Confirmed with Link: Kasperi Kapanen traded back to Pittsburgh - Part II

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

The frustrating thing about JR is that often even in trades that he "wins", he still somehow manages to overpay.

 

[Ryder71]

You’re in a hurry to start something that doesn’t need to be started yet.

We obviously have a fundamental disagreement here. Sid and Geno continue to age and the tolls on their bodies continue to pile up. Each has sustained serious injuries over their time here. Beyond that we have a coach and a GM who insist Jack Johnson isn't a problem. I honestly can't see much in the way of a path forward here.

 

[Ryder71]

The frustrating thing about JR is that often even in trades that he "wins", he still somehow manages to overpay.

The Marino trade is an exception but I largely agree.

He should have gotten a 3rd or 4th rounder back from the Leafs in such a deal. Possibly a mid rounder in the Zucker trade as well. He is just too cavalier with our future when it comes to parting draft picks.

I like the fact he goes into the college ranks however. Hopefully we can get a good two way center next year out of college. As he's done a ton of damage with draft picks.

 

[Ryder71]

People keep comparing this to previous 15OVA.

The consensus is that this is one of those drafts that would make a player taken at 15 a top ten pick most years.

The number of forwards averaging almost 1.5 points a game is almost unprecedented. Add in a goalie that has been called Price level, a couple of consensus top ten defensemen and you need to compare the 15 OVA to most year's top ten picks, not previous year's 15 OVA.

I've been harping on this for months now. This is a very deep draft and I agree. A top 15 pick here might easily translate to a top eight or top ten pick in most other drafts. Again I like KK, but we didn't extract fair value here. And some suggest that we soiled the bed with Pouliot. And yes there's a chance we could soil the bed and make a mistake in who we would have taken. But DP was drafted by Shero's regime , not Rutherfords. Hell, we have no picks in the first two rounds. That's just awful.

This was a golden opportunity where by we had no business drafting that high and we squandered it with little in the way of value. By all rights we should be drafting 24th or later, which obviously would have given the pick to the Wild.

 

[EightyOne]

JR is such a dumb f***.

Leafs want to get rid of AJ, Freddie, and Kapanen to make cap space.

JR gives up way more than he should, for Kapanen. He could have pulled off another deal to get the other two, dump Murray and maybe get them to take JJ while giving up that 1st and taking back a little more salary, then he would have needed to just dump Bjugstad and maybe see if McCann is still worth it.

Andreas makes the Pens harder to play against.
Kapanen does too.
Andersen definitely would with a tandem with Jarry for 1 year to have a buffer too.
Literally removing JJ does as well.
Taking away the toys of JJ and MM does as well

What would that have been, 11.2m coming to the Pens and off the Leafs roster.
Leafs add Murray and JJ's contract, which would still save them 4-5m give or take a couple hundred grand?

But yeah, let's just sit back and watch this shit show unfold.

Insert "this isn't ea sports, reeeee, let jimmy do his maaaagic!"

 

[Empoleon8771]

If Dubas wants to get rid of Andersen, I hope he does and then trades the 1st back to Pittsburgh for Murray

And then JR trades the 1st again to make this place mad again

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

If Dubas wants to get rid of Andersen, I hope he does and then trades the 1st back to Pittsburgh for Murray

And then JR trades the 1st again to make this place mad again

At that point I would just be in awe of the troll job by JR, what with involving the same 1st round pick not once not twice but 3 damn times

 

[The Old Master]

And yes there's a chance we could soil the bed and make a mistake in who we would have taken..

there was also a chance that we could of got a future replacement for sid or geno. if we are talking chances.

 

[Headshot77]

this was from DK...JR quote...sounds like he thinks they’re still 25

“I’ve got Sidney Crosby. I’ve got Evgeni Malkin. When you’ve got those guys and Kris Letang, you don’t just wait for two or three years to get help through the draft. You can’t do that"... "We’ve got these guys here now, and we’re going to do everything we can to get younger around them to help them. Maybe that’ll cost us down the road. In fact, I’m sure it will. But when you’ve got a group like this …”

No, this sounds like Rutherford knows they only have two years left.

 

[Freeptop]

When Sid and Geno retire, it's going to hurt. There's no replacing them. They're the kind of players that only come around every few years, and only at the very top of the draft. When that happens, the rebuild will likely be at least 3-5 years in length. No, I don't think the Pens can re-tool and stay relevant once Sid and Geno retire. That's too big of a talent gap to bridge. The whole team will need to be redesigned around a new identity at that point.

Here's the hard reality: even if the Pens had a different GM who was stockpiling prospects right now, chances are, most of them would be gone by the time the rebuild is complete. They'd get tired of the losing during the rebuild, and be ready to move on as quickly as they could. Sid and Geno are likely to stick around for, say, 2-3 more years. Add 3-5 years of rebuild on top of that. That's 5-8 years from now that the team is ready to return to the playoffs, much less contend for the Cup. And that's assuming the Pens pull the plug as soon as Sid and Geno retire, and immediately go into rebuild mode, and don't instead try to hang on for a few more years of playoff revenue, ala the post-Lidstrom Red Wings.

If you think that anyone that's currently on the team will still be around after they go through the next rebuild, try looking at the 00/01 roster vs the 06/07 one, and tell me how many players are on both.

I think JR overpaid to get Kapanen, and I do have a problem with that. I don't think he needed to give up both the 15th overall and Hallander, especially not without getting any picks back in return. But I don't have a problem with the concept of trading the 15th overall pick at this time. Do whatever you can to try to win at least one more Cup while you still have Sid and Geno. Once they're done, blow it all up, and rebuild at that point.

It's the natural life cycle of an NHL team. The teams that try to smooth out the valleys end up also smoothing out the peaks. The Pens didn't go that route, and as a result, they added three more banners during the Sid and Geno years. It would be nice to get another, but looking at the last 15 years as anything other than a huge success is to reveal just how spoiled we've been.

 

[Ryder71]

there was also a chance that we could of got a future replacement for sid or geno. if we are talking chances.

Not likely that caliber of player but generally speaking we could have gotten a nice piece for the future. Now, not so much.

 

[Headshot77]

The value sucks but the team got better. In two years this franchise is going to be a bottom dweller anyway so burning assets isn't really a big deal. Worst that can happen is that it makes the rebuild last an extra year.

 

[66-30-33]

If Dubas wants to get rid of Andersen, I hope he does and then trades the 1st back to Pittsburgh for Murray

And then JR trades the 1st again to make this place mad again

JR trades the 15th OA and Legare for Max Domi.

 

[Ryder71]

The value sucks but the team got better. In two years this franchise is going to be a bottom dweller anyway so burning assets isn't really a big deal. Worst that can happen is that it makes the rebuild last an extra year.

Disagree, if you draft a player now for the future, that'll give him an extra two or three years of development as opposed to waiting until '22 or '23. And who knows the quality of those drafts or even where we might be drafting. With that sort of logic we should trade Poulin for an established NHL 3C. In the short term that in theory would make us better.

 

[Headshot77]

Disagree, if you draft a player now for the future, that'll give him an extra two or three years of development as opposed to waiting until '22 or '23. And who knows the quality of those drafts or even where we might be drafting. With that sort of logic we should trade Poulin for an established NHL 3C. In the short term that in theory would make us better.

Rutherford might actually do that.

 

[Ryder71]

Rutherford might actually do that.

Nothing surprises me with him at this point.

 

[66-30-33]

Disagree, if you draft a player now for the future, that'll give him an extra two or three years of development as opposed to waiting until '22 or '23. And who knows the quality of those drafts or even where we might be drafting. With that sort of logic we should trade Poulin for an established NHL 3C. In the short term that in theory would make us better.

Damn...imagine Poulin for some crappy 3C because he's a vet...trade all our good players for teams bad players because we are "going for it".

All our good players for the other teams bad players plz. We got cups to win!!!

 

[dogthateats]

Erat for Forsberg Pt. 2

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Right, because some of you were on the phone listening in to trade talks and can determine that a multiple Cup winning Hall of Fame GM with like 50 years in the game just got had and stupidly gave up more than he needed to. If only you had negotiated it we would have done it right. What a parody.

Thank God some of you aren't running this team, you'd prematurely end the careers of one of the greatest tandems in the history of the game like 2-3 years before it needs to happen, all to sacrifice at your altar of long-term Cup contention (you hope). Yes, instead of helping our generational superstars try to win one more Cup, you want to relegate them to obscurity in the hope that a cobbled together team of uncertain draft picks can contend in like 5-10 years. Madness.

 

[Turin]

Erat for Forsberg Pt. 2

In what way?

 

[Gurglesons]

In what way?

He’s talking if we move Poulin for a 3C. Which I agree with tbh.

 

[K Fleur]

If you want to feel better about JR overpaying just remember that it doesn’t really matter.

Not when JJ is still going to be playing for us in the playoffs(if we even make it).

 

[dogthateats]

In what way?

Yeah, I was referring to what pixies said.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

If you want to feel better about JR overpaying just remember that it doesn’t really matter.

Not when JJ is still going to be playing for us in the playoffs(if we even make it).

I don’t think that word means what you think it means.


But for real, that makes it so much worse. Say he overpays for a few things but makes a phenomenal roster... they still have a guy who hasn’t won a playoff series since being drafted in 200f***ing5 and they’ll play him real minutes. Remember Hainsey? He became a regular in 2005-2006 and didn’t make the playoffs until 2016-2017. That guy won a cup in less seasons than it took JJ to still not win a series.

Don’t worry, though, JJ is still winning the from when they were drafted war. 17 seasons vs 15 seasons of futility.

 

[The Old Master]

Disagree, if you draft a player now for the future, that'll give him an extra two or three years of development as opposed to waiting until '22 or '23. And who knows the quality of those drafts or even where we might be drafting. With that sort of logic we should trade Poulin for an established NHL 3C. In the short term that in theory would make us better.

that seems to fit jr to a tee.