Player Discussion Kevin Fiala

[Digitalbooya]

Wish Dumba was more consistent, or rather, didn't have so many yikes plays. If he is going to do that, then you want him being dangerous offensively. He's also got to stop going overboard with the hits. The league penalizes you on them anyways a lot of the time, and all it's doing is getting him hurt.

Don't want to discount the many times that he played well. The guy has the skating, strength and athleticism that you want in a NHL player, and he and Brodin are playing together way better now. I would keep him around if he would sign a long term deal at 5M. I am afraid that he'll want at least 6M, if not more. I just don't see it, especially with him starting to get injured.

If we didn't have the Parise/Suter cap hits i would be more relaxed about his contract. Would probably be fine with him getting 6M x 7, similar to his buddy Brodin, though I don't think he is as good.

I think they should settle around 4-5 years at around $5.5M AAV.

 

[57special]

I think they should settle around 4-5 years at around $5.5M AAV.

That would be nice for the team(sort of, things are screwed up because of the buyouts), but no way does Dumba do that, I think. Depends on what he does next year, of course.

I could see Dumba being moved at the TDL if Middleton is signed, and both he and Addison play well. I don't think that Addison has to be a defensive stalwart, just be good on the PP and in possession.

 

[ShortPeter6]

I think they should settle around 4-5 years at around $5.5M AAV.

If I was GMBG I wouldn’t give him more than 4 million a year. His shot is gone and the injuries don’t go away the older you get. Obviously he won’t accept that deal so trade him it is. If his shot was still there it would be a totally different story.

 

[Digitalbooya]

That would be nice for the team(sort of, things are screwed up because of the buyouts), but no way does Dumba do that, I think. Depends on what he does next year, of course.

I could see Dumba being moved at the TDL if Middleton is signed, and both he and Addison play well. I don't think that Addison has to be a defensive stalwart, just be good on the PP and in possession.

I could definitely see him doing that. He seems like the type of guy that wants to stay in Minnesota.

If I was GMBG I wouldn’t give him more than 4 million a year. His shot is gone and the injuries don’t go away the older you get. Obviously he won’t accept that deal so trade him it is. If his shot was still there it would be a totally different story.

I'm very thankful you are not Bill Guerin.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I could definitely see him doing that. He seems like the type of guy that wants to stay in Minnesota.

And Guerin seems like the type to not make him pay for it.

 

[ShortPeter6]

I could definitely see him doing that. He seems like the type of guy that wants to stay in Minnesota.

I'm very thankful you are not Bill Guerin.

I don’t get why people think he should make so much? His last contract was based of his offensive potential, which was huge at the time. Now that he has basically no slapper anymore, older and gets injured a lot he should make the same? Just cause he wants to be here and is a good Ole boy shouldn’t get him more money. Also he doesn’t really Fit cap wise long term. I would rather get something for him now.

 

[north21]

Yep Dumba was paid for that big 50 point season and the shot and hasn't gotten back to that form since then. Would be happy to keep him long term but we might need to save a little money somewhere, hopefully he is willing. Even better if he can heal up and start shooting again.

 

[BagHead]

I don’t get why people think he should make so much? His last contract was based of his offensive potential, which was huge at the time. Now that he has basically no slapper anymore, older and gets injured a lot he should make the same? Just cause he wants to be here and is a good Ole boy shouldn’t get him more money. Also he doesn’t really Fit cap wise long term. I would rather get something for him now.

I'm inclined to agree to a point. I don't think he should get a raise from his current level. A cap hit that would be a fairly equal percentage of the cap would be about $6.25 million, assuming the salary cap raises to $83 million by '23-24. I don't think he should make that much. He's not the 50 point defender he was (and was expected to be) when that contract was signed.

He probably does deserve something beginning with a 5, which would put him in #2-3 defeseman territory. $5.5M would rank his cap hit 48th in the league, at the moment. Considering the role he's been in, and been fairly successful at, that seems close to fair. I'd personally want him to be closer to $5.2 or $5.3 (Martinez and Skjei money), but that's where I value his play to be.

This all ignores the human element of it. It's tough for a person to take a pay cut that big. I mean, what if most of us started earning 15% less per year? We'd try to find a different job because our lifestyles probably couldn't afford the cut. I wouldn't blame him if he tested the UFA market at that point.

 

[thestonedkoala]

There's also a timing issue. If we're convinced that this has to be done by the draft, then the UFA aspect isn't too much in play, unless a team like NJ really thinks that they have a legit shot at Gaudreau for whatever reason.

But that also isn't in favor for Minnesota. Can Minnesota wait until 2024 for a 1st round draft pick?

Also The Rangers trade is a good trade to look at as they needed to trade Buch. They were having some cap issues as well.

Finally, why are we talking about Dumba in a Fiala thread?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

But that also isn't in favor for Minnesota. Can Minnesota wait until 2024 for a 1st round draft pick?

Also The Rangers trade is a good trade to look at as they needed to trade Buch. They were having some cap issues as well.

Finally, why are we talking about Dumba in a Fiala thread?

Yes.

The Rangers trade was bad at the time and hasn’t aged any better.

Because they are connected.

 

[Bazeek]

But that also isn't in favor for Minnesota. Can Minnesota wait until 2024 for a 1st round draft pick?

Also The Rangers trade is a good trade to look at as they needed to trade Buch. They were having some cap issues as well.

Finally, why are we talking about Dumba in a Fiala thread?

The problem with the Rangers trade is less the context and more the talk that the Rangers overvalued Blais and likely undervalued Buchnevich. They were looking to get bigger/tougher/whatever-er and figured Blais would help address that. It's a dumb thing that teams do frequently.

Not that I'd put it past Guerin to do something similar here, but I don't think it translates to one of these "roster player + prospect + two 2nds" sorts of trades. I think the more relevant question is: aside from high-end picks or prospects, what sort of player would the Wild covet right now? The Sabres wanted a goalie (Levi). The Rangers wanted meat (Blais). The Wild would want... ?

Looking at the roster and the pool, nothing's jumped out at me aside from center and skilled winger prospects: we always need the former and will be losing the latter in Fiala.

Beyond that, I still don't really know what sorts of players Guerin gravitates toward. Unless it's high character, which.... I swear to god, Bill....

 

[57special]

I'm inclined to agree to a point. I don't think he should get a raise from his current level. A cap hit that would be a fairly equal percentage of the cap would be about $6.25 million, assuming the salary cap raises to $83 million by '23-24. I don't think he should make that much. He's not the 50 point defender he was (and was expected to be) when that contract was signed.

He probably does deserve something beginning with a 5, which would put him in #2-3 defeseman territory. $5.5M would rank his cap hit 48th in the league, at the moment. Considering the role he's been in, and been fairly successful at, that seems close to fair. I'd personally want him to be closer to $5.2 or $5.3 (Martinez and Skjei money), but that's where I value his play to be.

This all ignores the human element of it. It's tough for a person to take a pay cut that big. I mean, what if most of us started earning 15% less per year? We'd try to find a different job because our lifestyles probably couldn't afford the cut. I wouldn't blame him if he tested the UFA market at that point.

Him being named an "A" makes the bolded situation even stickier. How do you tell a guy that you want him to be a leader on the club, but downgrade his pay at the same time?

Dumba's D has gotten better, his offense worse since signing the contract. I think that his shot is still a plus...it was clocked in game in the high 90's last year. In a world where you don't have the Suter/Parise buyouts you give him a 6m x 6/7 years. We don't live in that world, however. You try to get him to bite on a 5+M x4/5 year contract, or (in my perfect little world) you trade him and keep Fiala.

What worries me about Dumba is that he still has a recklessness to his game. It costs the team when he is on the ice, results in injuries, and is unfitting in a player that is in a leadership position. Good guy- don't mean to imply that he isn't, but he can't be getting hurt by going for blow up hits against 6'6" AHL players, or getting into fights. We have other, lesser paid players to do that. I personally wouldn't want to invest big money longterm in a guy who has shown that he doesn't "get it".

But that also isn't in favor for Minnesota. Can Minnesota wait until 2024 for a 1st round draft pick?

Also The Rangers trade is a good trade to look at as they needed to trade Buch. They were having some cap issues as well.

Finally, why are we talking about Dumba in a Fiala thread?

Our mods are in summer "sleep" mode, and the mice are playing.

 

[Bazeek]

Our mods are in summer "sleep" mode, and the mice are playing.

That and people are attached to the idea that Dumba's fate is entwined with Fiala's, so it's gonna keep coming up here.

 

[57special]

That and people are attached to the idea that Dumba's fate is entwined with Fiala's, so it's gonna keep coming up here.

Well, i could've said that, but it's not nearly as fun.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Any argument that the return for Fiala might not be what we want is an argument in favor of keeping him and moving somebody else.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Yep Dumba was paid for that big 50 point season and the shot and hasn't gotten back to that form since then. Would be happy to keep him long term but we might need to save a little money somewhere, hopefully he is willing. Even better if he can heal up and start shooting again.

If Dumba was still a 50 point defenseman he would be looking at $8M+. Look at Lindholm's new contract. He got $6.5M with term and he hasn't put up more than 35 points in a single season.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If Dumba was still a 50 point defenseman he would be looking at $8M+. Look at Lindholm's new contract. He got $6.5M with term and he hasn't put up more than 35 points in a single season.

Yeah. Can't conflate our cap situation with what the market actually is. Dumba taking a pay cut would be a favor, and not one that I'm expecting.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Any argument that the return for Fiala might not be what we want is an argument in favor of keeping him and moving somebody else.

I actually listened to the Skor North podcast with Bill Guerin last night while I was working. I'm not sure he is going to deal Fiala at all.

 

[Bazeek]

Any argument that the return for Fiala might not be what we want is an argument in favor of keeping him and moving somebody else.

I'd like to go on the record as saying that I agree with this, but speed-ran the 5 stages of grief last summer and have been at Acceptance for a while now.

Shouldn't be any doubt as to who's responsible for the consequences here though, whatever the return ends up being. The Parise and Suter contracts imposed limits on Guerin, but not limits that removed all of his options. This is the course he decided on anyway.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Any argument that the return for Fiala might not be what we want is an argument in favor of keeping him and moving somebody else.

Who though? Should the Wild get less for that player just to keep Fiala? What if it is multiple players?

 

[Spurgeon]

I found it funny that either Guerin or Russo alluded to the buyouts being a reason that Fiala was able to stay around for another season, when in actuality the buyout savings were completely eaten up by Goligoski’s $5M. If anything, Suter’s buyout has made things that much harder to re-sign Fiala. Keeping him on this roster instead of Goligoski would’ve netted us $800K this upcoming season and $1.8M the following. Suter’s buyout was such a shortsighted decision, especially when you see what happened to the defense shortly after (losing Soucy and then Cole). Fiala should’ve been signed to a long-term contract last offseason @ $6.5-7M and we would’ve been able to keep a Top 4 in tact that has proven to be consistently one of the best in the league.

This is obviously coming from a hindsight perspective, but even at the time I thought there was a pretty clear path Guerin could’ve taken to navigate the cap and Expansion Draft through just a Parise buyout. Frustrating that it’s almost a foregone conclusion that we’re going to lose a PPG player because of Guerin’s “my way or the highway” attitude.

Who though? Should the Wild get less for that player just to keep Fiala? What if it is multiple players?

The Wild should trade different assets if they can’t get fair value on an 85 point 25-year old winger. This team has struggled for two decades with scoring and they’re immediately about to piss away a chance at having two dynamic scoring lines.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Who though? Should the Wild get less for that player just to keep Fiala? What if it is multiple players?

Dumba this summer, Zuccarello next summer. I believe that both of those returns will (and should) be less than what we'd get for Fiala, and I am ok with that.

 

[Webster]

Maybe a fiala trade is part of a plan they came up with last year.
Maybe if they want to get rid of him, it's more off ice stuff, and not so much his game. Does Evason and Fiala get along? Hmm...

 

[Bazeek]

Maybe a fiala trade is part of a plan they came up with last year.
Maybe if they want to get rid of him, it's more off ice stuff, and not so much his game. Does Evason and Fiala get along? Hmm...

Ya think?

 

[AKL]

I wish they'd just do it. This is like when you know your long term relationship is on the rocks and heading to the end but neither one of you wanna be the one to end it. It's painful, just rip the bandaid off.