. Don't think you'll be able to move Djurgården either with their hardcore fans. AIK is a less popular team, and in much worse shape, so if 1 team would move it would be them.

 

[martin1983]

Malmö has already said they'll just move to Isstaion if Percy Nilsson won't let them play in the arena unless they move to KHL. So remove them from the list. Don't think you'll be able to move Djurgården either with their hardcore fans. AIK is a less popular team, and in much worse shape, so if 1 team would move it would be them.

Jonimaus: We are still in circle. Jussi tought that problems with Hockey federation was only in Sweden, but guess what? No this problem was also in Slovakia and Czech.. now hardcore fans are problem?

Ok so let me tell you something..

Slovan is traditional club with many hardcore fans too.. And keep on mind that there is also futbal club Sk Slovan Bratislava with worse hooligans in Slovakia which also support(ed) HC Slovan...

At first, they protests, then they wanted to boycott games.. but still almost all Slovan games including friendlies was sold out.

Martin: You can put in Malmö, Djurgården or AIK (if they get relegated from SHL) under the list of Swedish teams

Maybe, but still there are also candidates from other countries.. I'm just surprised how almost all Swedes believe that it is not possible despite experiences in Slovakia, Czech and Finland....

 

[Jonimaus]

Jonimaus: We are still in circle. Jussi tought that problems with Hockey federation was only in Sweden, but guess what? No this problem was also in Slovakia and Czech.. now hardcore fans are problem?

Ok so let me tell you something..

Slovan is traditional club with many hardcore fans too.. And keep on mind that there is also futbal club Sk Slovan Bratislava with worse hooligans in Slovakia which also support(ed) HC Slovan...

At first, they protests, then they wanted to boycott games.. but still almost all Slovan games including friendlies was sold out.



Maybe, but still there are also candidates from other countries.. I'm just surprised how almost all Swedes believe that it is not possible despite experiences in Slovakia, Czech and Finland....

Difference is: SHL is a strong league, Slovakian and Czech, not so much. Jussi already explained what happend to Jokerit enough times.

But hey, maybe Djurgården is fine with losing the hardcore fans? I'm sure some russian would be willing to pay enough so that attendance doesn't matter.

 

[loppa*]

Difference is: SHL is a strong league, Slovakian and Czech, not so much. Jussi already explained what happend to Jokerit enough times.

But hey, maybe Djurgården is fine with losing the hardcore fans? I'm sure some russian would be willing to pay enough so that attendance doesn't matter.

Those others were strong leagues too.

The KHL is in no rush. You either join them or die from them. Be prepared for that vacuum cleaner to suck up the talent out of Sweden. Then we'll see what you say about strong leagues LOL LOL

 

[cska78]

Those others were strong leagues too.

The KHL is in no rush. You either join them or die from them. Be prepared for that vacuum cleaner to suck up the talent out of Sweden. Then we'll see what you say about strong leagues LOL LOL

the swedes will have a hard time playing in the KHL for a long time, 1-2 years and they go home.

 

[Jonimaus]

Those others were strong leagues too.

The KHL is in no rush. You either join them or die from them. Be prepared for that vacuum cleaner to suck up the talent out of Sweden. Then we'll see what you say about strong leagues LOL LOL

Ok you convinced me, please let us have a team.

 

[ForumNamePending]

Those others were strong leagues too.

The KHL is in no rush. You either join them or die from them. Be prepared for that vacuum cleaner to suck up the talent out of Sweden. Then we'll see what you say about strong leagues LOL LOL

Well it's certainly a good thing the KHL has come to save European hockey from the evil NHL.

 

[VladNYC*]

Slovak league is in the same exact shape as when Slovan left the league. Nothing is principally different, there are only a few exceptions.
1. SHK 37 Piestany were promoted as the replacement for Slovan. They are in the 4th place out of 10 and they have a pretty interesting team for the league's standard.
2. The amount of old useless czech players has gone down.
3. HC Kosice is losing fans by thousands, their attendance this year is horrendous.
4. HC Dukla Trencin has somewhat improved their financial situation and got rid of some old debt.

Overall Slovan's departure has not changed anything directly, the players they have are mostly NOT from Slovak Extraliga. I see other slovakian teams' fans at Slovan games pretty frequently and they all come to watch Slovan "in the new league." The other teams hated us and when we played away they sang very rude things at our players and team and on web forums they still show childish hatred and jealousy towards our team. I am very satisfied not to be in that league anymore.

Great post.

 

[VladNYC*]

Jonimaus: We are still in circle. Jussi tought that problems with Hockey federation was only in Sweden, but guess what? No this problem was also in Slovakia and Czech.. now hardcore fans are problem?

Ok so let me tell you something..

Slovan is traditional club with many hardcore fans too.. And keep on mind that there is also futbal club Sk Slovan Bratislava with worse hooligans in Slovakia which also support(ed) HC Slovan...

At first, they protests, then they wanted to boycott games.. but still almost all Slovan games including friendlies was sold out.



Maybe, but still there are also candidates from other countries.. I'm just surprised how almost all Swedes believe that it is not possible despite experiences in Slovakia, Czech and Finland....

Martin..our Swedish friends are unique and rare snow flakes. Apparently they live in a vacuum well away from the rest of the world. Our Finnish friends used to be that way too. Then Jokerit happened and boy did the water fall of tears and *****ing commence when they were all wrong. Personally I am really looking forward to the new season.

It's funny how quickly everyone forgot all the fuss that was going on when Lev and Slovan were going to join.

 

[Jussi]

Slovak league is in the same exact shape as when Slovan left the league. Nothing is principally different, there are only a few exceptions.
1. SHK 37 Piestany were promoted as the replacement for Slovan. They are in the 4th place out of 10 and they have a pretty interesting team for the league's standard.
2. The amount of old useless czech players has gone down.
3. HC Kosice is losing fans by thousands, their attendance this year is horrendous.
4. HC Dukla Trencin has somewhat improved their financial situation and got rid of some old debt.

Overall Slovan's departure has not changed anything directly, the players they have are mostly NOT from Slovak Extraliga. I see other slovakian teams' fans at Slovan games pretty frequently and they all come to watch Slovan "in the new league." The other teams hated us and when we played away they sang very rude things at our players and team and on web forums they still show childish hatred and jealousy towards our team. I am very satisfied not to be in that league anymore.

I'm sorry but being a Jokerit fan and I'm/we're subjected to similar but if any of us posted something like this, even Jokerit fans would reply with "oh, cry me a river". You need to suck it up, grow a pair and take it like a man.

 

[Jussi]

Difference is: SHL is a strong league, Slovakian and Czech, not so much. Jussi already explained what happend to Jokerit enough times.

And it's also ran more professionally than ours which spends more time bickering and looking after their own arses than looking out for the common good. Your federation is also not ran by an Iron Chancelor.

 

[loppa*]

Ok you convinced me, please let us have a team.

You're welcome.

I just don't know if joining the KHL is a good or bad thing. I have mixed feelings.

Edit/add: Basically, you guys are screwed in either way. Same for the Finns. Lulz.

 

[Exarz]

Malmö has already said they'll just move to Isstaion if Percy Nilsson won't let them play in the arena unless they move to KHL. So remove them from the list. Don't think you'll be able to move Djurgården either with their hardcore fans. AIK is a less popular team, and in much worse shape, so if 1 team would move it would be them.

Neither Djurgården nor AIK is not in the best financial place, same with Malmö (even though it's getting better through the reconstruction). Just look what AIK did in 2008 when they had a financial crisis. I think either of these clubs would consider joining the KHL if it would save the club.

 

[martin1983]

Difference is: SHL is a strong league, Slovakian and Czech, not so much. Jussi already explained what happend to Jokerit enough times.

And it's also ran more professionally than ours which spends more time bickering and looking after their own arses than looking out for the common good. Your federation is also not ran by an Iron Chancelor.

You are mixing apples with pears. Quality of the league (organization) is one thing, mentality of fans is different thing. I think it is comparable. You can easily find some older "highlights" as the evidance on youtube or in press..

Note: Average attendance on regular season Slovan games in last season before KHL was 5 907.

 

[pulverapa]

You guys are repeating what already have been said about the Swedish situation.

My point was, on the contrary to what Mr. Medvedev said, no Swedish team wants to join the KHL at the moment.

Every country is unique and has it's specific situation. It is true that Finland is a better country to compare to Sweden than for example Slovakia, but still, we have different league systems and different situations.

Moving a team like Djurgården or Aik to the KHL is like Newcastle wants to join the Scottish football league. The fans aren't gonna be happy about it...

 

[martin1983]

You guys are repeating what already have been said about the Swedish situation.

this is exactly what you and others do .. Not Swedish team will ever join KHL bla bla bla.

My point was, on the contrary to what Mr. Medvedev said, no Swedish team wants to join the KHL at the moment.

When exactly he said it? I posted here link to interview with Slovak press 14/1/2014 (that's was this Tuesday) where he said: "There are many clubs which want to join KHL. We have interest in clubs from Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, Belarus and Kazakhstan".

I know many fans don't take him seriously, but common he is President. Who can be taken seriously, if not the president?

Every country is unique and has it's specific situation. It is true that Finland is a better country to compare to Sweden than for example Slovakia, but still, we have different league systems and different situations.

Yes of course.

Moving a team like Djurgården or Aik to the KHL is like Newcastle wants to join the Scottish football league. The fans aren't gonna be happy about it...

That's exactly what I thought. Do you really believe that Slovan hardcore fans including futbal hooligans was happy with that situation? Yes of course because futbal hooligans in Slovakia are darlings. They give love and flowers to everyone they meet.

Sorry but this is never ending story, ok so situation in Sweden is completly different then in Slovakia, Czech republic and also then in Finland and no Swedish team will ever join to the KHL. Are happy, now?

 

[BlueBratislava]

I'm sorry but being a Jokerit fan and I'm/we're subjected to similar but if any of us posted something like this, even Jokerit fans would reply with "oh, cry me a river". You need to suck it up, grow a pair and take it like a man.

LOL man, you don't understand the hockey relationships in our country then. I am saying that Slovan's departure only helped status quo IMO, but I am not crying about the past like you said!! During the CS Federal Republic the Slovaks complained about the people in Prague not helping Slovak hockey while only working on Czech hockey. After the split up of the countries, HC Slovan Bratislava, HC Kosice and HC Dukla Trencin were the only slovak teams from the old federal league. The rest of the new Slovak Extraliga was composed of the Tier 2 teams. The new Slovak Federation was managed by Slovan's owner and The Extraliga comittee was headed by Slovan's GM. Therefore the new target of Slovaks' hatred became Slovan. Here nobody is responsible for their problems, they always find someone to blame Slovan and little bit later Kosice tried to do things on the next level from the rest of the league. The people around the country complained about us the whole time we played in the league, and then when the management announced Slovan joining the KHL... all of a sudden everybody said the league will be weaker without Slovan.