Player Discussion Kevin Fiala

[MuckOG]

Yeah, evaluation of a player isn't as easy as it might seem. Takes a lot experience and knowledge. Not surprised so many people struggle with it as badly as they do (including you two).

Fiala has played exactly 3 games with the Wild and from what I've observed, each game played incrementally better. Conditioning does NOT seem to be an issue with him. He is a strong skater and has better vision than I thought. I counted at least three scoring chances that he generated on his own and his play along the half wall on the PP was pretty good as well. Yes, I saw him turn the puck over as well, but my god, give him a little time to gel with the team. Not every new player is going to come in and score right way like Donato.

You can put me in the camp of those who thought we didn't get as much value from the trade as we should've, but let's not make stuff up about Fiala in order to cement that point.

 

[2Pair]

Yeah, evaluation of a player isn't as easy as it might seem. Takes a lot experience and knowledge. Not surprised so many people struggle with it as badly as they do (including you two).

You were saying something about fat and lazy? Pretty solid player evaluation there, bud.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Fiala gives me a very strong vibe of a player who is in bad shape. Just doesn't have the kind of stability and strength in his mobility you'd like to see. Kind of helter skelter on his skates. Seems to indicate at least weak core/high body fat.

Overall not a fan of this player. At least at this stage of his conditioning is a weak skater, with questionable hockey sense. A puck hog who isn't strong on the puck, is careless (couple brutal turnovers against Preds) and tries to dipsy-doodle through players. It's not very effective in the NHL especially with mediocre skating ability. Has slick hands and moves though, and a lot more rangy player than Granlund for example.

Bad shape? Weak core/high body fat? Even if those two had correlation with each other you can take one look at the guy and see he doesn’t have high body fat. Mediocre skating? buddy come one

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

How dare you all question the unemployed scout that posts on a message board.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

He looked really good last night at times outside of a few turnovers and him trying to do too much. Multiple good chances and flashed some real time speed on some entries to create chances. He's gotten better with each game he's been here. I think the points will come eventually but this nonsense about him being out of shape and a weak core is just ridiculous.

 

[absolute garbage]

Not sure how you see mediocre skating. The puck hog thing, I think he was just trying to do too much himself at times as I said previously. Hard to tell if it's a puck hog thing with such a small sample size.

I think he has okay hockey sense, at least offensively anyway... defensively he seems kind of lost at times. Better than Donato in that respect thus far though (though last night Donato actually showed signs of life defensively for a change).

Mediocre skating is pretty obvious to me. He isn't strong on the ice, his body control and crossovers or pivots don't look dynamic at all, and he doesn't have the kind of separation speed and explosiveness that you'd expect from a high scoring player. And obviously his production is pretty abysmal this year so he indeed isn't a high scoring player, and it all makes sense. There's absolutely no way a player with his hands would have 30 points in 60 games if he was a + skater too.

"Puck hogging" means not using his linemates particularly well which means lacking hockey sense. Offensive vision does not equal hockey sense, which is a common mistake people make when evaluating players. A guy who has a lot of skill and has been a scorer at every level is sure to have developed offensive vision and ability to see plays and angles just based on reps alone, but it doesn't necessarily mean he's a smart player.

He might be pressing too hard but again, that's also something that you can count as lacking hockey sense. From what I've seen he does have that trait even in non contract years, maybe not as badly as now but still.

Fiala has played exactly 3 games with the Wild and from what I've observed, each game played incrementally better. Conditioning does NOT seem to be an issue with him. He is a strong skater and has better vision than I thought. I counted at least three scoring chances that he generated on his own and his play along the half wall on the PP was pretty good as well. Yes, I saw him turn the puck over as well, but my god, give him a little time to gel with the team. Not every new player is going to come in and score right way like Donato.

You can put me in the camp of those who thought we didn't get as much value from the trade as we should've, but let's not make stuff up about Fiala in order to cement that point.

I'd agree he has improved, but that has nothing to do with conditioning. I'm talking about his skating. He reminds me a bit of Ekblad (notorious weak skater with body fat issues and lack of core strength) who has that same kind of flailing figure and lack of control. Addressed skating and vision above.

Bad shape? Weak core/high body fat? Even if those two had correlation with each other you can take one look at the guy and see he doesn’t have high body fat. Mediocre skating? buddy come one

Yeah, you actually can. Those are all linked together. I'm not 100% sure about it obviously, but from decades of experience with this sport that's what I'm seeing.

Thanks for that pic 2pair, it might actually back up my point perfectly. It's from 2017 summer, and I remember Fiala looking a lot more dynamic last season in his skating than this season. So it makes sense if he was in good shape almost 2 years ago, given he was much better last season than this.

 

[2Pair]

Impressive that you would double down on the stupid.

 

[Bazeek]

You were saying something about fat and lazy? Pretty solid player evaluation there, bud.

I worry about any player that still relies on Pomeranian-based training methods. Fiala needs to spend a summer with the Wild training staff and a more modern, Labradoodle-based approach.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Mediocre skating is pretty obvious to me. He isn't strong on the ice, his body control and crossovers or pivots don't look dynamic at all, and he doesn't have the kind of separation speed and explosiveness that you'd expect from a high scoring player. And obviously his production is pretty abysmal this year so he indeed isn't a high scoring player, and it all makes sense. There's absolutely no way a player with his hands would have 30 points in 60 games if he was a + skater too.

"Puck hogging" means not using his linemates particularly well which means lacking hockey sense. Offensive vision does not equal hockey sense, which is a common mistake people make when evaluating players. A guy who has a lot of skill and has been a scorer at every level is sure to have developed offensive vision and ability to see plays and angles just based on reps alone, but it doesn't necessarily mean he's a smart player.

He might be pressing too hard but again, that's also something that you can count as lacking hockey sense. From what I've seen he does have that trait even in non contract years, maybe not as badly as now but still.


I'd agree he has improved, but that has nothing to do with conditioning. I'm talking about his skating. He reminds me a bit of Ekblad (notorious weak skater with body fat issues and lack of core strength) who has that same kind of flailing figure and lack of control. Addressed skating and vision above.

Yeah, you actually can. Those are all linked together. I'm not 100% sure about it obviously, but from decades of experience with this sport that's what I'm seeing.

Thanks for that pic 2pair, it might actually back up my point perfectly. It's from 2017 summer, and I remember Fiala looking a lot more dynamic last season in his skating than this season. So it makes sense if he was in good shape almost 2 years ago, given he was much better last season than this.

It’s hysterical that you say his “cross-overs don’t look dynamic” as if your a accredited skating coach. I’m somewhat confused as to what you’ve been watching the past 3 games; his skating is very good. Not elite, but definitely not mediocre.

 

[57special]

Only Wild player to hug Lindsey Vonn last night. Unfortunately, he hasn't found the back of the net. (or pretty much the front of it ) yet.

Now this is important stuff, right here!

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Fiala gives me a very strong vibe of a player who is in bad shape. Just doesn't have the kind of stability and strength in his mobility you'd like to see. Kind of helter skelter on his skates. Seems to indicate at least weak core/high body fat.

Overall not a fan of this player. At least at this stage of his conditioning is a weak skater, with questionable hockey sense. A puck hog who isn't strong on the puck, is careless (couple brutal turnovers against Preds) and tries to dipsy-doodle through players. It's not very effective in the NHL especially with mediocre skating ability. Has slick hands and moves though, and a lot more rangy player than Granlund for example.

As fishing attempts go, this ain’t bad. 7/10

 

[Al Lagoon]

Only Wild player to hug Lindsey Vonn last night. Unfortunately, he hasn't found the back of the net. (or pretty much the front of it ) yet.

I'm guessing he has met her on numerous occasions seeing that she is dating PK Subban.

 

[absolute garbage]

It’s hysterical that you say his “cross-overs don’t look dynamic” as if your a accredited skating coach. I’m somewhat confused as to what you’ve been watching the past 3 games; his skating is very good. Not elite, but definitely not mediocre.

How do you know I am not one? Why does it matter? Why does me saying that make it hysterical? Is it hysterically false in your opinion? Are only skating coaches allowed to comment on someone's skating ability? Do you think he has dynamic crossovers? Are you a skating coach? I don't follow you here.

I mean, I guess the thing that people here really struggle with is what is "good"? Because compared to yourself, Fiala is an amazing skater. Sure. But compared to NHL competition where you are supposed to beat best players in the world who constantly have the natural advantage over you in order to create offense (without puck on defense vs challenging with puck on offense)? Yeah, he's pretty meh. He isn't beating guys with his skating. It's not dynamic or explosive. He has silky hands, but his non-stationary moves (including his pretty good lateral ability) come largely from slow-ish glide which is a limiting factor and plays part in his poor production. He falls quite a lot and is not strong on the puck. Night and day difference compared to Forsberg who someone mentioned earlier, you saw his power and strength in his skating in that tying goal. Fiala is not capable of that (at least currently).

It's really funny watching you guys' reaction to this, but this really shouldn't be the kind of blasphemy you make it to be. I think if you guys actually sit down and ease off on the snarky and juvenile insults and comments, maybe open your mind a bit and think about what makes a player beat another player (not goalie), it almost every time comes down to SKATING in some shape or form. There's other things involved there too, but skating is the core of everything. I've noticed, and this is something that this thread greatly demonstrates as well, that only a tiny tiny fraction of hockey fans actually understand skating ability and the nuances of it enough to evaluate it properly. Seem like the vast majority of people just shrug off "ya he's a very good skater" as long as the guy doesn't look like Hendricks. The analysis doesn't tend to go much deeper than that.

A guy like Spurgeon is in the 1% of skating ability in the NHL. Actually off the top of my head I can't think of a defenseman with better mobility, so might as well say he's currently the best skating defenseman in the league. Brodin isn't too far off from there either. Staal is probably in the bottom 20 percentile (only reason why it's not bottom 10 is because he's pretty strong in battles at least in the first half of the shift). I'm not sure where exactly I'd put Fiala, but for example Granlund despite all his stumpyness was overall a better and more effective skater. Going back to the "skating is the core everything", I'm not sure if it's even possible that a guy who scores 70 points in a season is a worse skater than a guy who scores 40-50 points in season (remember, skating is so much more than just being a fast north-south skater). Maybe there's some exceptions there, but it's very rare.

 

[MuckOG]

I'm not sure if it's even possible that a guy who scores 70 points in a season is a worse skater than a guy who scores 40-50 points in season

Gretzky wasn't the greatest skater in the NHL. In fact, I would bet that there were many guys who scored 50 points during his time that were better skaters than he was.

 

[2Pair]

Spurgeon is the 4th best skating defenseman on the Wild.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I don't think anybody here knows definitively the ins and outs of Fiala's game after watching 3 games. I have a hunch about what he's good at, and what he's probably going to get better at, but that's all they are.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think if you guys actually sit down and ease off on the snarky and juvenile insults and comments

Ease off the snark, you say...​

Yeah, evaluation of a player isn't as easy as it might seem. Takes a lot experience and knowledge. Not surprised so many people struggle with it as badly as they do (including you two).

 

[absolute garbage]

Gretzky wasn't the greatest skater in the NHL. In fact, I would bet that there were many guys who scored 50 points at the time that were better skaters than he was.

This is kinda what I was talking about. Sure, if you put prime Michael Grabner and prime Wayne Gretzky on the goal line and make them race to the other goal line, Grabner will get there first. This is obvious, and I'm sure a lot of fans would go "Grabner is better skater than Gretzky durr".

Surely there are and were many who were faster like that, but ice hockey especially in the NHL is not a speed skating competition. There's so much more to skating ability than north-south speed, things that are so much more important but much less talked about (because they are not as obvious to the average fan). What about Gretzky's razor sharp turns, first step and balance in tight quarters? He leaves Grabner eating dust there. What about Gretzky's edgework, crossovers and body control, the way he shifted his weight from side to side mid-stride. It's not even close. He was a great skater. It's just one of those things that gets ignored because it's not the easiest thing to see and evaluate.

Hell, I could even make an argument that Granlund is a better skater than Grabner, who I'd possibly consider a "rare exception" that I referred earlier. Grabner beats him easily on open ice, but how much of the game is player on open ice really? It's a small %. Granlund is more crafty and beats him in quickness in tight spaces and also at using his body. That's where most of the game is played.

Not that I think Fiala is particularly fast north-south either. Again, I thought he looked better last season. I'm not seeing the same kind of control, which to me indicates poor conditioning. Exact same thing happened with Boeser by the way too. He's flailing way more than last year after adding a lot of weight last offseason and seemingly struggling with his weight/condition. You can tell a lot by the stance the player is in when skating. To me Fiala (and Boeser too) just look sluggish this year.

Ease off the snark, you say...

It wasn't meant to be snark. My bad if it came out that way.

 

[2Pair]

This is kinda what I was talking about. Sure, if you put prime Michael Grabner and prime Wayne Gretzky on the goal line and make them race to the other goal line, Grabner will get there first. This is obvious, and I'm sure a lot of fans would go "Grabner is better skater than Gretzky durr".

Surely there are and were many who were faster like that, but ice hockey especially in the NHL is not a speed skating competition. There's so much more to skating ability than north-south speed, things that are so much more important but much less talked about (because they are not as obvious to the average fan). What about Gretzky's razor sharp turns, first step and balance in tight quarters? He leaves Grabner eating dust there. What about Gretzky's edgework, crossovers and body control, the way he shifted his weight from side to side mid-stride. It's not even close. He was a great skater. It's just one of those things that gets ignored because it's not the easiest thing to see and evaluate.

Hell, I could even make an argument that Granlund is a better skater than Grabner, who I'd possibly consider a "rare exception" that I referred earlier. Grabner beats him easily on open ice, but how much of the game is player on open ice really? It's a small %. Granlund is more crafty and beats him in quickness in tight spaces and also at using his body. That's where most of the game is played.

Not that I think Fiala is particularly fast north-south either. Again, I thought he looked better last season. I'm not seeing the same kind of control, which to me indicates poor conditioning. Exact same thing happened with Boeser by the way too. He's flailing way more than last year after adding a lot of weight last offseason and seemingly struggling with his weight/condition. You can tell a lot by the stance the player is in when skating. To me Fiala (and Boeser too) just look sluggish this year.


It wasn't meant to be snark. My bad if it came out that way.

Would love for you to list the Wilds top 5-10 skating forwards. Thanks

 

[Ban Hammered]

Yeah, evaluation of a player isn't as easy as it might seem. Takes a lot experience and knowledge. Not surprised so many people struggle with it as badly as they do (including you two).

And your scouting credentials are what...?

 

[MuckOG]

This is kinda what I was talking about. Sure, if you put prime Michael Grabner and prime Wayne Gretzky on the goal line and make them race to the other goal line, Grabner will get there first. This is obvious, and I'm sure a lot of fans would go "Grabner is better skater than Gretzky durr".

Surely there are and were many who were faster like that, but ice hockey especially in the NHL is not a speed skating competition. There's so much more to skating ability than north-south speed, things that are so much more important but much less talked about (because they are not as obvious to the average fan). What about Gretzky's razor sharp turns, first step and balance in tight quarters? He leaves Grabner eating dust there. What about Gretzky's edgework, crossovers and body control, the way he shifted his weight from side to side mid-stride. It's not even close. He was a great skater. It's just one of those things that gets ignored because it's not the easiest thing to see and evaluate.

Hell, I could even make an argument that Granlund is a better skater than Grabner, who I'd possibly consider a "rare exception" that I referred earlier. Grabner beats him easily on open ice, but how much of the game is player on open ice really? It's a small %. Granlund is more crafty and beats him in quickness in tight spaces and also at using his body. That's where most of the game is played.

Not that I think Fiala is particularly fast north-south either. Again, I thought he looked better last season. I'm not seeing the same kind of control, which to me indicates poor conditioning. Exact same thing happened with Boeser by the way too. He's flailing way more than last year after adding a lot of weight last offseason and seemingly struggling with his weight/condition. You can tell a lot by the stance the player is in when skating. To me Fiala (and Boeser too) just look sluggish this year.


It wasn't meant to be snark. My bad if it came out that way.

I'm done......

 

[absolute garbage]

Would love for you to list the Wilds top 5-10 skating forwards. Thanks

Think everyone can agree Wild is not a very good skating team upfront. If you are looking at purely speed, Ek and Zucker are the only players who stand out. Zucker is fastest, Ek has speed and is also strong and imposing (similar to Coyle). I guess Kunin can stand out at times with his speed too but it's rare.

What comes to being most effective and efficient skater, now that Granlund is gone I think Parise takes the cake. He can't match Ek or Zucker on open ice, but he's still pretty quick and strong in tight spaces in the offensive zone (Staal was up there last season but has fallen off this season). I'm not sure where Fiala is. Somewhere after those guys.

On defense Spurgeon is elite (how does a 5'9 defenseman have the greatest area of coverage in the NHL?! His mobility is absolutely ridiculous) and Brodin and Dumba are excellent too. Suter has lost a step.

 

[TheeNorthStar]

We won the trade for just how viral that stick flip to bittetto video went.
the most national recognition the wild have ever gotten lol

 

[Wild11MN]

We won the trade for just how viral that stick flip to bittetto video went.
the most national recognition the wild have ever gotten lol

Never even saw it. Video?

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

Never even saw it. Video?

This is also an illegal play