News Article: Kevin Maxwell and Chris Morehouse leave the Rangers

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So Drury finished gutting the entire scouting department.

That's not what happened. They were approached by other teams for better positions. They weren't fired.

 

[Boris Zubov]

This is such a narrow-minded view. Just because someone was a good player, doesn't mean they're good at developing other players.

The same is true the other way around. Tanner Glass and Jed Ortmeyer's skills on the ice are not really indicative of their ability to help others develop. That doesn't mean they'er good at it per se, but this notion that a 4th liner by definition cannot develop top prospects is flawed.

Maybe, but their results thus far have been telling.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Maybe, but their results thus far have been telling.

That's not the point.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

That's not what happened. They were approached by other teams for better positions. They weren't fired.

My comment wasn't meant as a negative, by the way. I feel like that was something missing from when Gorton took over was that they still kept the same head scouts. Drury should be allowed to put his own hires in those spots because he has a different mindset than Gorton. When the front office change happened and they wanted to changes top to bottom this was a part of it. Different scouting philosophies and minds otherwise it's still bringing in the same kind of players and then nothing really changes.

 

[bobbop]

My comment wasn't meant as a negative, by the way. I feel like that was something missing from when Gorton took over was that they still kept the same head scouts. Drury should be allowed to put his own hires in those spots because he has a different mindset than Gorton. When the front office change happened and they wanted to changes top to bottom this was a part of it. Different scouting philosophies and minds otherwise it's still bringing in the same kind of players and then nothing really changes.

Gorton had put a lot of the superstructure in place when he replaced Sather. Slats was barely awake the last few years before he officially retired. Switch to Drury was much different.

 

[n8]

Not sad since our scouting department's 1st round draft pick record is abysmal. I think we have like 2 players with over 500+ point played in the last 30 years from all rounds. Derek Stepan and Marc Savard. 500+ games list is JT Miller, Kreider, Fast, MDZ, Stepan, Weise, Anisimov, Staal, Korpikoski, Dubinsky, Callahan, Tyutin, Zidlicky, Dominic Moore, Henke, Malhotra, Mike York, Savard, Eric Boulton, Sundstrom, and Marchment. That's 0.7 decent NHL players a year. I dunno, maybe that's actually good? Sounds like a garbage number to me.

 

[nyr2k2]

Not sad since our scouting department's 1st round draft pick record is abysmal. I think we have like 2 players with over 500+ point played in the last 30 years from all rounds. Derek Stepan and Marc Savard. 500+ games list is JT Miller, Kreider, Fast, MDZ, Stepan, Weise, Anisimov, Staal, Korpikoski, Dubinsky, Callahan, Tyutin, Zidlicky, Dominic Moore, Henke, Malhotra, Mike York, Savard, Eric Boulton, Sundstrom, and Marchment. That's 0.7 decent NHL players a year. I dunno, maybe that's actually good? Sounds like a garbage number to me.

The team's record at drafting quality NHL players, at least in the past couple decades, is pretty strong. They have failed to draft true star-caliber skaters, for sure, but we've done a pretty consistently good job churning out players with picks from the mid and late rounds.

Really, it's the McIlrath and Jessiman picks (particularly the latter) that color the perception of the terrible drafting. Had they drafted Tarasenko instead of McIlrath, like all the fans wanted, and picked basically any player other than Jessiman--then I think most people would look at this organization as one that drafts well. Like keep all the players the same but swap the two I mentioned for Tarasenko and one of Getzlaf, Dustin Brown, or Parise, and it probably seems way better. I'm not suggesting anyone excuse or overlook those picks, I just think it's really interesting how two high-profile whiffs in 20 or so years really makes everything look so bad.

 

[CanadienShark]

Hey guys, Sharks fan here (obviously). What are your thoughts on Morehouse? I don't know the guy at all. Any insight would be appreciated!

 

[doomscroll]

When Tanner Glass is helping these prospects I am not expecting much sadly. They need guys with more skill to develop them. Imagine if Othmann has a Tanner Glass type of career.

Gretzky was a terrible coach, and Phil Esposito was a terrible GM. It obviously remains to be seen whether the current crop of young Rangers is successful, but you don’t play over 500 games in the NHL In the modern era without understanding the skillset and mentality required to succeed. Scotty Bowman never even played professional hockey and he read the game as well as well as anyone during his time as a coach.

 

[n8]

The team's record at drafting quality NHL players, at least in the past couple decades, is pretty strong. They have failed to draft true star-caliber skaters, for sure, but we've done a pretty consistently good job churning out players with picks from the mid and late rounds.

Really, it's the McIlrath and Jessiman picks (particularly the latter) that color the perception of the terrible drafting. Had they drafted Tarasenko instead of McIlrath, like all the fans wanted, and picked basically any player other than Jessiman--then I think most people would look at this organization as one that drafts well. Like keep all the players the same but swap the two I mentioned for Tarasenko and one of Getzlaf, Dustin Brown, or Parise, and it probably seems way better. I'm not suggesting anyone excuse or overlook those picks, I just think it's really interesting how two high-profile whiffs in 20 or so years really makes everything look so bad.

quick cursory look - Devils have 8 players with 500+ points in the last 30 years to our measly 2. Devils have only 18 players with 500+ games to our 21 but at a delta of only 3, I'd much prefer 4x the amount of 500+ point players.

The islanders have 7 players with 500+ points, 30 players with 500+ games
The flyers have 8 players with 500+ points, only 16 players with 500+ games
So I think two players with 500+ points in the last 30 years for the Rangers is quite abysmal as a historic record of our drafting. Give us a score of 3 for Henke. Sure we have some good players of late but I don't think that absolves the organization from a history of mediocrity at the draft table.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Gretzky was a terrible coach, and Phil Esposito was a terrible GM. It obviously remains to be seen whether the current crop of young Rangers is successful, but you don’t play over 500 games in the NHL In the modern era without understanding the skillset and mentality required to succeed. Scotty Bowman never even played professional hockey and he read the game as well as well as anyone during his time as a coach.

Exactly!

The Tampa Bay Lighting are a prime example of a team that develops players well, right?

I'd consider them the cream of the crop in that regard. Anyone want to guess who their director of player development is? Stacy Roest, who played less in the NHL than either Tanner Glass or Jed Ortmeyer.

Colorado Avalanche? Brian Wilshie
Carolina Hurricanes? Peter Harrold, Jason Muzzatti, Sergei Samsonov
Detroit Red Wings? Shawn Horcoff and Daniel Cleary
Dallas Stars? J.J. McQueen, Stephen Greely, Pär Johansson

Sergei Samsonov and Shawn Horcoff had decent seasons as a player in the NHL but hardly the stars some people want to be in charge of player development, yet they're among the most successful in the league. Some of the names here didn't even play in the NHL.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Avalanche promote Chris MacFarland to GM. He hired Kevin McDonald from the Blues as his AGM. McDonald worked for the Rangers as a communications/PR guy. Neil Smith got him involved with pro scouting. McDonald joined the Blues after the Rangers fired Smith. He stayed with the Rangers for one season under Glen Sather before leaving. McDonald was the Blues director of pro scouting before getting promoted to AGM/running the AHL team. MacFarland is from NY. He went to Pace. He got his start in The NHL offices. McFarland probably knew McDonald from NY. Did the Blues hire Maxwell as an AGM?

Mike Grier gets the San Jose GM job. He hired Chris Morehouse to run the amateur scouting department.

If MacFarland does not get promoted in Colorado and Grier doesn't get the San Jose GM job, Maxwell and Morehouse would probably still be part of the Rangers organization.

Ryan Clowe is not listed on the Rangers website. He was a hockey advisor.

McDonald went to the Blues because Larry Pleau was the GM. Pleau had been an AGM under Smith before getting the Blues GM job in 1997. The Blues were sold to a group which included Dave Checketts. He knew McDonald from NY. Checketts hired John Davidson to run the Blues. McDonald gets promoted. JD knew McDonald from NY.

Who do you know?

 

[leetch99]

quick cursory look - Devils have 8 players with 500+ points in the last 30 years to our measly 2. Devils have only 18 players with 500+ games to our 21 but at a delta of only 3, I'd much prefer 4x the amount of 500+ point players.

The islanders have 7 players with 500+ points, 30 players with 500+ games
The flyers have 8 players with 500+ points, only 16 players with 500+ games
So I think two players with 500+ points in the last 30 years for the Rangers is quite abysmal as a historic record of our drafting. Give us a score of 3 for Henke. Sure we have some good players of late but I don't think that absolves the organization from a history of mediocrity at the draft table.

Moral of the story is do not trade away your draft picks or ye will have no franchise 500 pt scorers that were home grown. Every team out there has at least 2 blown first rounders.....maybe more . Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Moral of the story is do not trade away your draft picks or ye will have no franchise 500 pt scorers that were home grown. Every team out there has at least 2 blown first rounders.....maybe more . Correct me if I am wrong.

Everyone always raves about the Tampa Bay Lightning but they also picked Brett Connolly and Slater Koekkoek in the top-10. No team is perfect.

 

[RangerBoy]

Everyone always raves about the Tampa Bay Lightning but they also picked Brett Connolly and Slater Koekkoek in the top-10. No team is perfect.

Cal Foote in 2017 over Josh Norris and Robert Thomas. Foote was a late lottery pick at #14.

 

[Boris Zubov]

That's not the point.

Doesn't mean we couldn't use an upgrade in our player development staff.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Doesn't mean we couldn't use an upgrade in our player development staff.

Ok, who would you target to replace them?

 

[n8]

Moral of the story is do not trade away your draft picks or ye will have no franchise 500 pt scorers that were home grown. Every team out there has at least 2 blown first rounders.....maybe more . Correct me if I am wrong.

I think that goes without saying. But note from my original list, Derek Stepan and Marc Savard aren't even 1st round picks so if you want to narrow the lense, the Rangers have ZERO 500+ point players drafted in the first round in the last 30 years. JT Miller and Chris Kreider will probably break that curse soon enough though but that is a frightening fact about our drafting.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think that goes without saying. But note from my original list, Derek Stepan and Marc Savard aren't even 1st round picks so if you want to narrow the lense, the Rangers have ZERO 500+ point players drafted in the first round in the last 30 years. JT Miller and Chris Kreider will probably break that curse soon enough though but that is a frightening fact about our drafting.

Last season, Kreider became the first Rangers draft pick to score 30 goals for this team since Tony Amonte.

That's telling.

 

[leetch99]

Ok, who would you target to replace them?

I think we should have the largest far reaching scouting staff in the league considering the franchise value . We should be turning over every rock for a prospect . We need Euro scouts and junior scouts and college scouts along with of course our NHL scouts ......we need scouting reports and visual on every player ....LOL.....and maybe you can have too many ?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think we should have the largest far reaching scouting staff in the league considering the franchise value . We should be turning over every rock for a prospect . We need Euro scouts and junior scouts and college scouts along with of course our NHL scouts ......we need scouting reports and visual on every player ....LOL.....and maybe you can have too many ?

The Rangers may be the most valuable franchise in the league but they aren't the biggest. Attracting the best scouts/coaches is about more than just having the money.

Anyway, my point is: If Glass and Ortmeyer aren't doing a good job, where's the evidence? And if it's true, who do people think is a better candidate for those roles? Because if there's one thing I've realized, it's that it isn't simply about hiring whoever the best player was. It's far more complicated than that.

 

[will1066]

Guessing Drury didn't have enough time last season to replace both the amateur and pro scouting departments. Drury prefers the freshly roasted, freshly ground, Italian press coffee and the writing was on the wall for these two guys.

Drury felt that he had squeezed Maxwell down to the last drop, and it was time for him to go. The feeling was mutual for Maxwell, but he thanked Drury for giving him his cup of coffee in the bigs.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The team's record at drafting quality NHL players, at least in the past couple decades, is pretty strong. They have failed to draft true star-caliber skaters, for sure, but we've done a pretty consistently good job churning out players with picks from the mid and late rounds.

Really, it's the McIlrath and Jessiman picks (particularly the latter) that color the perception of the terrible drafting. Had they drafted Tarasenko instead of McIlrath, like all the fans wanted, and picked basically any player other than Jessiman--then I think most people would look at this organization as one that drafts well. Like keep all the players the same but swap the two I mentioned for Tarasenko and one of Getzlaf, Dustin Brown, or Parise, and it probably seems way better. I'm not suggesting anyone excuse or overlook those picks, I just think it's really interesting how two high-profile whiffs in 20 or so years really makes everything look so bad.

Lias Andersson is just as bad as Jessiman or McIlrath

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Lias Andersson is just as bad as Jessiman or McIlrath

Meh. The big difference is that in that 2017 draft, the obvious candidates haven't really proven to be significantly better.

With McIlrath, we're talking about missing out on Jaden Schwartz, Vladimir, Tarasenko, Evgeny Kuznetsov and Cam Fowler.

With Jessiman, it's Zach Parise, Ryan Getzlaf, Dustin Brown, Brent Seabrook and Brent Burns.

The 2017 draft, we missed out on Casey Mittelstadt, Owen Tippett, Gabriel Vilardi and Michael Rasmussen. While better than Lias Andersson, hardly on the same level as those others. And those 4 were in the conversation for that 7th overall pick. Yeah, it was a bad pick but even if we had gone based on the most common draft rankings we still wouldn't have a top-6 player. Guys like Suzuki, Thomas or Norris.

Lias Andersson was ranked higher than Miro Heiskanen by the way.

 

[nyr2k2]

Lias Andersson is just as bad as Jessiman or McIlrath

He was bad, but the Jessiman pick will always be unmatched because of the sheer quality of basically all of the other players taken around him.

With McIlrath, the quality of his respective first round was less than for Jessiman, so it seems relatively less bad.

I wouldn't put Andersson with either of them--yet--because the other guys that seemed like realistic options where he was picked don't really look special, for the most part. Andersson is also still young enough that he could turn himself into a useful part (not worth the #7 OA, but still) and look like less of a complete waste. I mean maybe he never plays another NHL game, in which case he'd definitely be in McIlrath territory, but the rest of his class will never be good enough to put him in the Jessiman sphere IMO.