Signing(s): Kevin Durant to the Warriors
- Thread starter Marc the Habs Fan
- Start date
Garnett? Wade? Really?
Duncan was great but didn't have the Mamba clutch gene and ability to make that last shot like Kobe did.
And Lebron formed superteams to win his rings. He dipped CLE and won 2 in MIA after promising 8. Then when he realizes that Bosh and Wade are finished, he dips and heads back home to form a superteam with mini-Kobe (Kyrie). He then demands that their #1 pick in the draft be traded for another superstar (at the time Love was a superstar).
Better than Kobe?
Cleveland is 4-15 without Lebron in the lineup the last 2 years. "Superteam."
Six Assets
Tim Stützle
Watch this video. How can anybody say with a straight face Lebron>Kobe. Its not all about stats.
Morozov
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Virtanen18
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Kobe fans are the sports equivalent of American voters of a certain political persuasion. Denial of facts and evidence and everything tangible in favor of charisma/killer attitude and a narrative that the media pushed on the world of Kobe as the super clutch successor to Jordan. Kobe's numbers in the fourth quarter of a close game in the playoffs are actually worse than Lebron's from nearly every angle, and those who believe otherwise are victims of confirmation bias.
Not that it will change the mind of anyone who still believes Kobe is better than Lebron, but just for fun:
8/32=25% shooting in these conditions
10/26=38.4% shooting in these conditions
Lebron with better assist numbers and shot quality too. Feel free to tinker with the conditions yourself if you don't believe me: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?player_id=bryanko01
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?player_id=jamesle01
Or you know, persist in ignorance.
Not that it will change the mind of anyone who still believes Kobe is better than Lebron, but just for fun:
8/32=25% shooting in these conditions
10/26=38.4% shooting in these conditions
Lebron with better assist numbers and shot quality too. Feel free to tinker with the conditions yourself if you don't believe me: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?player_id=bryanko01
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?player_id=jamesle01
Or you know, persist in ignorance.
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Still haven't heard your case for Kobe over Duncan. You'd have to severely underrate Duncan's defensive impact relative to Kobe's.
darko
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Kobe's 02/03 (Kobe should've won the MVP over Duncan), 05/06, 06/07 seasons are better than any of Duncan's. Kobe is 12th all time in PPG and that's despite going about 2 years too long where it took a hit. Kobe is a POS but he's a better player.
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I don't care if he was a POS. PPG is no absolute indicator of offensive value. Kobe sometimes suffered from bad shot selection, and while he was the obviously superior scorer, Duncan still posted a higher career TS%. And why do you assume that none of the players above Kobe in PPG played past their best?
How do you account for the fact that there is a massive gulf in defensive value? Kobe's RAPM numbers don't touch Duncan's, mostly because of that difference in defense. I would have said that none of Kobe's seasons touched Duncan's 01/02 or 02/03 campaigns.
Same deal with Garnett: the disparity in defensive value is greater than the disparity in offensive value. Only with Duncan it's a far clearer case, and Duncan had the same team success as Kobe.
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Tim Stützle
Kobe can only compare to MJ. Why are ya'll bringing LeColluder James and Mr. Fundamentals (Mr. Boring) into this.
Also LMAO at KG.
Also LMAO at KG.
Quid Pro Clowe
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If both Duncan and Kobe were 20 and I could choose one of them, it would be Duncan every time. Star play with a team-first mentality. Also very low-profile.
Virtanen18
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Six Assets
Tim Stützle
Quid Pro Clowe
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One guy just won finals MVP and lead his team back from down 3-1.
The other took 890 shots to score 60 points in a meaningless game in April for a team that drafted 2nd overall.
The other took 890 shots to score 60 points in a meaningless game in April for a team that drafted 2nd overall.
Avs_19
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This thread about Durant going to the Warriors has taken a strange turn.
I think LeBron is on another level compared to Kobe. It isn't even debatable. Kobe has two more rings but that can't be the deciding factor when pretty much everything else is in LeBron's favour.
Duncan and Kobe is much closer. I'd take Duncan's career and rank him higher all-time but I don't think there's a significant difference.
I'm surprised people are bringing up KG, Wade, Pierce, etc. I'm not a big Kobe fan but I believe those guys are much lower than him on the all-time ranks. Kobe was better at his peak and had a better career. Wade is my favourite player but he can't match Kobe's resume.
I think LeBron is on another level compared to Kobe. It isn't even debatable. Kobe has two more rings but that can't be the deciding factor when pretty much everything else is in LeBron's favour.
Duncan and Kobe is much closer. I'd take Duncan's career and rank him higher all-time but I don't think there's a significant difference.
I'm surprised people are bringing up KG, Wade, Pierce, etc. I'm not a big Kobe fan but I believe those guys are much lower than him on the all-time ranks. Kobe was better at his peak and had a better career. Wade is my favourite player but he can't match Kobe's resume.
Vamos Rafa
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Duncan's career over Kobe any day of the week just for the fact that Duncan never had a single losing season in his career. It just sucked that he couldn't sustain his scoring late in his career, preventing him from finishing 20 and 10. I hope KG retires now so that he finishes with 10 RPG.
darko
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This thread about Durant going to the Warriors has taken a strange turn.
I think LeBron is on another level compared to Kobe. It isn't even debatable. Kobe has two more rings but that can't be the deciding factor when pretty much everything else is in LeBron's favour.
Duncan and Kobe is much closer. I'd take Duncan's career and rank him higher all-time but I don't think there's a significant difference.
I'm surprised people are bringing up KG, Wade, Pierce, etc. I'm not a big Kobe fan but I believe those guys are much lower than him on the all-time ranks. Kobe was better at his peak and had a better career. Wade is my favourite player but he can't match Kobe's resume.
After reading DM's post anout Duncan I'm happy to conceded that Duncan is marginally better than Kobe.
Not KG. Or Wade or Pierce.
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
This thread about Durant going to the Warriors has taken a strange turn.
I think LeBron is on another level compared to Kobe. It isn't even debatable. Kobe has two more rings but that can't be the deciding factor when pretty much everything else is in LeBron's favour.
Duncan and Kobe is much closer. I'd take Duncan's career and rank him higher all-time but I don't think there's a significant difference.
I'm surprised people are bringing up KG, Wade, Pierce, etc. I'm not a big Kobe fan but I believe those guys are much lower than him on the all-time ranks. Kobe was better at his peak and had a better career. Wade is my favourite player but he can't match Kobe's resume.
THIS is a very reasonable opinion. Ranking KG, Wade and Pierce above Kobe is overreaction to Kobe being unfairly ranked top 5 by some.
Duncan over Kobe or Kobe over Duncan is a wash to me. Both can be argued and both have a strong case.
Kobe IS often overrated by many, but he is also underrated by some. He is a polarizing player/person, so it isn't that surprising.
Voight
#winning
Voight
#winning
Yes, but that also has to do with his team. Duncan was obviously the main cog but he didn't do it on his own.
One guy is 32, on the best team in his conference.
The other is 37, on a team that had no choice but to tank / has been a tire fire the last 3 years.
SO what he took a bunch of shots in his last NBA game.
Power Man
Grrrr
Lebron KG and Duncan actually made their teams better
Kobe didn't he is an overrated volume shooter and a cancer
