Kap or A-Jo?

[Razz]

Obviously, I'd want to keep both but that's going to be tough next season. If I had to choose, Kappy is the clear choice. He's younger, one of the fastest players in the league in my opinion, and is good in all situations (PP, PK and 5v5). He's a keeper, no doubt in my mind.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Kappy.

 

[Menzinger]

we can keep all 3.

And there’s zero tangible evidence that a Dubas has any intention of not doing that.

Smart GMs move out lesser guys before their better players, especially when cap is the main consideration.

 

[Censored23]

Remember when people here were super pissed that we got Kapanen instead of Pouliot in the Kessel trade?

Good times...

 

[qqaz]

I wish that Nylander had been the guy to go. His contribution to the team is not that much higher than these two, and yet he's making a boatload and has been told he won't be traded. But alas..

Johnsson is the lesser player, all things considered. But this team is past the point of having to worry about asset management above all else. We don't need to be getting the absolute best value in every player transaction. We need to be getting the best on-ice contribution. And the team clearly needs LW more than RW.

Trade Kappy in the offseason to a scoring starved team. Colorado, Arizona, or someone like that should be willing to pay for talent. As long as the return is someone who can contribute next season, and makes way less money.

 

[Clark4Ever]

If it has to be done, I would rather sacrifice AJ in a package to acquire to a top 4 RHD.

Kapanen should be a part of our future core in my opinion.

 

[kb]

If you're having trouble understanding my posts, that's on you and I don't have the time or energy to teach English, I'm here to talk about hockey.

How about being respectful to the other people here and keeping the discussion on topic (see the thread title). You seem to be obsessed with the desire to trade Kadri, if you can't stop talking about that then you could at least do it in the Kadri thread.

I understand your posts perfectly. You don't acknowledge or understand mine, and you are only projecting of yourself onto me in yours. You never talked actual hockey with me in this discourse. Not once. I was trying to, you wanted nothing of the sort. Rather pathetic.

All you do is speak in a condescending tone, when frankly, you have nothing to back it up with. I talk trades, you mock. I call you on it, your inner child comes out.

I can go on all day. You might want to stop now.

 

[67Leafs67]

I'm leaning towards Kapanen. Very difficult choice, as both are great options. Kapanen definitely has more speed, and having that one defining, special trait can definitely make him stand out more than Johnsson does. Plus, he has the first round pedigree, is two years younger, and has been with the Marlies & Leafs longer than Johnsson has. Johnsson however brings on offensive dynamic that Kapanen just doesn't have. Don't get me wrong, Kapanen is really realizing his potential this year, and scoring lots of goals. But ever since that early season slump, Johnsson has been money for production, with very limited ice-time. He's the kind of guy who can make plays, put pucks in the net, and be a real lethal threat on the power-play. The hardest reason not to choose Johnsson is position -- he's on the left wing, where we have a decrepit and near useless Marleau, stone-hands Hyman, depth players like Lindholm/Ennis, and a wild-card prospect in Moore. Meanwhile on the right, we already have Marner & Nylander, and Brown can slot into a solid third line if need be. Bracco is coming up...it's just a much stronger position than the left.

However, the edge goes to Kapanen because a) he's younger, and has more potential to unlock in my opinion. The way he has progressed season to season is very encouraging, and b) he's a great penalty killer, which is something that the Leafs need slightly more than a PP specialist like Johnsson.

But overall, I wouldn't want to give either of these guys up. Both of them are exceptional players who have made the most of their potentials so far, and really impressed me this season. I've really grown attached to them, and think that they are more important to this team than a lot of people perhaps realize.

 

[nuck]

This is Dubas chance to earn his wings after being bent over on the last two deals. I know we tend to look at our young up and comers with homer glasses but there is the potential for both these guys to be really solid long term top 6 talent. If KD can't say no to the big three can he at least sell moderation it to the next tier down or is he to be the harbinger of a new age of compensation? I think he got boned by Nylander and then slapped around by Matthews but success is based on all your signings, not just the elite ones. Even if he gets ragdolled by Marner's agent, the other signings and trades he does can make this a very positive year. Please Kyle nut up for these other deals and do something now, rather than passing the leverage to the player again.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I understand your posts perfectly. You don't acknowledge or understand mine, and you are only projecting of yourself onto me in yours. You never talked actual hockey with me in this discourse. Not once. I was trying to, you wanted nothing of the sort. Rather pathetic.

All you do is speak in a condescending tone, when frankly, you have nothing to back it up with. I talk trades, you mock. I call you on it, your inner child comes out.

I can go on all day. You might want to stop now.

Yes you've said this several times now, here are some excerpts from your earlier posts:

I have been talking hockey, and players, and movement, and how to improve the team. You have been talking about me, trying to mock me, and nothing about hockey.

Try to refute that. You can't.

Good luck with that, indeed. To reiterate, I talked hockey, you never once did.

Ok sir, just to end this surreal nonsense once and for all, here are a few excerpts from posts I made ITT that you responded to. Note that these are all about hockey.

Yes, lack of depth. We have 3 really good centres on our top 3 lines but after that, there's not much at all. We're pretty much perfectly set with our top 3 centres but trade Kadri and we'd have a huge hole at this very important position. Centre is such an important position, why would we want to mess with what we have there now?

As far as him soon being an overpriced 3rd line C goes, I'm surprised you're stating this out-on-a-limb prediction like it's a fact as I see no basis for this at all. He's nowhere close to being overpriced as far as I can tell, I'm not seeing this at all.

Maybe you're worrying too much about the "handedness" of our Dmen, I kind of like our D as it is now that we added Muzzin. I would also point out that most hockey players are left-handed so if this bothers you, I suggest you get over it.

Yeah I'm not a big stat guy but I'd guess that Rielly's numbers would be affected much more by who he's playing with than which side he plays on.

Yeah I thought of Nylander too but didn't say anything because there's something that bothers me about dividing our players into those that are trade chips and those who aren't. I mean I get that some players are more "trade chippy" than others but still, sometimes players get traded when you least expect it. As far as I'm concerned, I'd always listen to offers on anyone.

I'm not the one talking about trading anyone, in fact all I said was that one of the reasons Kadri isn't likely to be traded is our lack of depth at centre, you responded by saying "lack of depth"? Yes, lack of depth is one of the reasons that Kadri is IMO one of the least likely players to be traded that we have. There are others such as he is one of the few that we have who plays with an edge to his game which will be badly needed at playoff time and his contract is a bargain.

I understand that Rielly is left-handed but going from there to "trade Kadri" is a very strange leap to make. Don't hold your breath, it's not likely to happen for the reasons I have listed.

These are just parts of posts I have made and I made other posts as well where I discussed hockey yet you keep repeating that I have NEVER TALKED ACTUAL HOCKEY. It's as if you don't understand English at all yet clearly you do understand at least some English so

This isn't making you look very intelligent, I suggest you stop. You might even want to say whoops, I see now that I wasn't making any sense, sorry about that. Do that and you may even restore some credibility.

PS I'm here most days talking about hockey. As I said earlier, if you want to discuss Kadri then that's fine but this isn't the appropriate thread for it.

Enjoy the rest of your evening.

 

[Gary Nylund]

However, the edge goes to Kapanen because a) he's younger, and has more potential to unlock in my opinion. The way he has progressed season to season is very encouraging, and b) he's a great penalty killer, which is something that the Leafs need slightly more than a PP specialist like Johnsson.

But overall, I wouldn't want to give either of these guys up. Both of them are exceptional players who have made the most of their potentials so far, and really impressed me this season. I've really grown attached to them, and think that they are more important to this team than a lot of people perhaps realize.

Yup, Kapanen is younger, I mentioned that earlier and that's a big point in his favour. Agree also that ideally we keep both but on the other hand, if we do trade one of them we should get something really good back so if it happens, it happens. But yeah, I hope they're both Leafs for many years to come.

 

[Canadian Finn]

Kap Stays.

 

[kb]

Yes you've said this several times now, here are some excerpts from your earlier posts:

Ok sir, just to end this surreal nonsense once and for all, here are a few excerpts from posts I made ITT that you responded to. Note that these are all about hockey.

These are just parts of posts I have made and I made other posts as well where I discussed hockey yet you keep repeating that I have NEVER TALKED ACTUAL HOCKEY. It's as if you don't understand English at all yet clearly you do understand at least some English so

This isn't making you look very intelligent, I suggest you stop. You might even want to say whoops, I see now that I wasn't making any sense, sorry about that. Do that and you may even restore some credibility.

PS I'm here most days talking about hockey. As I said earlier, if you want to discuss Kadri then that's fine but this isn't the appropriate thread for it.

Enjoy the rest of your evening.

These posts are not all about hockey.

In the first quoted post, the arguments you are quoting have nothing to do with what I had originally said.

I said "nearly 33% of the cap is spent is spent on the top 3 c's, that is not sustainable in a cap world."

You answered with "As far as him soon being an overpriced 3rd line C goes, I'm surprised you're stating this out-on-a-limb prediction like it's a fact as I see no basis for this at all. He's nowhere close to being overpriced as far as I can tell, I'm not seeing this at all."

Huh? I never once claimed he as a player was "overpriced". I said the Leafs. are spending too much of the cap at the C position. Two entirely different things. Deception, spin and Strawman #1. Not truly talking hockey, you are simply making about me, and feebly trying to make it sound like I was saying that Kadri was overpriced. I never once said that. Quite the opposite. I said "we have 2 #1c's, so the #3c position is far less important than it would be on a team without this luxury. And it is a luxury we cannot afford IMO."

I said: "We are weak on RD, and handedness matters. Babcock agrees."

You said: "Maybe you're worrying too much about the "handedness" of our Dmen, I kind of like our D as it is now that we added Muzzin. I would also point out that most hockey players are left-handed so if this bothers you, I suggest you get over it."

So last game Babcock breaks up the Muzzin-Rielly pairing because it wasn't working as well with Rielly on the right, and puts Rielly back on his strong side with Hainsey. Hmmmm - looks like the coach agrees with one of us. And the bolded is yet another example of your arrogant and condescending tone, which is baffling because you really have no basis so far as you are simply spinning my words and creating a narrative that suits you. This is an ongoing pattern with you.

I maintained my stance that Rielly doesn't look the same on his off side, which should be a concern.

Then you said: "Yeah I'm not a big stat guy but I'd guess that Rielly's numbers would be affected much more by who he's playing with than which side he plays on.

Yeah I thought of Nylander too but didn't say anything because there's something that bothers me about dividing our players into those that are trade chips and those who aren't. I mean I get that some players are more "trade chippy" than others but still, sometimes players get traded when you least expect it. As far as I'm concerned, I'd always listen to offers on anyone."

Fair enough. Although I would say both would be important, and clearly after last game, Babcock agrees with me. As far as the second point, here is the odd thing....you are posting in a thread that discusses who to keep and who to trade between 2 players?

I said that the team needs to address it's weaknesses, and it doesn't matter who gets traded. But Kadri is a very valuable trade chip, and IMO we have depth at C and too much cap invested there. 90% of the board wanted Bozak gone at the deadline last year because he was "too expensive for a third line C", and they wanted the assets from that trade.

You said: "I'm not the one talking about trading anyone, in fact all I said was that one of the reasons Kadri isn't likely to be traded is our lack of depth at centre, you responded by saying "lack of depth"? Yes, lack of depth is one of the reasons that Kadri is IMO one of the least likely players to be traded that we have. There are others such as he is one of the few that we have who plays with an edge to his game which will be badly needed at playoff time and his contract is a bargain.

I understand that Rielly is left-handed but going from there to "trade Kadri" is a very strange leap to make. Don't hold your breath, it's not likely to happen for the reasons I have listed."

Again, for the first part, you are in a value/trade thread. And I pointed out Kadri is not badly needed, because if he is the make or break for Leaf playoff success, then we broke. As for the bolded, that is purely fiction you created in your own head again, with the requisite shot at me (ongoing pattern). I said that Kadri has tremendous value as a trade chip, and you wishing that away isn't going to change that fact. Again, I never once said "trade Kadri", this is yet another fictional creation of your own imagination.

And agreed, if we wish to continue on this, let's continue somewhere else, and not pollute this thread anymore than it already has been.

Enjoy your night too, fine sir.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Im a big fan of both, I really hope they are both Leafs for a long time. I'd trade Nylander if it meant keeping both. But if Dubas has to move one because he overpaid our RFA's then I give the slight edge to Kap, and maybe convert him to LW.

 

[Davidos193]

What was Bob Mckenzie smoking when he said Kapanen would get $2.75mil and Johnsson would get $2.25mil? (that was his prediction a few games ago). I can’t see Kap taking less than 3.75 and Johnsson less than 3.00. In a cap world, it will be a real challenge for the Leafs to keep both. If I’m Dubas, I would sign Kap to a 2-3 year bridge deal asap. He’s the one to keep, if we have to choose between the two. (If we manage to keep both, even better.)

 

[Havoc]

I wish that Nylander had been the guy to go. His contribution to the team is not that much higher than these two, and yet he's making a boatload and has been told he won't be traded. But alas..

Johnsson is the lesser player, all things considered. But this team is past the point of having to worry about asset management above all else. We don't need to be getting the absolute best value in every player transaction. We need to be getting the best on-ice contribution. And the team clearly needs LW more than RW.

Trade Kappy in the offseason to a scoring starved team. Colorado, Arizona, or someone like that should be willing to pay for talent. As long as the return is someone who can contribute next season, and makes way less money.

If you're trading Kapanen you only accept the premium rate.

20 goal defensive specialist that can fly. Teams would line up for this guy if they knew he was available.

They'll make room for him. Kapanen is a Dubas kind of player. Gardiner/Marleau/Brown/Zaitsev would get cut before they'd consider losing Kapanen.

 

[Gary Nylund]

These posts are not all about hockey.

In the first quoted post, the arguments you are quoting have nothing to do with what I had originally said.

I said "nearly 33% of the cap is spent is spent on the top 3 c's, that is not sustainable in a cap world."

You answered with "As far as him soon being an overpriced 3rd line C goes, I'm surprised you're stating this out-on-a-limb prediction like it's a fact as I see no basis for this at all. He's nowhere close to being overpriced as far as I can tell, I'm not seeing this at all."

Huh? I never once claimed he as a player was "overpriced". I said the Leafs. are spending too much of the cap at the C position. Two entirely different things. Deception, spin and Strawman #1. Not truly talking hockey, you are simply making about me, and feebly trying to make it sound like I was saying that Kadri was overpriced. I never once said that. Quite the opposite. I said "we have 2 #1c's, so the #3c position is far less important than it would be on a team without this luxury. And it is a luxury we cannot afford IMO."

I said: "We are weak on RD, and handedness matters. Babcock agrees."

You said: "Maybe you're worrying too much about the "handedness" of our Dmen, I kind of like our D as it is now that we added Muzzin. I would also point out that most hockey players are left-handed so if this bothers you, I suggest you get over it."

So last game Babcock breaks up the Muzzin-Rielly pairing because it wasn't working as well with Rielly on the right, and puts Rielly back on his strong side with Hainsey. Hmmmm - looks like the coach agrees with one of us. And the bolded is yet another example of your arrogant and condescending tone, which is baffling because you really have no basis so far as you are simply spinning my words and creating a narrative that suits you. This is an ongoing pattern with you.

I maintained my stance that Rielly doesn't look the same on his off side, which should be a concern.

Then you said: "Yeah I'm not a big stat guy but I'd guess that Rielly's numbers would be affected much more by who he's playing with than which side he plays on.

Yeah I thought of Nylander too but didn't say anything because there's something that bothers me about dividing our players into those that are trade chips and those who aren't. I mean I get that some players are more "trade chippy" than others but still, sometimes players get traded when you least expect it. As far as I'm concerned, I'd always listen to offers on anyone."

Fair enough. Although I would say both would be important, and clearly after last game, Babcock agrees with me. As far as the second point, here is the odd thing....you are posting in a thread that discusses who to keep and who to trade between 2 players?

I said that the team needs to address it's weaknesses, and it doesn't matter who gets traded. But Kadri is a very valuable trade chip, and IMO we have depth at C and too much cap invested there. 90% of the board wanted Bozak gone at the deadline last year because he was "too expensive for a third line C", and they wanted the assets from that trade.

You said: "I'm not the one talking about trading anyone, in fact all I said was that one of the reasons Kadri isn't likely to be traded is our lack of depth at centre, you responded by saying "lack of depth"? Yes, lack of depth is one of the reasons that Kadri is IMO one of the least likely players to be traded that we have. There are others such as he is one of the few that we have who plays with an edge to his game which will be badly needed at playoff time and his contract is a bargain.

I understand that Rielly is left-handed but going from there to "trade Kadri" is a very strange leap to make. Don't hold your breath, it's not likely to happen for the reasons I have listed."

Again, for the first part, you are in a value/trade thread. And I pointed out Kadri is not badly needed, because if he is the make or break for Leaf playoff success, then we broke. As for the bolded, that is purely fiction you created in your own head again, with the requisite shot at me (ongoing pattern). I said that Kadri has tremendous value as a trade chip, and you wishing that away isn't going to change that fact. Again, I never once said "trade Kadri", this is yet another fictional creation of your own imagination.

And agreed, if we wish to continue on this, let's continue somewhere else, and not pollute this thread anymore than it already has been.

Enjoy your night too, fine sir.

You said things like "I talked hockey, you never once did". You said it several times. You were wrong. You can be a man and admit you were wrong or not, up to you.

 

[AcerComputer]

I don't think either cap hit will be higher than $3M on a 2 year deal.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Is there a way to vote for "Let's simply not overpay Nylander, Matthews, and Marner and then keep both"?

 

[horner]

What was Bob Mckenzie smoking when he said Kapanen would get $2.75mil and Johnsson would get $2.25mil? (that was his prediction a few games ago). I can’t see Kap taking less than 3.75 and Johnsson less than 3.00. In a cap world, it will be a real challenge for the Leafs to keep both. If I’m Dubas, I would sign Kap to a 2-3 year bridge deal asap. He’s the one to keep, if we have to choose between the two. (If we manage to keep both, even better.)

Maybe sign both on one yr deals?

 

[kb]

You said things like "I talked hockey, you never once did". You said it several times. You were wrong. You can be a man and admit you were wrong or not, up to you.

You never once talked hockey ONLY in your responses - without condescention, derision, or mocking, or smugness. You just can't help yourself. So no, that's not hockey talk. You could have easily chosen to talk without using any of those things, but that's your character, or rather, complete lack thereof. Those "hockey responses" were just a means so you could take your shots. It was about getting your pound of flesh. And you aren't man enough to own up to that being your SOLE motivation in your responses. Or to man up to anything. But I am hardly surprised coming from you.

You probably still haven noticed, but all that time I didn't take any shots, I only said that I care more about the front of the jersey than the name on the back, unlike others. If' you saw yourself in that, then you should't be getting angry at me...you should be taking a long look in a mirror. Adios.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You never once talked hockey ONLY - without condescention, derision, or mocking, or smugness. So no, that's not hockey talk. You could talk without using any of those things, but that's your character, or lack thereof. Those responses were just a means so you could take your shots. It was about getting your pound of flesh. Truly childish, and pathetic. And you aren't man enough to own up to that. Or anything.

So you refuse to admit you're wrong and are shifting the goalposts again. You have now made a number of posts doing nothing but insulting me and your lack of maturity is making further discussion pointless.

I'm done with you. Have a nice life.

 

[kb]

So you refuse to admit you're wrong and are shifting the goalposts again. You have now made a number of posts doing nothing but insulting me and your lack of maturity is making further discussion pointless.

I'm done with you. Have a nice life.

This post is so beautiful in it's utter textbook definition of projection. Let's never forget you started with the insults long before I did, and continued it even when I said it was pointless and polluting the thread. I am not wrong. You won't acknowledge your many lies, insults, putdowns, strawmen arguments disguised as hockey posts. Sorry, but that won't work here.

I'd love for you to be done with me. Please. But alas, I suspect you won't.....and for the record I love my life!

 

[RLF]

So, if the Leafs were to trade either one.

What would your expected type of return be for

A. Kapanen
B. Johnsson

 

[The Apologist]

Is there a way to vote for "Let's simply not overpay Nylander, Matthews, and Marner and then keep both"?

No.
If there was, I would use that technology to go back and get some lottery numbers instead.