Rumor: Kevin Hayes

[GoNordiquesGo]

Not going to go into depth on this yet again, but there absolutely is a hurry to avoid becoming the next Winnipeg, and that ticking clock is the MacKinnon contract and the golden cap window it creates for us.

Cores that are ever going to "arrive" pretty much always arrive before they are "supposed to", so the time was right last summer; when they proved they were ready to take those next steps but needed help on the 2nd line and Makar to join the fun. It's also right this summer, so hopefully Joe does better this time around.

With hindsight you can say that the time was right last summer. But they also thought they were ready a few years ago, made some moves and crashed afterward. So it seemed right to wait for another year before really feeling ready. So this offseason really is, in my opinion, the first off season where the the time is right to make more aggressive moves. And that is exactly what Sakic said he would do. I think he was patient when it was prudent and appropriate to be and he will be more aggressive now that the clock has started. But then again, that remains to be seen... So lets hope that he pulls the right move, because, I will also be disapointed if nothing gets done to adress the second line issue this summer.

 

[lonelybadger]

With hindsight you can say that the time was right last summer. But they also thought they were ready a few years ago, made some moves and crashed afterward. So it seemed right to wait for another year before really feeling ready. So this offseason really is, in my opinion, the first off season where the the time is right to make more aggressive moves. And that is exactly what Sakic said he would do. I think he was patient when it was prudent and appropriate to be and he will be more aggressive now that the clock has started. But then again, that remains to be seen... So lets hope that he pulls the right move, because, I will also be disapointed if nothing gets done to adress the second line issue this summer.

Great post!

Hayes, Kadri, Skinner, Panarin, even Miller. The scoring help is there, Sakic needs to take it.

 

[5280]

I’ve seen some negative and positive on Joe on this board. Here’s my take. The reality is, he just built a team that was a game away from going to the Western Conference Final. And if it wasn’t for that offside, who knows what would have happened with the season.

Did he have to pick MacKinnon? Nope. Seth Jones had an excellent World Junior and a lot of people would have been fine if he was the pick.

Did he have to pick Rantanen? Nope. Can you imagine where this franchise would be had he taken Lawson Crouse?

Groo, for a second round pick looks pretty darn good to me.

The Landeskog and Mack contracts are excellent.

How about that Makar kid? You could definitely argue Petterson, but I’m pretty happy with Cale.

The Duchene trade was good. Yes, it’s taken a while, but when the assets are starting to come in now.

Does he need to get better at drafting outside of the first round? Absolutely. But, I think he’s improving and I’m very pleased with what he’s done.

Let’s let the offseason play out and see what he can do to address offensive depth.

Come on, all of that fell into his lap!

 

[henchman21]

Wait, what? Since when did the league start becoming open about its behind closed doors prohibited contract discussions? Wow.

It has never been ‘open,’ but there are plenty of slip ups that happen.

 

[Balthazar]

Wait, what? Since when did the league start becoming open about its behind closed doors prohibited contract discussions? Wow.

According to Friedman, Winnipeg gave permission to certain teams to discuss with the Hayes' camp. Jets knew they weren't keeping him so they tried to trade him for the best pick possible and needed to create demand.

When Philly traded for him they already knew what he wanted and if he wanted to play there. I'd be very surprised if they fail to sign him.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

According to Friedman, Winnipeg gave permission to certain teams to discuss with the Hayes' camp. Jets knew they weren't keeping him so they tried to trade him for the best pick possible and needed to create demand.

When Philly traded for him they already knew what he wanted and if he wanted to play there. I'd be very surprised if they fail to sign him.

Had no idea he was traded... didn't see it on the trades forum. Shows how much I pay attention outside HF...

 

[lonelybadger]

If Hayes in Philly was such a slam dunk you think he would have signed by now.

 

[cgf]

With hindsight you can say that the time was right last summer. But they also thought they were ready a few years ago, made some moves and crashed afterward. So it seemed right to wait for another year before really feeling ready. So this offseason really is, in my opinion, the first off season where the the time is right to make more aggressive moves. And that is exactly what Sakic said he would do. I think he was patient when it was prudent and appropriate to be and he will be more aggressive now that the clock has started. But then again, that remains to be seen... So lets hope that he pulls the right move, because, I will also be disapointed if nothing gets done to adress the second line issue this summer.

Too many of us were calling for it to say that it required hindsight to realize the team needed to address its second line last summer. Things were different from 2014, which is why so many of us who had called for patience after Varly dragged us to the central crown in 2014 were calling for proactivity last summer.

But like I've repeatedly said, Joe still has a couple of months before we can start to judge him, so let's cross our fingers & see what he does.

 

[Foxtail]

According to Friedman, Winnipeg gave permission to certain teams to discuss with the Hayes' camp. Jets knew they weren't keeping him so they tried to trade him for the best pick possible and needed to create demand.

When Philly traded for him they already knew what he wanted and if he wanted to play there. I'd be very surprised if they fail to sign him.

Yeah plus it fits his east coast prerequisite I'd be shocked if he doesn't sign there

 

[Foxtail]

Too many of us were calling for it to say that it required hindsight to realize the team needed to address its second line last summer. Things were different from 2014, which is why so many of us who had called for patience after Varly dragged us to the central crown in 2014 were calling for proactivity last summer.

But like I've repeatedly said, Joe still has a couple of months before we can start to judge him, so let's cross our fingers & see what he does.

Too many but not all were calling for it .
I'd still prefer a Johansson type signing or posiibly 2 of that nature which I believe us the plan .

We have our stars I don't see it being a Panarin type.

Already have our stars and gonna have to pay them

 

[Cousin Eddie]

If Hayes in Philly was such a slam dunk you think he would have signed by now.

Was never a slam dunk. Philly acquired his rights with zero prior communication with Hayes camp.

 

[Ivan13]

According to Friedman, Winnipeg gave permission to certain teams to discuss with the Hayes' camp. Jets knew they weren't keeping him so they tried to trade him for the best pick possible and needed to create demand.

When Philly traded for him they already knew what he wanted and if he wanted to play there. I'd be very surprised if they fail to sign him.

It was reported there was no discussion between Hayes and Philly before the trade.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Was never a slam dunk. Philly acquired his rights with zero prior communication with Hayes camp.

Did they? I thought it was reported that they had let teams talk to him prior? That is where you get the idea that the Avs pulled back after it looked like it would take longer than 5 years.

Other teams talked to him, but Philly went in completely blind?

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Come on, all of that fell into his lap!

How could he have done this while sleeping?

 

[Barklez]

It's just such a confusing link. It's like your buddy invites you over, and he goes out of his way to tell you that the box of chocolates on the counter isn't for you but this girl he's got a date with. Dude, I don't care, I didn't want the chocolates.

Seems oddly specific there Soundwave...

As long as we enter October 2019 with some legit new additions, I'm happy. Getting help doesn't end with not getting Hayes.

Thank you!

In CGF’s defense Mack said he won’t be patient much longer last year.

Uh, where?



People need to let go of the 2C fixation. Do we need a long term solution? Sure. Are there other ways to have an adequate 2nd line next year? Absolutely.

If Sakic ends up not patching up the 2nd line then there is absolutely cause for concern and discontent. If there are better winger options available and they choose to go that route with Jost/Landy at 2C it’s pretty unreasonable IMO to be upset just because there isn’t a new name in the 2C hole. In all likelihood, the plan is to shoot for a high-end/elite winger or two and wait for Turcotte/Zegras/Dach to fill the 2C longterm.

Hayes wasn’t the be-all-end-all. If Sakic does nothing by all means light your torches but until then let’s just see how FA and the trade market shakes out, there’s lots of time before it’s time to worry.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Uh, where?

It was in an article last offseason.

 

[Barklez]

It was in an article last offseason.


View attachment 234151

Thanks for digging that up.

I mean, he’s obviously in the loop about the plan. I don’t think he’ll be upset if they swing and miss on the guys they want and then not panic and scramble for Hayes-shaped leftovers.

Everything we’ve heard from inside the org is that Sakic has been up front with the core guys and everyone seems to be on the same page. I don’t think that quote implies any different.

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm more along the lines of really hoping they address the scoring depth issues. While a legit 2C would be ideal, there really isn't one out there at present. But yeah, I'm hoping they land a solid scoring forward of SOME type this offseason.

 

[cgf]

I'm more along the lines of really hoping they address the scoring depth issues. While a legit 2C would be ideal, there really isn't one out there at present. But yeah, I'm hoping they land a solid scoring forward of SOME type this offseason.

But they don't just need a 2C, or a solid scoring forward. We need both...and a third solid scoring forward as well.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Did they? I thought it was reported that they had let teams talk to him prior? That is where you get the idea that the Avs pulled back after it looked like it would take longer than 5 years.

Other teams talked to him, but Philly went in completely blind?

Somebody posted a tweet on this site somewhere that said Philly had no prior conversations with Hayes.

Edit: My apologies. The tweet didnt say there were no prior conversations. It said there’s nothing in place

 

[Barklez]

But they don't just need a 2C, or a solid scoring forward. We need both...and a third solid scoring forward as well.

Telling yourself the Avs need two top 6 additions to take a step forward next season is both incorrect and setting yourself up for disappointment.

If you count Turcotte/Zegras joining at the end of the year then maybe it’s realistic but anything else is overstating the Avs needs and reaching for reasons to be unhappy with this offseason.

Very few teams have 6 players that are what most would consider quality top6 players. Given the quality of our big 3, one more high-end/elite option with a competent passenger/tweener rounding out the last spot on both scoring lines is significantly more likely to happen than conjuring two legit top 6ers this summer and is realistically enough for this group to contend next year - especially if 4OA joins for the playoff push and Makar plays at a top 4 level.

 

[cgf]

Telling yourself the Avs need two top 6 additions to take a step forward next season is both incorrect and setting yourself up for disappointment.

If you count Turcotte/Zegras joining at the end of the year then maybe it’s realistic but anything else is overstating the Avs needs and reaching for reasons to be unhappy with this offseason.

Very few teams have 6 players that are what most would consider quality top6 players. Given the quality of our big 3, one more high-end/elite option with a competent passenger/tweener rounding out the last spot on both scoring lines is significantly more likely to happen than conjuring two legit top 6ers this summer and is realistically enough for this group to contend next year - especially if 4OA joins for the playoff push and Makar plays at a top 4 level.

What's likely to happen isn't the same thing as what we need

I agree that we're unlikely to make the additions we need to see it happen, but that doesn't mean that we don't need more than 1 top 6er to ensure that only 1 of Jost/Kerfoot is penciled into a top 6 spot out of camp. It's not like I'm asking for 6 highend top 6ers, just that we have more than 4 capable ones.

And who cares about most teams? We want to win cups with this core, most teams don't do that. So I care about what we have the opportunity to build, and that's a lot more than what most teams ever get to.

 

[Barklez]

What's likely to happen isn't the same thing as what we need

I agree that we're unlikely to make the additions we need to see it happen, but that doesn't mean that we don't need more than 1 top 6er to ensure that only 1 of Jost/Kerfoot is penciled into a top 6 spot out of camp. It's not like I'm asking for 6 highend top 6ers, just that we have more than 4 capable ones.

And who cares about most teams? We want to win cups with this core, most teams don't do that. So I care about what we have the opportunity to build, and that's a lot more than what most teams ever get to.

Are you really going to make me go back through SC winners to show you how many didn't have 5+ "top 6 quality" players?

I'm saying while 2 would be great, realistically one good addition is enough for this group. No it wouldn't force both Jost and Kerfoot out of the top 6 automatically but the group we had this year managed. We wouldn't be heavy favourites for the cup next year but I don't think that's what any of us are shooting for is it? Aside from wanting to compete every year, realistically we want to take another step forward and be in the conversation for the cup and I think that group can get us there. If we add 1 high-end guy this summer and 4OA+ next summer that is perfectly adequate IMO.

Most of us might be pulling our hair out around here but if we rolled into next year with a top 6 of

Landy-MacK-BDK
Skinner-Jost-Rants

Most teams in our division would be concerned.

Now that's not to say Skinner/Panarin/whomever is realistic, but let things shake out and see who's available. It sounds like Sakic is hoping to snag a big-game trophy in FA but if he doesn't we do have reason to believe they'll go harder into the trade market this year than in years previous.

 

[cgf]

Are you really going to make me go back through SC winners to show you how many didn't have 5+ "top 6 quality" players?

I'm saying while 2 would be great, realistically one good addition is enough for this group. No it wouldn't force both Jost and Kerfoot out of the top 6 automatically but the group we had this year managed. We wouldn't be heavy favourites for the cup next year but I don't think that's what any of us are shooting for is it? Aside from wanting to compete every year, realistically we want to take another step forward and be in the conversation for the cup and I think that group can get us there. If we add 1 high-end guy this summer and 4OA+ next summer that is perfectly adequate IMO.

Most of us might be pulling our hair out around here but if we rolled into next year with a top 6 of

Landy-MacK-BDK
Skinner-Jost-Rants

Most teams in our division would be concerned.

Now that's not to say Skinner/Panarin/whomever is realistic, but let things shake out and see who's available. It sounds like Sakic is hoping to snag a big-game trophy in FA but if he doesn't we do have reason to believe they'll go harder into the trade market this year than in years previous.

Chicago & Pittsburgh had at least 2 legit top 6ers on top of their big 3s during their cup wins and LA had 4 legit top 6ers around Kopi with Carter, Brown, Richards & Williams the first time around and Carter, Williams, Brown/Toffoli & Gaborik the 2nd time

It's not like I'm asking for us to sign Panarin & trade for Drae...I've been talking about guys like Zucker / Kapanen / Dzingel / Donskoi / Connolly + a capable 2C. Which is absolutely doable with the tools at our disposal...and would've been supremely doable if we had gotten started on this last summer.

Now sure...if we added a highend 1st liner, then the supporting pieces need not be as good, but that's a different conversation...and again it wouldn't be a reason to stop there when we can afford a superstar & a capable top 6er. As those lines would look even better if they were:

Zucker - MacK - Mikko
Skinner - Landy - Jost

 

[Barklez]

Chicago & Pittsburgh had at least 2 legit top 6ers on top of their big 3s during their cup wins and LA had 4 legit top 6ers around Kopi with Carter, Brown, Richards & Williams the first time around and Carter, Williams, Brown/Toffoli & Gaborik the 2nd time

It's not like I'm asking for us to sign Panarin & trade for Drae...I've been talking about guys like Zucker / Kapanen / Dzingel / Donskoi / Connolly + a capable 2C. Which is absolutely doable with the tools at our disposal...and would've been supremely doable if we had gotten started on this last summer.

Now sure...if we added a highend 1st liner, then the supporting pieces need not be as good, but that's a different conversation...and again it wouldn't be a reason to stop there when we can afford a superstar & a capable top 6er. As those lines would look even better if they were:

Zucker - MacK - Mikko
Skinner - Landy - Jost

That's all well and good in a vacuum, but even in a world where we acquired a Stastny/Neal/whomever last summer I'd be shocked if Sakic then went and added another top6er this year.

I'm not a huge fan of either Jost or Kerfoot but from where I'm standing most of the guys you've listed are marginal upgrades on Jost/Kerfoot at best. Most of them bring different playstyles/elements than at least what Kerfoot does but I do think we have a tendency around here to think other team's *** stinks less than ours does.

Edit: You can make an argument for quantity over quality when it comes to these tweener guys but really I think that's just getting greedy after a certain point. I'd rather we go for some true bottom 6 energy/defensive specialists instead.