Confirmed with Link: Kessel and a 4th to Arizona for Galchenyuk and PO Joseph

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Kessel scored 82 points last season and 92 the year before that. Just because he doesn't play defense doesn't make him a bad player.

That's like saying Dumoulin is a bad player because he sucks offensively.

You can score points and be a bad fit. Kessel hit his expiration date, which he was always going to do, and he had to go. That's the way it is. We knew what Kessel was and honestly it's pretty miraculous we got two Cups, back to back, with him as a major factor. Phil's mental game is a slippery slope though, and when he decided he no longer had the team's best interests in mind, or that he wasn't gonna do the little things to help this team succeed, that was that. Nobody was changing his mind. Sully's not a soft coach, and I'm sure his "just shut up and do your job" style only annoyed Phil more, and I think they butted heads way more often than the team let on.

Oh well. He helped us win two Cups and he hit his expiration date. I'm surprised he made it through the summer after we lost to the Caps, to be honest. I figured he was gone for sure after he was doing his "headcase on the bench" routine more and more frequently. The fact that he made it another season was either a testament to the team's willingness to try and work things out, or the fact that he's just not a very desirable asset and they didn't like what they were getting offered for him.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

You can score points and be a bad fit. Kessel hit his expiration date, which he was always going to do, and he had to go. That's the way it is. We knew what Kessel was and honestly it's pretty miraculous we got two Cups, back to back, with him as a major factor. Phil's mental game is a slippery slope though, and when he decided he no longer had the team's best interests in mind, or that he wasn't gonna do the little things to help this team succeed, that was that. Nobody was changing his mind. Sully's not a soft coach, and I'm sure his "just shut up and do your job" style only annoyed Phil more, and I think they butted heads way more often than the team let on.

Oh well. He helped us win two Cups and he hit his expiration date. I'm surprised he made it through the summer after we lost to the Caps, to be honest. I figured he was gone for sure after he was doing his "headcase on the bench" routine more and more frequently. The fact that he made it another season was either a testament to the team's willingness to try and work things out, or the fact that he's just not a very desirable asset and they didn't like what they were getting offered for him.

Kessel was never a bad fit. He was a great fit with Geno, and he was also a great fit on the 3rd line as HBK.
He is coming off an 82 point season. He obviously has value considering he fetched a 1st line forward plus a recent 1st round pick prospect.

Yes coaches don't like him because he does his own thing. But he does his thing better than most players in the world.

Only reason he was traded is because he's fat and likely to start regressing hard because he won't be able to rely on natural gifts much longer. I would say JR traded him at the right time, but let's not pretend the Pens are better without him. Players of Kessel's caliber don't grow on trees.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Kessel was never a bad fit. He was a great fit with Geno, and he was also a great fit on the 3rd line as HBK.
He is coming off an 82 point season. He obviously has value considering he fetched a 1st line forward plus a recent 1st round pick prospect.

Yes coaches don't like him because he does his own thing. But he does his thing better than most players in the world.

Only reason he was traded is because he's fat and likely to start regressing hard because he won't be able to rely on natural gifts much longer. I would say JR traded him at the right time, but let's not pretend the Pens are better without him. Players of Kessel's caliber don't grow on trees.

He was traded, despite producing, because he is a lone wolf and embodied the complacency and "do your own thing" aspects that have been issues with this team for the past few years. It's like when we traded Neal. He embodied the laziness, lack of discipline and lack of playoff performances that plagued the Bylsma Penguins. It was about the paradigm shift, and while I don't think we're done doing the things we need to do, it's a big step. His desires just so happened to align with the overall team desires when we won back to backs. As soon as Phil stopped caring, there was no fixing that. He's a temperamental, petulant dude. I'm glad he's gone, because once the wheels fall off that wagon, he's gonna be abysmal.

 

[Iapyi]

He was traded, despite producing, because he is a lone wolf and embodied the complacency and "do your own thing" aspects that have been issues with this team for the past few years. It's like when we traded Neal. He embodied the laziness, lack of discipline and lack of playoff performances that plagued the Bylsma Penguins. It was about the paradigm shift, and while I don't think we're done doing the things we need to do, it's a big step. His desires just so happened to align with the overall team desires when we won back to backs. As soon as there Phil never cared,was no fixing that. He's a temperamental, petulant dude. I'm glad he's gone, because once the wheels fall off that wagon, he's gonna be abysmal.

His contract will be the biggest albatross in the league if it isn't already.

On the Coyotes thread about the trade I predicted he would get between 40 - 50 points. Of course I was chided for it. That's the exact pace he is on now.

Some of the posters there claim he is engaging in board battles now. I haven't seen many of their games yet this season but that is something I question.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

It really doesn't occur to a lot of people that a coach's job is to coach his players and work with their strengths, not make the players force fit in to the mold they desire.

The Penguins would be better if Kessel were still here and the coaching staff didn't insist on him conforming to them when he's been wildly successful playing his way.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It really doesn't occur to a lot of people that a coach's job is to coach his players and work with their strengths, not make the players force fit in to the mold they desire.

The Penguins would be better if Kessel were still here and the coaching staff didn't insist on him conforming to them when he's been wildly successful playing his way.

Why is this true? Why does the responsibility for making a player work only on the coach and not on the player?

Both Sullivan and Kessel are to blame, but trying to say Kessel is blameless is just crazy. He's worn out his welcome for 3 teams now, just because he's a lazy player who refuses to play the game any other way. Sullivan shouldn't have been so dead set on him playing a certain style, and instead gave him some freedom to play his own way. But Kessel also should have made an effort to play a style that Sullivan liked instead of just doing whatever he wanted. It's a 2-way street. It's like blaming divorce on 1 parent while both were hardcore alcoholics, they both caused it to fail.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

He hasn't "worn out his welcome on three teams."

Boston was retooling and he turned down a contract extension.

Toronto was rebuilding.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He hasn't "worn out his welcome on three teams."

Boston was retooling and he turned down a contract extension.

Toronto was rebuilding.

So you're nitpicking 1 point instead of responding to my entire comment? Again, why is it solely Sullivan's responsibility to fix their relationship? Why does Kessel deserve no blame there?

That's also woefully ignorant to believe that Kessel didn't wear out his welcome in Toronto or Boston, but that's not really the point I'm making.

 

[Turin]

It really doesn't occur to a lot of people that a coach's job is to coach his players and work with their strengths, not make the players force fit in to the mold they desire.

The Penguins would be better if Kessel were still here and the coaching staff didn't insist on him conforming to them when he's been wildly successful playing his way.

Kessel doesn’t even look like an NHL player 5 on 5 in Arizona with his buddy buddy coach.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It just blows my mind for how some people try to blame coaches for faults in players. It's not the coach's job to cater to any specific player, it's the coach's job to get the best team possible. With Kessel playing how he played, it was impossible to get the "best team possible" with him on it. If Kessel wanted to stay, he should have made any effort to play a more well rounded game that had him giving effort at all times. He didn't do that at all. Expecting coaches to have to deal with lazy and selfish players because "it's their job" is putting needless babysitting work on a coach that the player shouldn't need.

If you were a boss and one of your employees didn't follow company policy for how to do work and refused to change how he worked when confronted about it, would you say "Just let him do what he wants"?

 

[ronduguayshair]

He hasn't "worn out his welcome on three teams."

Boston was retooling and he turned down a contract extension.

Toronto was rebuilding.

This opinion is not based in reality

 

[Shady Machine]

Kessel doesn’t even look like an NHL player 5 on 5 in Arizona with his buddy buddy coach.

How many games have you watched? Not disputing your opinion as I have only watched one game.

 

[Turin]

How many games have you watched? Not disputing your opinion as I have only watched one game.

No full games, just bits and pieces. Looks like he tried hard but didn’t get much going early and the last two weeks he been horrendous. They want him healthy scratched on the Coyotes board, he’s also hurting their PP.

 

[Shady Machine]

No full games, just bits and pieces. Looks like he tried hard but didn’t get much going early and the last two weeks he been horrendous. They want him healthy scratched on the Coyotes board, he’s also hurting their PP.

Thanks. I have read the Coyotes board and yes some have said to bench him but many have said to be more patient. No one is now saying he is playing well from what I can tell so fair enough.

 

[XX]

Kessel doesn’t even look like an NHL player 5 on 5 in Arizona with his buddy buddy coach.

It's the truth and it's a shame. He finally got demoted towards the tail end of the game against the Blues last night because Tocc had seen enough. Hasn't helped the PP at all.

I'd send him back for Chucky's expiring contract in a heartbeat.

If you were a boss and one of your employees didn't follow company policy for how to do work and refused to change how he worked when confronted about it, would you say "Just let him do what he wants"?

They've done exactly that here in AZ, feeding him prime zone starts and all the icetime he wants, including on the PP and starting him in OT. Hasn't done anything with it. Just bad.

 

[lucasjb]

No full games, just bits and pieces. Looks like he tried hard but didn’t get much going early and the last two weeks he been horrendous. They want him healthy scratched on the Coyotes board, he’s also hurting their PP.

I watch all the extended highlights of Yotes games because I kind of like their team and I'm interested to see how Kessel would go and this matches up with what I saw too. He seemed really engaged early in the season, was making plays but not getting the bounces. I don't know about "horrendous" but he's been conspicuously absent from video lately. His stats are real bad, 1 ES goal (2 PP goals) in 19 games and the second worst +/- on the team at -6. Idk maybe he plays in front of Jack Johnson in Arizona too.

Kessel was a good player for the Pens in the cup runs, but I was thrilled to see him moved last summer. He's not a good player anymore and he didn't fit on this team. Even if AG doesn't work out it was addition by subtraction at that point. This year's Penguins team looks engaged and energised and I think moving Phil was the perfect way to make room for young players to come in and bring their enthusiasm and excitement with them.

 

[Will Hunting]

Yeah that was the last reasonable chance to move Phil and they did just that. Thank godness.. This team is clearly better without Phil. Now they need to dump Galchenyuk too and create that capspace. Good that Galchs contract is just expiring. And there is still POJ.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah that was the last reasonable chance to move Phil and they did just that. Thank godness.. This team is clearly better without Phil. Now they need to dump Galchenyuk too and create that capspace. Good that Galchs contract is just expiring. And there is still POJ.

I don’t see why it is such a hard situation to grasp. It’s basically what people begged Shero to do with players like Orpik and Kunitz and JR did it and people are disappointed because Galchenyuk isn’t Kessel.

 

[KIRK]

I don’t see why it is such a hard situation to grasp. It’s basically what people begged Shero to do with players like Orpik and Kunitz and JR did it and people are disappointed because Galchenyuk isn’t Kessel.

Frankly, Kessel isn't Kessel anymore. That's why adding the expiring contract was key.

 

[Gurglesons]

Frankly, Kessel isn't Kessel anymore. That's why adding the expiring contract was key.

Just like Orpik and Kuni weren’t who they were on the cup runs.

The return likely would’ve been very similar had we moved them. The point isn’t the actual move, it is the theoretical move.

 

[KIRK]

Just like Orpik and Kuni weren’t who they were on the cup runs.

The return likely would’ve been very similar had we moved them. The point isn’t the actual move, it is the theoretical move.

It's funny. I remember discussing Kessel with @IcedCapp after the 2017 cup. Neither of us thought Rutherford would do it, but that would've been the time. Summer of 2018 was the last chance to get anything significant for him (deal still wouldn't have been 'value', but you'd have done a bit better than last summer).

BUT, what's done is done. Under the circumstances, the expiring contract and a legit decent defensive prospect was an okay-ish return.

 

[ChaosAgent]

It's the truth and it's a shame. He finally got demoted towards the tail end of the game against the Blues last night because Tocc had seen enough. Hasn't helped the PP at all.

I'd send him back for Chucky's expiring contract in a heartbeat.

Let's make the biggest WTF trade of all time...

To Pit: Kessel
To AZ: Galchenyuk and Jack Johnson

Only question would be a Kessel buyout after this year - if he doesn't sprinkle fairy dust on the PP. Could we even buy him out with the salary retention from Toronto? For what it's worth the JJ buyout after this year for AZ would cost something like $1M/year for the next 6 years.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Let's make the biggest WTF trade of all time...

To Pit: Kessel
To AZ: Galchenyuk and Jack Johnson

Only question would be a Kessel buyout after this year - if he doesn't sprinkle fairy dust on the PP. Could we even buy him out with the salary retention from Toronto? For what it's worth the JJ buyout after this year for AZ would cost something like $1M/year for the next 6 years.

That would be the greatest trade ever. Even if it sucked.

 

[Turin]

Let's make the biggest WTF trade of all time...

To Pit: Kessel
To AZ: Galchenyuk and Jack Johnson

Only question would be a Kessel buyout after this year - if he doesn't sprinkle fairy dust on the PP. Could we even buy him out with the salary retention from Toronto? For what it's worth the JJ buyout after this year for AZ would cost something like $1M/year for the next 6 years.

I honestly would not do that.

 

[66-30-33]

How about a 3 way? Kessel goes to Wild, Pens get Zucker, AZ gets Chucky back. Add other pieces if need be.