Keep Tanev or Toffoli?

[Fatass]

Should a team coming out if a rebuild ever have to decide between which top UFAs they can afford to keep, because the GM signed older (less impactful players) to bad contracts?

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Hear me out
Keep both, let Stecher walk and Ferland to LTIR
Trade Virtanen if you needed

Ferland still affects the cap when the season starts, it's only after the season begins that we will get IR relief.

If Vancouver keeps Tanev, Toffoli, and Markstrom, I'm thinking some huge moves need to be made. They would let Stecher and Leivo walk. They would package Virtanen with Eriksson and maybe add another sweetener. They would trade Sutter, Baertschi, and maybe even Beagle/Roussel with prospects and picks. Even then, I'm not 100% sure the team fits under the cap depending on how much each player re-signs for. Tanev does strike me was the type of guy who will take a slight discount to stay in Vancouver as he seems to really like it here (maybe $1 mill less per year if we're lucky).

 

[timw33]

Tanev is still a very important piece of this team and would love to find a way to keep him if it fits into our cap structure.

 

[sting101]

Error - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

how about this?

 

[vanarchy]

I think we'd be relatively fine without Toffoli. I can't say the same about Tanev.

There's your answer.

 

[BB06]

I'd look to keep both on 3 year deals around 5ish M dollars.

 

[Pennask]

Here's my order of priority on our UFA's. Markstrom, Tanev, Toffoli.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Here's my order of priority on our UFA's. Markstrom, Tanev, Toffoli.

I agree with this.
Crazy how there was a 10% swing in the votes (from Toffoli to Tanev) once I bumped this thread after last game.

 

[ahmon]

I always consider Tanev as one of the best defensive dman in all of hockey.

He's not that old.

Not resigning him would be like repeating the mistake of not resigning Mitchell.

No one on the canucks can defend like him.

I'd argue its easier to find offensive dman than defensive dman like Tanev.

 

[VanJack]

I always consider Tanev as one of the best defensive dman in all of hockey.

He's not that old.

Not resigning him would be like repeating the mistake of not resigning Mitchell.

No one on the canucks can defend like him.

I'd argue its easier to find offensive dman than defensive dman like Tanev.

Tanev is a 'feel-good' story for the Canucks, given his injury struggles and how much of a warrior he's been on some of the bad Canuck teams in recent seasons.

But the 2020 version of Tanev is light years away from being 'the best defensive d-man in all of hockey'. In fact, I really don't think he had very strong season, particularly in his own zone. He's steady defensively but far too vulnerable to a hard forecheck. Then there's the injuries. Up until this season, he's missed between 20-20 games every year.

On the positive side, he's formed a serious bond and chemistry with Hughes. And for that reason you'd love to see him back.

But the Canucks simply can't pay him $5-$6m a season with a 4-5 year contract term. And that's what it'll take to re-sign him If the Canucks didn't have so many debilitating contracts in their bottom-six forward group, they could easily afford him. But sadly, my bet is that he still walks at the end of the season unless he accepts a big 'home-town discount'. And why would he and his agent ever agree to do that?

 

[VancouverJagger]

I know we are all exuberant over Tanev atm and it's hard to see our D without him but I would only consider signing him if we can get 2 mayyyyyybe 3 years at a hometown discount. Mayyyyyybe 4 mill a year? Otherwise far too much risk involved with a player of his injury history.

I get the feeling Benning is going to lock in on re-signing Toffoli though maybe the playoffs will alter that viewpoint (he kind of has to in order to not look bad) - he tends to do this with things he wants (Beagle.........Myers etc).
So far it's kind of shown that we don't really need Toffoli...........Tanev........well I can't really say the same thing about him.

 

[ahmon]

Tanev is a 'feel-good' story for the Canucks, given his injury struggles and how much of a warrior he's been on some of the bad Canuck teams in recent seasons.

But the 2020 version of Tanev is light years away from being 'the best defensive d-man in all of hockey'. In fact, I really don't think he had very strong season, particularly in his own zone. He's steady defensively but far too vulnerable to a hard forecheck. Then there's the injuries. Up until this season, he's missed between 20-20 games every year.

On the positive side, he's formed a serious bond and chemistry with Hughes. And for that reason you'd love to see him back.

But the Canucks simply can't pay him $5-$6m a season with a 4-5 year contract term. And that's what it'll take to re-sign him If the Canucks didn't have so many debilitating contracts in their bottom-six forward group, they could easily afford him. But sadly, my bet is that he still walks at the end of the season unless he accepts a big 'home-town discount'. And why would he and his agent ever agree to do that?

We can't pay a 31 year old Tanev 5-6 m for 4 years but we can pay an Alex Edler 6 m until he's 35?

tanev easily is better than Myers, why we paying him 6 mil, but can't pay a superior dman less?

Tanev easily over Edler or Myers.

Beagle is 34 is a 4th line C. we can't keep a Tanev who plays with Hughes our #1 dman, but keep our 4th line C?

this is absurd.

5 million for 4 years and I do that easily.

 

[GetFocht]

Tanev with 4 points in 4 games in the playoffs to go along with his defence prowess and fearlessness of play is going to cost a lot of money. He's going to have teams salivating over him, especially with ones that have good young defenceman.

 

[MarkMM]

We can't pay a 31 year old Tanev 5-6 m for 4 years but we can pay an Alex Edler 6 m until he's 35?

tanev easily is better than Myers, why we paying him 6 mil, but can't pay a superior dman less?

Tanev easily over Edler or Myers.

Beagle is 34 is a 4th line C. we can't keep a Tanev who plays with Hughes our #1 dman, but keep our 4th line C?

this is absurd.

5 million for 4 years and I do that easily.

It's not that Tanev in isolation isn't worth it, it's that in the context of the spectacularly stupid decisions made by Benning over and over again here we are, looking at which good value player we're going to have to lose because Benning has blown our resources on idiotic junk.

As many on this board have been warning for years over the wild protestations of Benning defenders.

"Cap doesn't matter for a rebuilding team." Yeah-huh

 

[Bgav]

We really can’t afford to lose Tanev

 

[Pennask]

As good as Tanev is, this is his first healthy season in the NHL. I'd love to resign the healthy Tanev but having him slide back into injury prone Tanev concerns me.

 

[BB06]

As good as Tanev is, this is his first healthy season in the NHL. I'd love to resign the healthy Tanev but having him slide back into injury prone Tanev concerns me no matter how good he's been this season.

Not really he was week to week as the season ended. So had it continued he would’ve been injured for the remainder of it.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I'd sign which one of Markstom, Tanev, or Toffoli take the most team friendly deal. Potential Ferland LTIR and having to be 3.5m under the cap if so for training camp really complicates things.

 

[Vancouver_2010]

We really can’t afford to lose Tanev

If only Benning didn't made that stupid and pointless trade for Toffoli, then we wouldn't have that problem.

 

[Pennask]

If only Benning didn't made that stupid and pointless trade for Toffoli, then we wouldn't have that problem.

I dont understand. TT's contract is up. How is it in the way of affording Tanev?

 

[Kryten]

Depends on term I guess but even 60 games of Tanev a year is likely better than 80 from the type of D Benning would replace him with

 

[canuckfan75]

They will do everything to keep Tanev. he is loved in the room and Green and Benning love him too

 

[GiveYourHeadaShake]

The problem with Tanev is he is offensively (except for last night) mostly useless. He has never taken a shot that you cannot track from his stick towards the net as it drops to the ice before even getting there. Even if he stops 90% of scoring chances against, he participates in 0% of creating offensive chances. He is the defence equivalent of Jay Beagle. He is just not worth the cost of Toffoli's current contract.

It is irrelevant that he looks great in our end most of the time. He has way more opportunity to look great there, because that is where he always is when we notice him. Same as Beagle. He is rarely doing anything useful when the puck is out of our end. And he only once this year (a recent game) looked useful out of our end. A team of any combination of Tanev's and Beagle's and Erikisson's and Sutter's, which would exceed the cap, could well lose every game they played. Maybe 1-0 losses. But all losses. (Except for last night.)

The object of the game is to score more goals than the other guys, not to be really effective inside your own blue line and let somebody else worry about scoring.

If a defenceman cannot play offence at all, the max he should make is $2 million. If the player is a forward, that drops to the league minimum. You can always find guys with a motor who can't score. Tanev scores a game winner almost every 10 years, so I would be happy to pay him $3,000,000.

We pissed away at least 5 productive Sedin years because we had only 1 offensive line. The plan to shut the Canucks down was easy. Now with Toffoli, we have 2 actual offensive lines. Opposing coaches need to think who will cover our top 6 now, instead of loading up their top 5 against the only line that could threaten to score every shift. I guarantee you no opposing coaches have ever stayed up at night wondering how to neutralize Tanev.

People lining up to give Tanev the money Toffoli now gets and should continue to get (but he will ask for more and may get it somewhere else) should get in line to replace Benning, because they are drinking his Kool-Aid. You are not foundational (whatever the eff that means) because you block shots. What blocking a lot of shots means is you are in your own end way too much. Sutter by the way, several years and injuries (from blocking shots) later, remains the ONLY free agent forward in league history to get over $4 million AAV on a long term contract who never scored over 40 points in a year before (or after for that matter) getting the big money.

Having completed my rant, I agree Tanev is an NHL top 4 or 5 defenceman who any team in the league wouldbe pleased to have on their roster, even if only for the LTIR cap space. He is worth substantially more than the 6 Canucks forwards who are paid so much that our cap is screwed (Beagle, Sutter, Ferland, Errikkson, Rouselle, Baertschi, am I missing anyone?) but Toffoli is not one of them.

 

[tyhee]

I dont understand. TT's contract is up. How is it in the way of affording Tanev?

Two things:

1. The thread is which one to sign for next season. Both contracts are expiring. Signing Toffoli would get in the way of affording Tanev (or Markstrom, or some other player or players.)

2. This year's cap hit for Toffoli (thankfully for only part of a season) will reduce money to pay bonuses for this year on Pettersson and Hughes. Those bonuses have to get accounted for next season and reduce cap available to pay Tanev and others next season.

 

[datboichoi]

Tanev is such an interesting player because he went from being an analytics darling that was objectively the best defensive defender in the sport to absolutely sucking analytics wise. Despite bad analytics he still somehow every year despite how awful this team is plays against other teams best player in extremely tough deployment and outscores his opposition. Just a very rare case and as a guy that watches every Canucks game this guy is such an integral part of this team.