Signing(s): Kevin Durant to the Warriors

[Deficient Mode]

Late to the party but...

I really don't see how anyone could definitively see Wade as better player than Kobe. Or what they could even use to prove that opinion other than "Kobe is overrated". KG is a real reach as well.

I do think however that Kobe is overrated by some fans. I think that mostly comes from Kobe being more aesthetically fun to watch for a lot of people than players like Duncan, LeBron etc. I understand the frustration with this line of thinking for non Kobe fans people, but it's just as hyperbolic to claim Kobe was closer to Pierce than he ever was to LeBron.

KG isn't a reach at all. Wade had a higher peak but didn't put in nearly as many good seasons.

I actually like Kobe. Truly do. But I have numerous friends who think he is 2nd behind MJ. I know they arent alone on this statement.

It's pretty weird. I don't understand how people could justify thinking this.

 

[K Fleur]

I actually like Kobe. Truly do. But I have numerous friends who think he is 2nd behind MJ. I know they arent alone on this statement.

Those people are insane.

KG isn't a reach at all. Wade had a higher peak but didn't put in nearly as many good seasons.

Maybe "reach" was a poor choice of words, but I think the gap between them in scoring is larger than the gap in defensive play

As for Wade, his 08-09 season may be better than Kobe's best season(even then that's debatable) but like you said Wade doesn't have nearly as many peak seasons. Kobe was a significantly better defensive player as well.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Those people are insane.




Maybe "reach" was a poor choice of words, but I think the gap between them in scoring is larger than the gap in defensive play

As for Wade, his 08-09 season may be better than Kobe's best season(even then that's debatable) but like you said Wade doesn't have nearly as many peak seasons. Kobe was a significantly better defensive player as well.

Scoring is only one part of offense. Kobe was a slightly above average defender (his all-defensive team selections were mostly wrong) and Garnett was one of the best defenders ever. Kobe was a great volume scorer who sometimes suffered from tunnel vision. Garnett was a good scorer and a good passer with generally more solid decision-making, and he turned the ball over less and had more assists for his usage than Kobe did. The defensive gap was a lot bigger than the offensive gap.

I don't think Kobe was a significantly better defender than Wade. Actually I think Wade was a slightly better defender: he averaged more blocks, steals, and had generally slightly better defensive RAPM numbers, including a higher peak. As far as physical tools go, Kobe was taller and longer, but Wade was significantly quicker than even young Kobe. I don't think there's a lot of separation between the two either way on the defensive end.

 

[Voight]

KG isn't a reach at all. Wade had a higher peak but didn't put in nearly as many good seasons.

His peak was close, but was not higher than Kobe's.

 

[aleshemsky83]

Kobe has 9 all nba defensive first teams, a couple scoring titles, an mvp, and 5 titles.

Hes definitely better than Wade and is in that Duncan category. I dont subtract points for being exciting to watch.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Kobe has 9 all nba defensive first teams, a couple scoring titles, an mvp, and 5 titles.

Hes definitely better than Wade and is in that Duncan category. I dont subtract points for being exciting to watch.

The All-NBA defensive team selections were mostly a joke. The NBA media doesn't understand defense. Just like gold glove selections in baseball.

 

[aleshemsky83]

The All-NBA defensive team selections were mostly a joke. The NBA media doesn't understand defense. Just like gold glove selections in baseball.

Thats pretty funny because the nba media didn't get to vote on it until a couple of years ago if im not mistaken. Only coaches.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Thats pretty funny because the nba media didn't get to vote on it until a couple of years ago if im not mistaken. Only coaches.

You're right. My mistake. It doesn't really matter. No defensive metrics support Kobe as the top defensive shooting guard in most of the years when he was selected, and he visibly didn't put in enough work on that side of the ball.

 

[Six Assets]

You're right. My mistake. It doesn't really matter. No defensive metrics support Kobe as the top defensive shooting guard in most of the years when he was selected, and he visibly didn't put in enough work on that side of the ball.

I mean its not like he made it once/twice only. Then you could argue it could have been a fluke. The guy made it 9 times, show some respect.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I mean its not like he made it once/twice only. Then you could argue it could have been a fluke. The guy made it 9 times, show some respect.

I'm not arguing it was a fluke. I'm arguing the coaches made the same bad decision over and over. Kobe's defensive regularized adjusted +/- numbers are far from elite for a shooting guard most of his career. The stat isn't perfect, but it singles out players' individual contributions to their teams fairly well and is the best defensive metric, and if you understand what it's telling you, there's simply no arguing that he had an elite impact on his own team's defensive performance most years. That's what I perceived watching him in the past too.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Also, at least during the back end of Kobe's career, he was averse to helping on defense. He would do fine guarding his man but if one of his teammates got beat, Kobe was fine watching that player drive to the basket.

 

[aleshemsky83]

Also, at least during the back end of Kobe's career, he was averse to helping on defense. He would do fine guarding his man but if one of his teammates got beat, Kobe was fine watching that player drive to the basket.

Once again, thats pretty funny, because he didn't even guard Rondo in 2010, he would literally turn his back to him at times even when he had the ball. Pretty much the entire defensive gameplan was around kobe playing help defense.

 

[Ar-too]

Kobe quit playing defense about 5 years ago, but before that, he was an elite defender. It didn't come naturally to him, but he put in the work to get good and during his prime, he was a very good defender and deserved the awards he won most of the time.

I suppose in the all time standings, there's an argument to be made for Wade compared to Kobe, but it's not a very strong argument. Same for Garnett. Kobe was a dominant player on both ends of the court for a good long while. Garnett had his moments, Wade too, but they are both below Kobe. Garnett's career is obviously over, and Wade would have to go through a significant career resurgence to get into a serious conversation about having surpassed Kobe at this point.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

After watching the Olympics, I think the Ws have a less than 50% chance of winning it all.

 

[MurrayBannerman]

After watching the Olympics, I think the Ws have a less than 50% chance of winning it all.

50% is already an ass ton.