TBN: KeyBank Center upgrades
- Thread starter Jacob582
- Start date
Eh, it's WNY and NY in general - there will be cost overruns as people line their pockets and look the other way. Shop stewards, councilmen, suppliers, friends of friends will all wind up with surprise brick barbeques in their back yards while the rest of the locals pay for it. And it'll be shoddy work, done without pride but with a massive chip of entitlement.
Granted, that could be the 40-ish years of living there speaking.
There are places that have owners who foot the bill on these things themselves, but this is Buffalo, the relocation whispers I'm sure will at least mildly make some momentarily concerned by the possibility of it even if it is a hallow threat delivered via backchannels to traditional media. I'm half expecting it to be something PHam or MHarharhar put into an upcoming article/report/editoral.
Beerz
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- Jun 28, 2011
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sabremike
Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
The terrifying thing is that after the debacle with the throwball stadium it's likely that the state and local government call his bluff and then a relocation becomes a real possibility (particularly after the expansion ponzi scheme runs it's course).
I would think an astute want-to-be owner would be trying to pry Arizona out of the league's hands for less than what an expansion fee is though the league's moneyed owners are going to want to stay latched to the gold vein that is the expansion fee distribution. The owners get to leach that fee without it ever hitting the player money pool.
A few thoughts:
The Pegula's can't threaten to move the team. The team staying in Buffalo was a clause in the sale (that is supposed to survive through to the next owner after the Pegulas), so that in a null issue.
And even if they got approval today for a new arena, it's doubtful it's breaking ground until 2027/2028 given the resources tied up in the Bills projects. So really, we wouldn't see a new arena until 2030 at the very earliest, and that is on an almost impossible time line. I think we can cross that off the wishlist for a bit.
And the Sabres lease deal expires in 2027, so its doubtful we will see major investment until that is settled business as well.
The reality of it is, the majority of the Pegula's liquidity is likely tied up in potential overruns of the Bills stadium. They are on the hook for 100% of that and its rumored the stadium is already 300M+ over budget.
I think any real investments in the Sabres arena will be equivalent of a new coat of paint for the next few years. After the Bills stadium is finished, I think we can probably have a nuanced discussion on whether to build new or refurbish the First Niagara Arena. Given the volume of holdings the Pegula family has immediately surrounding the arena (practice arena, hotel, etc), we'll likely see a major refurb to push a new stadium discussion for the duration of the lease.
I think the requirements for real investment in fixing it:
1. The Sabres are revenue neutral (meaning, running at 90% capacity with a playoff round or more of revenue most years).
2. The Sabres lease deal is settled and they have cost certainty.
3. The Pegula's money isn't tied up in overages of the Bills stadium.
Until then, I wouldn't cross my fingers for better seats or major improvements.
The Pegula's safest ROI is returning the Sabres team to being a consistent playoff team. That will drive revenues more than any investment of the stadium. But that involves paying for a competent front office, an investment they have refused to make so far.
The Pegula's can't threaten to move the team. The team staying in Buffalo was a clause in the sale (that is supposed to survive through to the next owner after the Pegulas), so that in a null issue.
And even if they got approval today for a new arena, it's doubtful it's breaking ground until 2027/2028 given the resources tied up in the Bills projects. So really, we wouldn't see a new arena until 2030 at the very earliest, and that is on an almost impossible time line. I think we can cross that off the wishlist for a bit.
And the Sabres lease deal expires in 2027, so its doubtful we will see major investment until that is settled business as well.
The reality of it is, the majority of the Pegula's liquidity is likely tied up in potential overruns of the Bills stadium. They are on the hook for 100% of that and its rumored the stadium is already 300M+ over budget.
I think any real investments in the Sabres arena will be equivalent of a new coat of paint for the next few years. After the Bills stadium is finished, I think we can probably have a nuanced discussion on whether to build new or refurbish the First Niagara Arena. Given the volume of holdings the Pegula family has immediately surrounding the arena (practice arena, hotel, etc), we'll likely see a major refurb to push a new stadium discussion for the duration of the lease.
I think the requirements for real investment in fixing it:
1. The Sabres are revenue neutral (meaning, running at 90% capacity with a playoff round or more of revenue most years).
2. The Sabres lease deal is settled and they have cost certainty.
3. The Pegula's money isn't tied up in overages of the Bills stadium.
Until then, I wouldn't cross my fingers for better seats or major improvements.
The Pegula's safest ROI is returning the Sabres team to being a consistent playoff team. That will drive revenues more than any investment of the stadium. But that involves paying for a competent front office, an investment they have refused to make so far.
beerme1
Registered User
- Jun 27, 2011
- 949
- 488
Ever see when it's raining the have a pail on someone's seat to catch drips coming from the roof? I have. So fixing the roof actually is a thing too but any money put into the building is just wasted money. I'm sure their surveys indicated peoples preference would be a new building.
But they have no need to listen to us.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
We need to know how much Pegula is spending out of pocket on these so we can properly make a determination on whether he is being cheap or not.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
May Day 10
Registered User
Zman5778
Moderator
Tentpole event?
My bet is that there's official announcement that the Draft Combine will make its permanent home in Buffalo for X years (thinking like 10ish).
MeenOlViks
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Beerz
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- Jun 28, 2011
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For reference the video board at Little Ceasars Arena in Detroit is 28x43.5
So it is confirmed Terry is cheap
Two sided tape isn't that expensive
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
MOGlLNY
Registered User
- Jan 5, 2008
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No snarky comments from me
Fans deserve a better experience and this is a step in that direction that I'm happy people are getting. Now get the seating fixed ASAP.
It's them playing in Europe
sabremike
Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
Replace all the seats with new ones in the color patterns of the old Aud.
BuffaloMango
Registered User
- Mar 14, 2023
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I believe that Terry asked for the local gov to pay for this a year or two ago and the county kicked back with "Check the lease agreement my guy. This is all you".
The scoreboard was replaced in 2007. Daktronics, the vendor who made it, gives their DVLED a life expectancy of 10 years. We are pushing year 17. To twist the knife further, Golisano, who was openly cheap, replaced the scoreboard after 11 years (96-07).
Boston just spent something crazy on upgrading their jumbotron and acoustics. The Buffalo News has reported a number of times that full scale arena upgrades would be $150M or more. I suspect the roof and jumbotron will come in at ~$15M-ish. So about 10-20% of estimated cost.
Terry is 100% cheaping out. The org is just selling this as "upgrades" rather than the "contractually obligated replacements" that the roof and jumbotron actually are.
Doug Prishpreed
Registered User
sabremike
Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
You know they can't do all the planned upgrades in one offseason right
Great.
Now everyone can watch two uncomfortable people have to kiss each other on a gigantic screen.
Bring back the old Aud scoreboard.
Now everyone can watch two uncomfortable people have to kiss each other on a gigantic screen.
Bring back the old Aud scoreboard.
