Player Discussion Kevin Fiala

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Digitalbooya

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Well, that mock up isn't something that can happen, since the Talbot/Kahkonen ship has sailed. Going forward with the options we currently have, I could stomach it.

This year:

Kaprizov - Hartman - Zuccarello
Boldy - Gaudreau - Fiala (8M)
Greenway - Eriksson Ek - Foligno
Duhaime - Dewar (900k) - Bjugstad (900k)
Deslauries (750k)
Parise buyout

Brodin - Spurgeon
Middleton (X) - Addison
Kulikov - Goligoski
Merrill
Suter buyout

Talbot
2G (Y)

~$4M to spend on Middleton and a 2nd goalie. Only requires a Dumba + Jost trade. Could probably even keep Jost around if you wanted to.

Next year:

Kaprizov - Rossi - Hartman
Boldy (6.5M) - Somebody (X) - Fiala
Greenway - Eriksson Ek - Foligno
Four 4th liners totaling 3.5M
Parise buyout

Brodin - Spurgeon
Middleton (~2) - Addison (Y)
Goligoski - Merrill
Somebody (900k)
Suter buyout

Goalie of some sort (Z)
Wallstedt (925k)

~$6.2M to spend on a center between Boldy/Fiala (X), Addison's bridge (Y) and goalie to pair with Wallstedt (Z).
$6.2M to spend on a 2nd line center, a starting goaltender and Addison? Yeeesh. That’s almost impossible. Even a cheap starter like MAF will cost probably $3M. Addison will probably be $1.5-2M. That leaves $1.2-1.7M for a 2nd line center (maybe a Gaudreau extension?).

Once you get past the numbers aspect, that defense is awful.
 

thestonedkoala

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Again, my biggest concern is that Guerin doesn't see the team as rebuilding or retooling and this 21 - 22 didn't overachieve. As such, he trades Fiala for a winger around the same age.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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$6.2M to spend on a 2nd line center, a starting goaltender and Addison? Yeeesh. That’s almost impossible. Even a cheap starter like MAF will cost probably $3M. Addison will probably be $1.5-2M. That leaves $1.2-1.7M for a 2nd line center (maybe a Gaudreau extension?).

Once you get past the numbers aspect, that defense is awful.

If you’re trying to win the Cup over these next 3 years, I think you’re going to have a bad time. Might as well see some goals go in.
 

Goose312

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If we are not trying to win the Cup then why aren't we rebuilding?
Because they have a pretty good team with a lot of good prospects. They might not win a cup the next 3 seasons. But they can play some competitive hockey and they can build an actual prospect pool of players they don't feel the need to rush like the team has been doing for a decade. Then come out of the worst of the buyout with a lot of young players and a lot of cap space to fill in the roster.

If all/most of the guys like Rossi, Wallstedt, Addison, Marat, some of the LHD prospects, whoever they get from trading Fiala, or whoever else just don't pan out they can still look at pivoting to a rebuild in a few seasons. Rebuilding right now pretty much requires trade Kaprizov which is another answer as to why they aren't rebuilding. Yet.
 

Digitalbooya

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Because they have a pretty good team with a lot of good prospects. They might not win a cup the next 3 seasons. But they can play some competitive hockey and they can build an actual prospect pool of players they don't feel the need to rush like the team has been doing for a decade. Then come out of the worst of the buyout with a lot of young players and a lot of cap space to fill in the roster.

If all/most of the guys like Rossi, Wallstedt, Addison, Marat, some of the LHD prospects, whoever they get from trading Fiala, or whoever else just don't pan out they can still look at pivoting to a rebuild in a few seasons. Rebuilding right now pretty much requires trade Kaprizov which is another answer as to why they aren't rebuilding. Yet.
The team won't rebuild with Kaprizov on contract. The idea that Guerin isn't gonna try and win a Cup every year is wild to me. Just make the playoffs and anything can happen.

They do need another long term option at center. I'm hoping they somehow address that in the next two drafts.
 

Webster

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You need a buyer if you want to sell something. When it comes to Zuccarello, if he plays well next season, he stays. If he has a bad season they could try to trade him, but then who wants a 6M contract? Can retain 50%? Not smart for the Wild because of the cap situation. He has a NTC as well. So in reality they're basically stuck with him. Also Fenton tried to trade Dumba, according to Russo, obviously without success. A trade isn't always easy.
 

thestonedkoala

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Andreas Johnsson, Chase Stillman and two second round picks for Kevin Fiala

Would that work? Gives Minnesota a high second this year that could be used to move up or down the draft. A good prospect in Stillman and a warm body in Johnsson.
 

Bazeek

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Andreas Johnsson, Chase Stillman and two second round picks for Kevin Fiala

Would that work? Gives Minnesota a high second this year that could be used to move up or down the draft. A good prospect in Stillman and a warm body in Johnsson.
This is the definition of a "4 quarters for a dollar" trade. If the goal is to turn a good share of the fanbase against Guerin, it would be highly effective.
 

thestonedkoala

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This is the definition of a "4 quarters for a dollar" trade. If the goal is to turn a good share of the fanbase against Guerin, it would be highly effective.
I mean Minnesota is kind of pushed against the wall here. If New Jersey doesn't want to give up Mercer and Holtz (and why would they?), Minnesota doesn't have a lot of options. The longer it goes into the off-season, the less value Minnesota will have. Teams know that Minnesota doesn't have the cap space. They either try and trade a player they don't want to trade or a bunch of them or... What?

Stillman gives them a tier B prospect, Johnsson is a 20 goal scorer and gives them another winger in the top 9 without really spending a ton. They get a high second and a gamble next season.
 

Bazeek

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I mean Minnesota is kind of pushed against the wall here. If New Jersey doesn't want to give up Mercer and Holtz (and why would they?), Minnesota doesn't have a lot of options. The longer it goes into the off-season, the less value Minnesota will have. Teams know that Minnesota doesn't have the cap space. They either try and trade a player they don't want to trade or a bunch of them or... What?

Stillman gives them a tier B prospect, Johnsson is a 20 goal scorer and gives them another winger in the top 9 without really spending a ton. They get a high second and a gamble next season.
Teams will not be bidding against the possibility that the Wild just keep and re-sign Fiala. They'll be bidding against other teams.

Minnesota's not in as advantageous a position here as they should be, but it's not a "oh god, please save us" situation either.
 

DeagleJenkins

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You need a buyer if you want to sell something. When it comes to Zuccarello, if he plays well next season, he stays. If he has a bad season they could try to trade him, but then who wants a 6M contract? Can retain 50%? Not smart for the Wild because of the cap situation. He has a NTC as well. So in reality they're basically stuck with him. Also Fenton tried to trade Dumba, according to Russo, obviously without success. A trade isn't always easy.
you claim Zucc is doing amazing and clearly with talent he can produce this pace for awhile, yet if we are going to trade him who would want him? also he has a M-NTC. he can submit 10 teams he wont go to and we trade him to 1 of the other 21 teams. very simple. maybe dont retain 50%, could retain 20% or less. depends on if it is needed at all.
 

ShortPeter6

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Strongly disagree. Dumba can shoot, but he hasn't been put in a position to use that shot since 2018-19.

"Not that great defensively." - Person who probably thinks Addison would be a sufficient replacement
He isn’t in that position because his shoulder injuries destroyed his big slapper. To me Dumba’s defensive game is highly over rated.
 

BagHead

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He isn’t in that position because his shoulder injuries destroyed his big slapper. To me Dumba’s defensive game is highly over rated.
This is the first time I've ever seen overrated and defensive game in the same sentence when it comes to Dumba. When did anyone start calling him some kind of a renowned defensive player? I think most believe he's adequate at it while eating big minutes. Is calling him adequate overrating him?

In any case, I don't think the Wild have access to anyone else who would be better there.
 

thestonedkoala

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Teams will not be bidding against the possibility that the Wild just keep and re-sign Fiala. They'll be bidding against other teams.

Minnesota's not in as advantageous a position here as they should be, but it's not a "oh god, please save us" situation either.

Teams may not be bidding against the Wild re-signing Fiala, but Minnesota is hoping that these teams aren't going to sign one of the many free agents without giving up assets.

Gaudreau, Forsberg, Kadri, Strome, Copp, Trocheck...there are so many decent free agents out there.

Minnesota is probably going to get something around Reinhart/Buchnevich's value. Problem is that New Jersey probably won't want to give up a top prospect like Holtz or Mercer, not a 2nd overall pick, or top 10 2023 pick, which means Minnesota may get a 2024 first round pick?
 

Wabit

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Teams may not be bidding against the Wild re-signing Fiala, but Minnesota is hoping that these teams aren't going to sign one of the many free agents without giving up assets.

Gaudreau, Forsberg, Kadri, Strome, Copp, Trocheck...there are so many decent free agents out there.

Minnesota is probably going to get something around Reinhart/Buchnevich's value. Problem is that New Jersey probably won't want to give up a top prospect like Holtz or Mercer, not a 2nd overall pick, or top 10 2023 pick, which means Minnesota may get a 2024 first round pick?

There are some nice UFA out there, true. As a counter point to that, the teams looking to trade for Fiala aren't prime UFA land spots (Fiala might not want to sign there long term some places either). Fiala being at least 2 years younger than everyone you listed is a plus also.

I'm not expecting much for the return Fiala brings. MN might get lucky and some other team's GM panics. MN could also be unlucky and no deal is made at all.
 

Bazeek

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Teams may not be bidding against the Wild re-signing Fiala, but Minnesota is hoping that these teams aren't going to sign one of the many free agents without giving up assets.

Gaudreau, Forsberg, Kadri, Strome, Copp, Trocheck...there are so many decent free agents out there.

Minnesota is probably going to get something around Reinhart/Buchnevich's value. Problem is that New Jersey probably won't want to give up a top prospect like Holtz or Mercer, not a 2nd overall pick, or top 10 2023 pick, which means Minnesota may get a 2024 first round pick?
Free agency is another factor, though it comes with its own risks. A player that's not quite as good as Fiala will want about the same money and term, but will be a worse bet to perform well for the length of it. That sort of thing, along with market attractiveness, matters more to some teams.

I do think Reinhart is the best real-world peg for Fiala, though it's not as firm as some want to make it out to be. The Buchnevich trade was a ridiculed at the time and has only looked worse after 1 season; I don't know if they just really loved Sammy Blais or what, but that isn't a trade I'd put much stock in. In both cases the Sabres/Rangers seemed to value the player/prospect coming back more than usual - Buffalo because of their need for goalies in the system and the Rangers because... he's big? I don't know.

Assuming the 2nd and Mercer aren't in the conversation here, Holtz is the best piece they have to build an offer around. Taking him off the table wouldn't leave the Devils with much to offer beyond the 4-quarters type deals. Other teams will be in the mix, though.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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There's also a timing issue. If we're convinced that this has to be done by the draft, then the UFA aspect isn't too much in play, unless a team like NJ really thinks that they have a legit shot at Gaudreau for whatever reason.
 
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57special

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This is the first time I've ever seen overrated and defensive game in the same sentence when it comes to Dumba. When did anyone start calling him some kind of a renowned defensive player? I think most believe he's adequate at it while eating big minutes. Is calling him adequate overrating him?

In any case, I don't think the Wild have access to anyone else who would be better there.
Probably right, though it would've been nice if Guerin/Evason gave Addison a chance to show us what he could do rather than trot out Jamie Benn again and again(because he's a "good guy", and "deserved it"). IMO, he's similar to what Dumba was at the same age. Less physical, less of a shot, but a better passer, and possibly less mistakes.
 

BagHead

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Probably right, though it would've been nice if Guerin/Evason gave Addison a chance to show us what he could do rather than trot out Jamie Benn again and again(because he's a "good guy", and "deserved it"). IMO, he's similar to what Dumba was at the same age. Less physical, less of a shot, but a better passer, and possibly less mistakes.
I too would have preferred to see Addison over Benn. Have to see what he can do in an extended look sometime soon, or what's the point in having him?
 
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north21

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He isn’t in that position because his shoulder injuries destroyed his big slapper. To me Dumba’s defensive game is highly over rated.

Dumba just leaves you wanting a little more both offensively and defensively on the top pair with Brodin, too bad about the injuries because the offense was there to begin with. He does do well at times but over the long haul there are just too many mistakes. Wish he would start shooting again but obviously something is very off since the injury. I think he is better suited in the 3-4 slot and kind of wonder if him and middleton would work but that makes a mess of everything else. Would be nice to find another version of brodin who can step in at a young age and just be able to play and push everyone down a notch but that seems like a very long shot. We do have some intriguing D prospects so maybe one of them will exceed all expectations. Otherwise we are kind of use to the sub par d-zone play we saw this year.
 

57special

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Wish Dumba was more consistent, or rather, didn't have so many yikes plays. If he is going to do that, then you want him being dangerous offensively. He's also got to stop going overboard with the hits. The league penalizes you on them anyways a lot of the time, and all it's doing is getting him hurt.

Don't want to discount the many times that he played well. The guy has the skating, strength and athleticism that you want in a NHL player, and he and Brodin are playing together way better now. I would keep him around if he would sign a long term deal at 5M. I am afraid that he'll want at least 6M, if not more. I just don't see it, especially with him starting to get injured.

If we didn't have the Parise/Suter cap hits i would be more relaxed about his contract. Would probably be fine with him getting 6M x 7, similar to his buddy Brodin, though I don't think he is as good.
 
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