KHL Expansion part IV (Mod warning post 760)

[bobbeaver]

Doesn't change the fact that you are overvaluating the Danes.

Hansen by the way played in the WHL before NHL. Andersen also went unsigned and got re-drafted after that season in Sweden.

No. I know they are weaker than Norwegians or Germans on average and in depth, but they can still beat them, and you are underrating their growth. They have closed the margin by leaps and bounds in a rather short amount of time. They were in 2000. in pool B in the 5th, so in the back, and never have they been better placed before that. But from 2003. they are a top tier regular. With greater sustainability in the top tier and sending 7 player to NHL. In 2010. Worlds they beat Finland 4:1 and US 2:1, Slovakia 6:0 and loosing to Sweden 4:2 in the quarterfinals. Im sorry but that is huge progress since 2000. being in a pool B in the back of the class. They have ways to grow for sure to be where Swiss are for example, but they are growing fast. They need depth and the avg players to be on a higher lvl and that is happening. They need to raise their national hockey league in quaity(probably a bit more financing of their national league too). but there is a marked improvement in that aswell since 2000.'s

Hansen played in WHL 1 year, which is nothing. He played in the AHL for much longer but this whole thing was in his 20's.
Doesnt matter Anderson went unsigned, and he played only 1 year in Sweden which is again nothing.
Both of these guys were clearly schooled in Denmark and the whole foundation was made by danish coaches. Rest is just building up on those foundations.

 

[bobbeaver]

But it doesn't make any sense to sponsor a team outside of Russia. It will be decades of fantastic marketing before hockey is a sport the average person in France cares about, if it will ever happen. Handball has always been a sport on the radar in France, so it's a decent way (still obviously not even close to football), to gain popularity, use it as a status symbol or whatever they are owning a team for.

If they really wanted to own a hockey team, why not grab an excisting team? Grab one in Russia or whatever. Trying to get a fresh new team for an extremely niche sport is just doomed to fail unless you have decades of patience, which I really doubt they have. Owning a team in Russia is instant recognition (I guess?) because KHL is big over there.

Besides, I'm not really sure what time-frame you guys are talking about. France won't be interested enough to justify having a KHL team within the next 20 years, that's for sure at least.

Because it would be PSG hockey club, and PSG is a brand name. or they could help out the ambitious existing Paris club.

And pls stop comparing any sport to football. it is ridiculous. Football is no1. world sport. Nothing comes close and nothing will. Not even close. It even forced it self into the US in a big way, when they were opposed to it as a European panzie sport.

Hockey is not extremely niche sport. you can say its regionalized, but so was handball. Hockey is creeping onto the raidar now aswell as the league is getting stronger, development of young homegrown players better. If the Paris current club gets to Ligue Magnus (and gets an arena with atlest 5k seats) it would help alot the sport as France is Paris centric. I say give it 10 years after Paris has a club in Ligue Magnus and you could have nice french roster with nice attendance. Even less if they pick up the development pace and get stronger marketing.

 

[Jonimaus]

Because it would be PSG hockey club, and PSG is a brand name. or they could help out the ambitious existing Paris club.

And pls stop comparing any sport to football. it is ridiculous. Football is no1. world sport. Nothing comes close and nothing will. Not even close. It even forced it self into the US in a big way, when they were opposed to it as a European panzie sport.

Hockey is not extremely niche sport. you can say its regionalized, but so was handball. Hockey is creeping onto the raidar now aswell as the league is getting stronger, development of young homegrown players better. If the Paris current club gets to Ligue Magnus (and gets an arena with atlest 5k seats) it would help alot the sport as France is Paris centric. I say give it 10 years after Paris has a club in Ligue Magnus and you could have nice french roster with nice attendance. Even less if they pick up the development pace and get stronger marketing.

Fine, let's discuss this again in 10 years.

 

[bobbeaver]

Fine, let's discuss this again in 10 years.

you got it so 10 years? over drink in Zagreb? (alcohol is and in 10 years will be cheaper than in Sweden lol)

 

[Jonimaus]

you got it so 10 years? over drink in Zagreb? (alcohol is and in 10 years will be cheaper than in Sweden lol)

Sure thing. Let's pray there some extreme development in the teleportation department.

 

[thevreelander]

Is it me or this whole crazy expansion project is getting more and more ridiculous ?

Can somebody explain me the point of creating teams all around Europe, in countries that don't give a damn about the sport ?

In france, Ice hockey is the smallest article in sport newspapers, nobody cares... ( the winter classic in Grenoble was a nice try, I don't think it represent at all the state of ice hockey in France).

Expansion for expansion, what's the point ? KHL is/was great with its "eastern feel" so to speak ?

I really don't care to see a Paris - London game or even a Milan - Novosibirsk...

Maybe i'm too conservative on this topic, but I don't like this Western Europe division at all...

It's just uncharted territory that's impossible to predict on forums. As for the expansion as a whole, it's just the KHL trying to own European hockey one day, like the NHL owns North America. When the NHL was coming up there was a bunch of other rival leagues that could of decided to challenge them, the WHA did. European hockey leagues have developed into prospect leagues and the KHL is the first real attempt to make a professional hockey league. People on these forums don't see the point of the expansion and think the KHL is destined to fail, but in reality the NHL had the same doubters during there expansion ERA in the 60s.

 

[martin1983]

Did you read the interview with A Medvedev to Slovak press after the All star game about KHL Expansion?

Interview with Medvedev in Slovak language

There are few important info..
1.) 3 teams are joining next year (Jokerit, Sochi, Lada)
2.) There are many clubs which want to join KHL. We have interest in clubs from Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, Belarus and Kazakhstan
3.) After one last place will be filled, expansion is over (32 teams).

 

[cska78]

Did you read the interview with A Medvedev to Slovak press after the All star game about KHL Expansion?

Interview with Medvedev in Slovak language

There are few important info..
1.) 3 teams are joining next year (Jokerit, Sochi, Lada)
2.) There are many clubs which want to join KHL. We have interest in clubs from Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, Belarus and Kazakhstan
3.) After one last place will be filled, expansion is over (32 teams).

I wouldn't bet on Lada. Where on earth will the two Russian teams get Russian players???? Sochi doesn't have a single player yet, and Lada doesn't have much talent on the roster either.

 

[martin1983]

I wouldn't bet on Lada. Where on earth will the two Russian teams get Russian players???? Sochi doesn't have a single player yet, and Lada doesn't have much talent on the roster either.

I just pointed out what A. Medvedev said about KHL Expansion in that interview published today..

 

[Ivan94]

I wouldn't bet on Lada. Where on earth will the two Russian teams get Russian players???? Sochi doesn't have a single player yet, and Lada doesn't have much talent on the roster either.

two options: increase number of foreigners at russian teams or drop 2 russian teams for the new ones.

 

[bobbeaver]

I just pointed out what A. Medvedev said about KHL Expansion in that interview published today..

He does tend to say alot and change his mind alot aswell lol In this year alone i think it was first the idea of 64 teams, than it was 32 teams with 16 foreign 16 home teams, now its this. Mind you its tactics aswell. I still believe KHL wants the other strong EU teams to raise the overall quality of play. Like CSKA78 said to many russian teams with current import laws would water down the quality. Only teams from a country with a fresh player pool would do that.

 

[cska78]

two options: increase number of foreigners at russian teams or drop 2 russian teams for the new ones.

imho - players from the KHL-countries are not foreigners and that solves the problem.

 

[bobbeaver]

That wount be allowed. Not while KHL answers to the russian hockey federation. In their opinion it would stunt the growth of russian talent that stay in russia. plus it might deplete local player pool for the clubs in question and you could kiss goodby any chance of haveing a swedish club or a swiss club or a DEL club in KHL as they would see it as possible drain of their talent and players from their national strong leagues.

 

[martin1983]

That wount be allowed

Are you sure? Mr. Vladimir Shalaev confirmed to rsports.ru that it is one of possibilities..

 

[bobbeaver]

Ofc i dont have proof but im pretty sure. I mean if they have any sense of strategy they should wait after they get all the clubs from countries they want before they do this. Tretiak wouldnt allow it lol i think they will just add one more possible foreigner to increase quality. They still want to mainly develope Russian talent, if they fill up with foreing players there will be less place to take chances on young talent. Ofc this should be what VHL is for but that league is not exactly a farm league (most clubs are not affiliates fo KHL clubs) and not a "second division" either. They need to decide what VHL exactly is before they say all KHL countries are not foreigners. Also VHL needs to be much more competitive for russian talent not want to go to the CHL and stay to play MHL and than VHL before they go to KHL. For now the lure is that top talent can play in the KHL straight away almost. i mean one of their main goals is for russian (and other nations ) talent to stay and play in KHL.

 

[Jussi]

Are you sure? Mr. Vladimir Shalaev confirmed to rsports.ru that it is one of possibilities..

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=77426283&postcount=17

 

[martin1983]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/sh...3&postcount=17

And? Law can be changed.. In this case it's just a question of whether it is beneficial..

Let's count a little:
- Limit of Foreigners is 5
- 21 Russian teams in this season
- all teams needs at least 26 players (that's 21 Russians players and 5 Foreigners)

21 * 21= 441 Russian players in KHL

In next season, if they increase the limit
- Limit of Foreigners is 6 (or more)
- 23 Russian teams (+ Sochi, Lada)
- all teams still needs at least 26 (20RP + 6FP)

23 * 20= 460 Russian players in KHL

You see what I mean? More Russian teams = more Russian players, higher foreigner limit = more space for (quality) foreigners. FHR will be satisfied, number of Russian players will increase but KHL still reaches its target..

Note: It's funny that no one believes to mr. Medvedev's words from that interview..

 

[Ivan94]

next question: 4 new teams: Lada to the East - Sochi, Jokerit and the 3rd team to the west.
who will move into eastern conference? Loko, Servestal or even a team from moscow?

 

[pulverapa]

Did you read the interview with A Medvedev to Slovak press after the All star game about KHL Expansion?

Interview with Medvedev in Slovak language

There are few important info..
1.) 3 teams are joining next year (Jokerit, Sochi, Lada)
2.) There are many clubs which want to join KHL. We have interest in clubs from Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, Belarus and Kazakhstan
3.) After one last place will be filled, expansion is over (32 teams).

There are no Swedish clubs interested at the moment. It is true that they are discussing possibilities, but as of right now, no team in the country would want to join. It's complete ******** by mr. Medvedev, (whom I btw have spoken to a couple of years ago...)

 

[Exarz]

next question: 4 new teams: Lada to the East - Sochi, Jokerit and the 3rd team to the west.
who will move into eastern conference? Loko, Servestal or even a team from moscow?

Yaroslavl is more to the east than Cherepovets, so I guess Yaroslavl would move to the eastern conference (which is weird enough!)

 

[Ivan94]

next question: how could the schedule look like?

single round robin: 2 x 31= 62 games

or

just one game against the other conference: 1 x 16 = 16 games
+ 2 games against other division in same conference: 2 x 8 = 16 games
+ 4 games in your division: 4 x 7 = 28 games_______________
16 + 16 + 28 = 60 games


is there another option?

 

[martin1983]

There are no Swedish clubs interested at the moment. It is true that they are discussing possibilities, but as of right now, no team in the country would want to join. It's complete ******** by mr. Medvedev, (whom I btw have spoken to a couple of years ago...)

This is funny, this is exactly what Finns were saying..

next question: 4 new teams: Lada to the East - Sochi, Jokerit and the 3rd team to the west.
who will move into eastern conference? Loko, Servestal or even a team from moscow?

Based on the map, they should split it like this
KHL team map 2014

Blues - west
Red - east

is there another option?

For example:

4 games in your division: 4 x 7 = 28 games
2 games all others: 2*24 = 48
28 + 48 = 76 games

I prefer more games, but I heard something about 62 games, so your scenario is more likely..

 

[Ivan94]

There are few more questions.. for example if there will be fourth team in next season.

Based on the map, they should split it like this
KHL team map 2014

Blues - west
Red - east


For example:

4 games in your division: 4 x 7 = 28 games
2 games all others: 2*24 = 48
28 + 48 = 76 games

I prefer more games, but I heard something about 62 games, so your scenario is more likely..

vladivostok + riga aren´t on the mep + torpedo is in eastern conference

 

[Exarz]

Ivan: In my opinion, I think you should play every team twice - one home and one away game, even though it will be hard in the future, due to the geographical part.. To make it the best from the geographical part, I believe this is the best option

just one game against the other conference: 1 x 16 = 16 games
+ 2 games against other division in same conference: 2 x 8 = 16 games
+ 4 games in your division: 4 x 7 = 28 games
_______________
16 + 16 + 28 = 60 games

Martin: Why is Dinamo Riga in the eastern conference?

 

[martin1983]

vladivostok + riga aren´t on the mep + torpedo is in eastern conference

Yes I know it, I have already edited it

Why is Dinamo Riga in the eastern conference?

There was little mistake in Dinamo and Admiral. I created this map as the tool because I wanted to see where teams are located..