Karlsson vs Trade 'Haul' Stat Comparison Thread

[danielpalfredsson]

Burns gets most of his points by pounding the puck on net from the blue line and that's how the Sharks have their d play.

Karlsson creates more by roving and off the rush and he has been limited in doing that .

Just go check out the Sharks forum and their own posters have mentioned the Sharks system on how they use their D isn't conducive to Karlsson

I have like 5-6 Karlsson games on my computer I have to catch up on. I just like to watch his shifts to see how he is playing.

Talking about him being limited in roving is right. I've only seen maybe 4-5 of his games starting from a few weeks ago, but he is playing completely differently. For the most part, he isn't jumping in the play or roving a lot in the o-zone unless it is an absolute 100 percent safe chance. He's maintaining the blue line in the o-zone and being used to recover/transition the puck. He isn't even skating it through the neutral zone from line to line, usually he looks for the pass to a waiting forward.

Of course....this could have changed. I think I'm like 5 games behind....Maybe I'll have to catch up on Karl games tonight.

 

[GCK]

Karlsson is not playing any worse than he did last year. The numbers are down, but he is playing on a team where he is the "new guy". In Ottawa he was the focal point and took it upon himself to have the puck as much as possible, including on the PP. Now you can't blame Karlsson, the coaches even before Boucher, encouraged this. I am still happy he wasn't signed for 8 years at 11+M here, but I think he may actually become a more valuable hockey player on a good team for the next few years due to the different philosophy he is exposed to this year.

 

[Ice-Tray]

It's just Occam's razor. **** its not a grand conspiracy orchestrated by Melnyk. It's media 101.

You have tapped out the Melnyk outrage clicks at this point. Everyone knows he's a dunce. No one is listening anymore.

What draws more eyeballs than controversy? So you float some stories about Karlsson being 'not an angel', or a problem, and then Karlsson feeds into it like an idiot just prior to arrival.

Mana from heaven for the media. Even if you don't believe a word of it, you play up the controversy and get more views.

That's it.

Yeah, that’s not Occam’s razor dude.

You look at the disaster the team was last year, how bad and disinterested EK was on the ice last year, then you listen to everything at least a half dozen members of the team have said either directly about EK, or about how great the room is this year as opposed to last year, and then you start to see that what’s coming out now is just a clearer picture of what many of us already could see.

The simplest explanation is that EK was an issue that came to a head last year, all evidence points to this. Fanboys don’t want to hear it, and folks who put hating EM first don’t want to hear it, and unfortunatly there are lots of both around here.

I do love how you try and trot out media conspiracy and manipulation as the most likely explanation.....

 

[Ice-Tray]

The media is scum, and full of scumbags. You attack one of theri own, whether Ken Warren or the time is nigh guy, and they reveal little snippets like cowards once they leave. American media markets are always the same way. Here in Ottawa, they are bunch of young kittens that grow into lions when people leave.

Stevenson always knew. Wallace always knew. Why now to reveal this on the eve of his return? I hate it. Karlsson doesn't deserve it and it truly taints what should be a triumphant homecoming of sorts.

Because typically you don’t try and undermine the team you cover. It’s the exact same reason why no one on the team said anything until EK was gone.

Common sense here.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Hear hear, let's celebrate the guy.

I do have to say that, for me personally, Stevenson is one of my favourite media guys. His hockey takes are very similar to mine, what he sees and what he perceives. Definitely not in the league of Brennan and Garrioch and Warren. He is Roy McGregor level to me, Wayne Scanlan. Which is why this bothered me so much, the timing. The veracity, my gut tells me he saw quite a bit, but the timing is terrible and Karlsson does not desevre this.

I guaranfreakingtee you that if Karlsson simply said he would not address the Ottawa game and "next question" none of this would have made the light of day. I hope Karlsson doesn't take their questions today.

I agree that the timing was lame, though if there was ever a time for guys to break this out, this would be it from a media standpoint.

EK deserves the loud ovation he’ll get, but I think some folks have used their voices about what went on as a means to counter the basically unopposed opinions that EK was awesome and was victimized by the organization.

The truth is probably closer to everyone in the organization is looking forward to celebrating his return, but it’s doubtful that they want him back on the team.

 

[The Lewler]

Yeah, that’s not Occam’s razor dude.

You look at the disaster the team was last year, how bad and disinterested EK was on the ice last year, then you listen to everything at least a half dozen members of the team have said either directly about EK, or about how great the room is this year as opposed to last year, and then you start to see that what’s coming out now is just a clearer picture of what many of us already could see.

The simplest explanation is that EK was an issue that came to a head last year, all evidence points to this. Fanboys don’t want to hear it, and folks who put hating EM first don’t want to hear it, and unfortunatly there are lots of both around here.

I do love how you try and trot out media conspiracy and manipulation as the most likely explanation.....

K.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

You'd think the average person would be more media savvy in this day and age.

 

[Sensung]

You'd think the average person would be more media savvy in this day and age.

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people

 

[foggyvisor]

Yeah, that’s not Occam’s razor dude.

You look at the disaster the team was last year, how bad and disinterested EK was on the ice last year, then you listen to everything at least a half dozen members of the team have said either directly about EK, or about how great the room is this year as opposed to last year, and then you start to see that what’s coming out now is just a clearer picture of what many of us already could see.

The simplest explanation is that EK was an issue that came to a head last year, all evidence points to this. Fanboys don’t want to hear it, and folks who put hating EM first don’t want to hear it, and unfortunatly there are lots of both around here.

I do love how you try and trot out media conspiracy and manipulation as the most likely explanation.....

Do you think all of Mark Messier's teammates liked him?

 

[foggyvisor]

.

The truth is probably closer to everyone in the organization is looking forward to celebrating his return, but it’s doubtful that they want him back on the team.

So if your team won the Stanley Cup but there was discord in the dressing room, you'd return the Cup? "Getting along" takes priority over winning?

 

[Karl Prime]

You know, Duchene's start with the Sens and Karlsson's start with the Sharks have been pretty similar. Duchene was playing decently but not getting points, and the same has kind of happened with Karlsson although to a lesser extent (15 in 26 to 10 in 26). Duchene spent 8 years in Colorado, Erik 9 here. Duchene came around and was real good the second half of last season and he's carried it over this year in a big way. I could really see EK putting up 55ish points this year (not EK numbers but better than peak Redden) and playing better in the 2nd half and in the playoffs should they make it.

 

[JungleBeat]

Not buying what Stevenson is selling. He gained a lot of popularity during this offseason because of Karlsson and he’s trying to continue it with this weak take.

 

[coladin]

Because typically you don’t try and undermine the team you cover. It’s the exact same reason why no one on the team said anything until EK was gone.

Common sense here.

I get that, but the NY Post doesn't mince words. The players are obliged to fulfill their obligations . I find American media outlets more demanding on players. The Philadelphia Enquirer is also quite genuine in their coverage.

The media has to do their job better in Ottawa.

 

[Karl Prime]

Burns leads the rush quite a bit. Also with Sharks experienced forwards they can better cover up when a dMan moves up ice. Maybe Karlsson is not getting to take off up the ice ever chance he gets like in Ottawa but still gets the opportunity to do so. He just hasn't been as good as in previous years.

Burns doesn't lead the rush much at all. Besides, one of the issues with the Sharks is that with their insistence on getting lots of point shots, that has led to many odd-man rushes because teams have scouted it. They are trying to play like Vegas but without the team speed and commitment to defense from the forwards.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Do you think all of Mark Messier's teammates liked him?

Absolutely not, and personally I think that the guys still like EK as a person and respect him as a player. It's just possible that things came to a head last year and change of scenery was needed for everyone.

Hey, maybe it's only a temporary change, can EK come back to a Stone captained team?

 

[Ice-Tray]

So if your team won the Stanley Cup but there was discord in the dressing room, you'd return the Cup? "Getting along" takes priority over winning?

No not at all. Everyone doesn't have to get along, but they do have to play along.

 

[Tuna99]

Absolutely not, and personally I think that the guys still like EK as a person and respect him as a player. It's just possible that things came to a head last year and change of scenery was needed for everyone.

Hey, maybe it's only a temporary change, can EK come back to a Stone captained team?

Better Chance Stone and EK are on the same team next year outside of Ottawa (looking at you philly) then they are both in Ottawa

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

One thing I don't buy is players being pissed at Karlsson because of the lack of practice last year...

like first off, the Captain shouldn't ever dictate when the team practices that is the coaching staff's job. The captain can advocate to the head coach for a day off, like Alfy used to, but only when the team really needs it.

Second, Karlsson clearly needed less practice and more time to heal, he was going through A LOT both mentally and physically... off season surgery, loss of child, up coming contact situation and the Hoffman spouse drama. That's a lot for one person and you'd think some of the players would cut him some slack.

Third, if players in the room had those concerns, they needed to express it and have open dialogue in order to find a decent resolution.. Instead it seems like the ones who were displeased with how Karlsson was acting ganged up to oppose him and created further division within the room, yet media solely blames Karlsson.

Everyone better cheer their lungs out when EK hits the ice today... oh and start the Melnyk sucks chant.

 

[The Lewler]

Legit question, has Brent Wallace fallen and hit his head recently?

Oh and:

This is not Erik Karlsson’s fault

 

[Ice-Tray]

I get that, but the NY Post doesn't mince words. The players are obliged to fulfill their obligations . I find American media outlets more demanding on players. The Philadelphia Enquirer is also quite genuine in their coverage.

The media has to do their job better in Ottawa.

Judging by the state of the fan base right now, and how little it took to get there, and I'm not sure the team could survive hard hitting coverage.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Better Chance Stone and EK are on the same team next year outside of Ottawa (looking at you philly) then they are both in Ottawa

Yeah, I don't think EK is coming back, nor do I really want him to. It was more a conciliatory ending sentence. I also don't think that Stone would sign on to a team to play with EK again.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah, that’s not Occam’s razor dude.

You look at the disaster the team was last year, how bad and disinterested EK was on the ice last year, then you listen to everything at least a half dozen members of the team have said either directly about EK, or about how great the room is this year as opposed to last year, and then you start to see that what’s coming out now is just a clearer picture of what many of us already could see.

The simplest explanation is that EK was an issue that came to a head last year, all evidence points to this. Fanboys don’t want to hear it, and folks who put hating EM first don’t want to hear it, and unfortunatly there are lots of both around here.

I do love how you try and trot out media conspiracy and manipulation as the most likely explanation.....

That's one possibility, I suspect though that part of the reason the players talk about how much better the room is has to do with expectations. Last season, they weren't meeting expectations which were set quite high, and that makes a team sour pretty fast. This season, expectations are much lower, so nobody is upset about not meeting expectations.

I also suspect that after last season, tension in the dressing room was identified as an issue, regardless of what the causes were, they made an action plan to improve team unity. That's likely also a part of why players are happier in the room today.

Dealing with losing is a lot easier when that's what's expected. That's frankly the simplest explanation as to why players are happier in the room this year. Now, maybe part of why losing was tough last year is because of how Karlsson specifically dealt with losing, who knows, but saying the room is better because Karlsson is gone is a bit too simplistic an explanation. Karlsson being traded signaled that expectations were changing, so perhaps you can't do that with him still here, who knows.

 

[Ice-Tray]

That's one possibility, I suspect though that part of the reason the players talk about how much better the room is has to do with expectations. Last season, they weren't meeting expectations which were set quite high, and that makes a team sour pretty fast. This season, expectations are much lower, so nobody is upset about not meeting expectations.

I also suspect that after last season, tension in the dressing room was identified as an issue, regardless of what the causes were, they made an action plan to improve team unity. That's likely also a part of why players are happier in the room today.

Dealing with losing is a lot easier when that's what's expected. That's frankly the simplest explanation as to why players are happier in the room this year. Now, maybe part of why losing was tough last year is because of how Karlsson specifically dealt with losing, who knows, but saying the room is better because Karlsson is gone is a bit too simplistic an explanation. Karlsson being traded signaled that expectations were changing, so perhaps you can't do that with him still here, who knows.

Yup, could be, but I don't see it.

These were comments made early on about the atmosphere in the room. I don't think Duchene was enjoying playing again because there were lower expectations. I also don't see a squad that hits the ice thinking that it's OK to lose because expectations are lower.

I see a team working together to crush outside expectations and having a blast doing it. I'm not discounting that your theory is impossible, but when I listen to what the various players have said, especially including references to drama & oxygen, I read that the catalyst for change is much more likely to have been the departure of the superstar captain.

I don't think it has to be any more complicated than that. You remove a dominant personality from a small room and you're going to create a vacuum. The bigger the personality, the larger the change. Add in Hoffman, and they also removed an entire fiasco form the room as well.

This doesn't mean they don't like the guy, or can't stay friends, but I don't think we have to read to deep into this, it's not complicated, and there is already a ton of smoke to show the way.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Yeah, I don't think EK is coming back, nor do I really want him to. It was more a conciliatory ending sentence. I also don't think that Stone would sign on to a team to play with EK again.

This I actually agree with

 

[Silencio]

Looks like @mysens was right: