Karlsson vs Trade 'Haul' Stat Comparison Thread

[Do Make Say Think]

so what type of system would allow Burns to flourish offensively and stifle Karlsson?

How about you watch the Sharks play? You might understand then.

 

[The Lewler]

Looks like @mysens was right:

Well yeah people have been saying this from the beginning. A lot of connected people. A lot.

All of it, Alfie comments, Karlsson behaviour, Leeder comments/silence etc. It all stemmed from that central belief.

 

[foggyvisor]

Looks like @mysens was right:

No, that doesn't prove him right.

 

[Micklebot]

Yup, could be, but I don't see it.

These were comments made early on about the atmosphere in the room. I don't think Duchene was enjoying playing again because there were lower expectations. I also don't see a squad that hits the ice thinking that it's OK to lose because expectations are lower.

I see a team working together to crush outside expectations and having a blast doing it. I'm not discounting that your theory is impossible, but when I listen to what the various players have said, especially including references to drama & oxygen, I read that the catalyst for change is much more likely to have been the departure of the superstar captain.

I don't think it has to be any more complicated than that. You remove a dominant personality from a small room and you're going to create a vacuum. The bigger the personality, the larger the change. Add in Hoffman, and they also removed an entire fiasco form the room as well.

This doesn't mean they don't like the guy, or can't stay friends, but I don't think we have to read to deep into this, it's not complicated, and there is already a ton of smoke to show the way.

But the team was certainly glad to no longer have to hear about Karlsson trade rumours, I bet Ryan was happy no longer to have his name linked to trade talks as well. They probably were affected by the tragedy Karlsson went through with his loss too. There are lots of known reasons why the lockeroom would have had tension, but people are looking to cast blame based on innuendo and vague comments, but in many cases, the conclusions are contrary to past comments. So, did Karlsson go from a positive in the room to a negative? Sure, it's possible, he was having a particularly challenging season, and nobody would begrudge him for being extra abrasive given the circumstances. But even assuming that was the case, does that mean he was a long term problem that needed to go, not so sure.

 

[Ice-Tray]

But the team was certainly glad to no longer have to hear about Karlsson trade rumours, I bet Ryan was happy no longer to have his name linked to trade talks as well. They probably were affected by the tragedy Karlsson went through with his loss too. There are lots of known reasons why the lockeroom would have had tension, but people are looking to cast blame based on innuendo and vague comments, but in many cases, the conclusions are contrary to past comments. So, did Karlsson go from a positive in the room to a negative? Sure, it's possible, he was having a particularly challenging season, and nobody would begrudge him for being extra abrasive given the circumstances. But even assuming that was the case, does that mean he was a long term problem that needed to go, not so sure.

I agree, likely somewhat of a sigh of relief from all parties, though for the organization it was short lived.

I agree that I don't think it was why he was moved. I think that it was an atmospheric change that the team felt after he was gone.

I also don't think there was much personal blame being presented in a sense. I think the guys who spoke still like EK, heck they could all be good friends, but that doesn't mean that they can't recognize, and enjoy, a positive change to the room. This really doesn't have to be so much that EK was a locker room cancer as the extreme arguments tend to leap to. Sometimes relationships go too far down one path and a change is needed, no hard feelings, and it doesn't mean anyone is a 'bad' person. I suspect that everyone wishes EK well, and that he wishes the Sens well.

Ultimately the team and EK couldn't see eye to eye for other reasons I suspect.

 

[Samsquanch]

I hope today even more people become okay with watching Karlsson move on.

He was a heroic player for us here in his prime, and was probably the most dominant player that we've ever had in a Sens jersey.

But Karlsson of the last 2 seasons is not the same player anymore. He's a shadow of his former self in terms of his ability to slow down the game, and rushing the puck.

He's always going to be a corsi monster and will generate a lot of shots and offense through getting pucks to the net, and still makes as good a pass as any dman in the league.

But Ive watched about 12 sharks games this year, and Kalrsson is still the identical player to the one that he was last year (add in a bit of shyness as well).

And no part of me wants to build the team around an 11-12m/year version of this Erik Karlsson.

 

[JD1]

I hope today even more people become okay with watching Karlsson move on.

He was a heroic player for us here in his prime, and was probably the most dominant player that we've ever had in a Sens jersey.

But Karlsson of the last 2 seasons is not the same player anymore. He's a shadow of his former self in terms of his ability to slow down the game, and rushing the puck.

He's always going to be a corsi monster and will generate a lot of shots and offense through getting pucks to the net, and still makes as good a pass as any dman in the league.

But Ive watched about 12 sharks games this year, and Kalrsson is still the identical player to the one that he was last year (add in a bit of shyness as well).

And no part of me wants to build the team around an 11-12m/year version of this Erik Karlsson.

abuse incoming in 3.... 2... . 1

 

[JD1]

No, that doesn't prove him right.

well we've got someone posting what Karlsson was telling friends and we've got what @mysens was posting and it seems to me at least that the content is pretty similar.

perhaps @mysens was making it all up but it seems more likely, given the similarity that he was hearing this from a fairly close connection.

hey maybe the twitter poster is mysens....if we put the tinfoil hat on that works

 

[Samsquanch]

abuse incoming in 3.... 2... . 1

Lol no doubt. I dont care though. It's true if you can take your Karlsson blinders off.

Hearing Dorion post game emphasizing that he intends to sign Duchene and Stone both is extremely encouraging. And if he pulls it off, it will restore my faith somewhat in Dorion.

And it will certainly reinforce the belief that trading Karlsson was the right thing to do for the franchise.

 

[JD1]

Lol no doubt. I dont care though. It's true if you can take your Karlsson blinders off.

Hearing Dorion post game emphasizing that he intends to sign Duchene and Stone both is extremely encouraging. And if he pulls it off, it will restore my faith somewhat in Dorion.

And it will certainly reinforce the belief that trading Karlsson was the right thing to do for the franchise.

what did PD say post game?

what I'm seeing with the kids on the team and the kids coming we're in good shape.

hopefully melnyk signs the cheques

 

[Samsquanch]

what did PD say post game?

what I'm seeing with the kids on the team and the kids coming we're in good shape.

hopefully melnyk signs the cheques

He said the next time he speaks to the media, he hopes its about announcing the extension of one or both of them (paraphrasing here). And made a point to say that it was his plan to sign both.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Better Chance Stone and EK are on the same team next year outside of Ottawa (looking at you philly) then they are both in Ottawa

How does that work?

How can Stone and EK be on the same team (outside of Ottawa) and then be in Ottawa together?

Are they both traded to Ottawa from the team outside of Ottawa?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

"Karlsson was king in Ottawa. That the Senators system was built around him is just part of it. The dressing room belonged to him. What he decided on got done. Practice times, days off, players outings … all of it.
Did you think Guy Boucher told Karlsson what was what when he was given another chance to coach in the NHL? No way. Boucher’s a smart man. He knew his best chance at survival was to have Karlsson on his side."
Don Brennan


"Karlsson is no doubt feeling anxious about the homecoming. He never wanted to leave Ottawa, or at least that’s what he led people to believe. Days before the start of Senators training camp, he apparently told friends he wasn’t going anywhere, that Eugene Melnyk was selling the team, Daniel Alfredsson was joining the new ownership group and he would be signing a new, long-term deal."
Don Brennan


"However, there was a cloud of dissension within the dressing room throughout the abysmal 2017-18 season. It got worse as the season went on, leading to the “broken” dressing room that general manager Pierre Dorion referred to while making major changes before and after the trade deadline.
Stone defended Karlsson against suggestions that the former captain was solely responsible for the dysfunction.
“There are tons of different personalities in a locker room, so there are 23 guys that have to mix together to form a team,” said Stone.
“It’s different with those types of players. When they are that good, guys are sometimes nervous to be around guys like that. But for him, he was very welcoming to every guy who entered this locker room.”
Ken Warren



Ottawa Sun Poll.
The adjustment period with Sharks has passed for Erik Karlsson
In hindsight, were the Sens right to trade Erik Karlsson?
Yes 51.63% (982 votes)
No 32.7% (622 votes)
Eventually yes 15.67% (298 votes)

Total Votes: 1,902




Ottawa Sun Poll.
Erik Karlsson says he has no regrets as he returns to Ottawa
In hindsight, was the Erik Karlsson trade a good move for the Senators?
Yes 44.67% (453 votes)
No 38.26% (388 votes)
Still not sure 17.06% (173 votes)

Total Votes: 1,014

 

[DaveMatthew]

"Karlsson was king in Ottawa. That the Senators system was built around him is just part of it. The dressing room belonged to him. What he decided on got done. Practice times, days off, players outings … all of it.
Did you think Guy Boucher told Karlsson what was what when he was given another chance to coach in the NHL? No way. Boucher’s a smart man. He knew his best chance at survival was to have Karlsson on his side."

Don Brennan

Well then, Guy Boucher and Pierre Dorion should both be fired, if this is true.

One day soon Brady Tkachuk will be a star. Will they let him run the show as well?

Another reason why you can't hand the keys to a rookie GM who should be a scout and a budget coach.

A guy like Quennevile can handle stars, whether it's Pronger or Kane, who guess what, also have big egos. That's why he's a winner.

 

[Micklebot]

How does that work?

How can Stone and EK be on the same team (outside of Ottawa) and then be in Ottawa together?

Are they both traded to Ottawa from the team outside of Ottawa?

Philly Road game in Ottawa, duh.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Philly Road game in Ottawa, duh.

He was talking about the chances of Stone and EK being Senators, next season, vs the chances they're both on another team (not Ottawa) next season .........duh

 

[coladin]

well we've got someone posting what Karlsson was telling friends and we've got what @mysens was posting and it seems to me at least that the content is pretty similar.

perhaps @mysens was making it all up but it seems more likely, given the similarity that he was hearing this from a fairly close connection.

hey maybe the twitter poster is mysens....if we put the tinfoil hat on that works

Yup. And he isn't on Twitter. And at the game today, spoke to some people who confirmed what was said. The "prominent" Ottaws family was ready to get in until the Lebreton deal collapsed. Also heard today that he won't sell especially now as the value plummeted with the failure of Lebreton.

It was speculated today that the next opportunity to sell will be when Seattle is officially in. Sorry.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Why are people surprised? It wasn't just mysens. My guy, who has become really distant from sens organization heard same thing. Karlsson absolutely loves Ottawa and never wanted to leave and Melnyk was supposed to be gone. He and his wife are miserable not cause they don't like SJ, but because worst case scenario happened to EK.

To be dead serious, I believe even Dorion thought Melnyk was done for and thats why he traded Hoffman for nothing. I have no idea of the details of how Melnyk held on but something drastic or whatever happened. Karlsson was supposed to remain.

 

[Micklebot]

Philly Road game in Ottawa, duh.

Right, there's a better chance they'll sign in Philly, then they be in ottawa on a road trip. You asked how it worked, that's how.

 

[Samsquanch]

Why are people surprised? It wasn't just mysens. My guy, who has become really distant from sens organization heard same thing. Karlsson absolutely loves Ottawa and never wanted to leave and Melnyk was supposed to be gone. He and his wife are miserable not cause they don't like SJ, but because worst case scenario happened to EK.

To be dead serious, I believe even Dorion thought Melnyk was done for and thats why he traded Hoffman for nothing. I have no idea of the details of how Melnyk held on but something drastic or whatever happened. Karlsson was supposed to remain.

Really odd day to make that statement........

Its funny how Boedker was given literally no grace period after moving to a new city and adjusting to a new team. And for also having a supposed horrendous start to his season this, he has more points than Karlsson..for whatever that is worth...

He's a good addition to the top 9. And I dont still wish Mike Hoffman was here either.

 

[The Lewler]

Really odd day to make that statement........

Its funny how Boedker was given literally no grace period after moving to a new city and adjusting to a new team. And for also having a supposed horrendous start to his season this, he has more points than Karlsson..for whatever that is worth...

He's a good addition to the top 9. And I dont still wish Mike Hoffman was here either.

We get it. You think Karlsson is now a very good to elite RD, but will never be dominant again, and the Sens did the right thing.

 

[Samsquanch]

We get it. You think Karlsson is now a very good to elite RD, but will never be dominant again, and the Sens did the right thing.

Truth hurts I suppose...

You dont have to come in this thread if you know your going to read opinions about Karlsson (on the day of his return no less).

I'll repeat my opinion loud and clear for all to hear, especially when I seem to be the only one saying it, and it's somewhat hard to disprove right now..

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Truth hurts I suppose...

You dont have to come in this thread if you know your going to read opinions about Karlsson (on the day of his return no less).

I'll repeat my opinion loud and clear for all to hear, especially when I seem to be the only one saying it, and it's somewhat hard to disprove right now..

It isn't proven either.

Sounds like the jury is out on this matter.

 

[Samsquanch]

It isn't proven either.

Sounds like the jury is out on this matter.

The jury will never be in. We will never know what this team could have been if Karlsson had stayed instead.

Doesn't mean we that cant speculate on it though..

I can only imagine how depressing and dreary this place would be if we didnt have all Chabot and all of this young firepower to watch.

Even still, I seem to be in the small minority with my belief things have worked out really great for us, based on most objective evidence at hand.

Sue me for being an optimist I guess boys...

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The jury will never be in. We will never know what this team could have been if Karlsson had stayed instead.

Doesn't mean we that cant speculate on it though..

I can only imagine how depressing and dreary this place would be if we didnt have all Chabot and all of this young firepower to watch.

Even still, I seem to be in the small minority with my belief things have worked out really great for us, based on most objective evidence at hand.

Sue me for being an optimist I guess boys...

This has nothing to do with optimism. You said the Sens were shrewd in trading away Karlsson because his best days were behind him.

We shall find out if you were right in the not-so-distant future.