Kap or A-Jo?

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by ThatsSoSlavin, Feb 10, 2019.

?

Kapanen vs Johnsson

  1. Kapenan

    77.4%
  2. Johnsson

    22.6%
  1. GodEmperor

    GodEmperor Registered User

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    Yep good playoffs, nothing spectacular, you know in sample sizes you use the most recent sample right?

    I expect him not to be completely out of shape, Wilson missed the same amount of time and looks great. Let's not pretend Nylander can't go to the rink or there are some super special secret NHL drills that he somehow doesn't know despite being in the NHL.

    Just because boards do things does not mean anything about my point, go back and find my posts saying that and then you'd have a point, you won't because I didn't make that point.

    I have never heard any of these things said about Marner, he is someone who has ALWAYS laid it on the line.

    Marner? Where did I say that? Oh you're strawmanning me, I guess that's what happens when you have no arguments, just make up stuff like you did about Marner and his play.

    Realizing your potential takes hard work, dedication and effort, not just genetics, Nylander and his family have shown they don't have this in them, from his underwhelming father who could've been a lot better to his busting brother to Melander showing up fat and out of shape, now I know you want to ignore these data points, but they are all true.

    Nylander may have excellent potential, maybe even Marner level, but he will likely never realize it.
     
  2. Nithoniniel

    Nithoniniel Registered User

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    Of course you keep the cap in mind, but that wasn't really the question here, was it? It was about moving out the player due to cap concerns, and that won't happen.

    And it is a bit of uncharted territory, but it's the direction the whole league is moving. Most of the cap space will go towards getting players paid in their prime, instead of rewarding them afterwards.

    I don't think I've seen any return in any rumor about Nylander that I would consider an immense return. At best they have been decent.

    Wilson was practicing the whole time. The thing that Babcock and ex-players said was crucial even before this thing started dragging out. Do you honestly believe that a player can get up to NHL speed on his own?

    You decided that he was fat because he couldn't keep up with the speed of the league, ignoring that Babcock and several ex-players pointed out that this would happen irregardless of the shape he showed up in. You deduced that he was fat due to how his face looked, while ignoring pictures that showed more than that. But now that he is flying around out there showing no signs of not being able to keep up, you ignore that his face looks exactly the same.

    And nobody that knows anything Nylander would question his dedication and hard work off the ice. It's all he lives for.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  3. GBLeaf

    GBLeaf Registered User

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    I'd like Leafs to keep both Kapanen and Johnsson.

    But if I have to choose to keep one because we either can't afford them both, or one needs to be moved for RHD.

    I'd move Kapanen.

    - Will likely demand more $ than Johnsson
    - Current trade value is probably higher than Johnsson's
    - Leafs have more RW prospects that LW
    - Johnsson has had less time in the top 6 but still scoring goals

    Hurt to see that speed leave the team, but I think it would be the most sensible move. Especially if it returns a RHD of good age/contract.
     
  4. Not My Tempo

    Not My Tempo Registered User

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    Ok let’s do this again lol.

    1. What? You know it’s bad to just disregard data right? Newer samples should be weighted more heavily than older ones yes, but just tossing the old data away is horrible especially when the new data only has a sample size of 7. Ideally we’d have an adjustment factor for the older samples.

    2. Wilson was still allowed to practice with an NHL team though and use NHL facilities. He just wasn’t allowed to play. Nylander couldn’t. I guess he could’ve but then the NHLPA would’ve ripped him a new one.

    3. How is it a straw man? You’re point was Nylander’s play has fallen and that Matthews and Marner have made progress every year while Nylander has not, and I pointed out that at the start of last year Marner was looking like he hadn’t made progress. You’re criteria for improvement is just an arbitrary cutoff point and had we looked at Marner at the start of last season and used the same criteria you just used, we would’ve came to the conclusion that Marner also hasn’t improved. And the entire idea that Nylander hasn’t improved is silly but I won’t get into that now lol
     
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  5. RLF

    RLF Registered User

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    Most that have suggested moving Nylander is to improve the team as a whole and for optimizing cap management as you said.
    If you could get a top 4 RHD making a lot less than Willy and a high prospect for example, which allows you to probably sign Kap with the difference from the RHD hit and have the same combined cap hit as Willy alone does, the GM should consider it.
    The scenario that you move a higher cap hit for a return to improve elsewhere when you have an internal player(s) that can produce as much or slightly less, but gives significant cap savings is used all the time. Like letting JVR go. People argued we won't miss him because of the others combined could pick up the scoring for less money. Kap and Johnsson combined will likely outproduce Willy for less money or at worst the same. Add a top 4 RHD and a high prospect to our mix from the trade and we are likely a better team and better cap managed. Unfortunately, bias gets in the way and we can only do this with players some don't like as much as other players they really like.
     
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  6. RLF

    RLF Registered User

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    I agree with the above, but you are omitting Kapanen's size advantage and he is one of our top Pkers as well. Kapanen can play a heavier games that Johnsson will struggle with as he is easily manhandled as it happens nightly. Kapanen is also getting basically NO PP time and Johnsson is on the 2nd PP unit. There is more to it than just the above. It's a real tough call which one if we did, or have to trade one.
     
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  7. GBLeaf

    GBLeaf Registered User

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    Yeah KK's PP duties are a big plus. His speed and ability to battle turn defence to attack so often.

    Although our 2nd PP unit is almost a non entity. Last few games I don't think they've even got set up.
     
  8. GodEmperor

    GodEmperor Registered User

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    Just like you're disregarding his most recent playoffs.

    Oh true, skating hard and not eating tons of food is so hard to do.

    Marner had a rough 15 game stretch in his 2nd year, Nylander in his THIRD YEAR had a brutal 25 game stretch, big difference.

    Everything is arbitrary and no idea wtf you're talking about Marner.

    Oh for sure he's improved, 60 points, 61 points, on pace for 30 points. #MASSIVEIMPROVEMENT
     
  9. LeafFever

    LeafFever Registered User

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    Johnsson's TOI right now is a complete joke given his production.
     
  10. AnomX

    AnomX Registered User

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    Why not sip on a kap-a-Jo and enjoy having both.


    I'll see myself to the door.... :help:
     
  11. RLF

    RLF Registered User

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    True on the 2nd PP, but he is given the opportunity where Kap is not. Johnsson has 5PPP to Kap's 1. Kap has had significantly more 5v5 time. Johnsson's S% is high right now at 17.9% while Kap's is closer to norm at 13.6%. If you want to use other stats that are used here often. Johnsson's PDO would suggest he has been very "lucky" this year. Kap's luck is slightly better than team avg. Take all that with a grain of salt. They are both good players, although personally, I give the edge to Kap as more likely to be a better NHLer and fills a more needed role for the Leafs.
     
  12. Gary Nylund

    Gary Nylund Registered User

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    Again with this BS. No, you don't "know" anything and and since you just can't stop with this condescending attitude like you care about "the team" and I don't, we are indeed done.

    Get off your high horse and it might be worthwhile having a discussion with you, until then ...
     
  13. zeke

    zeke The Dube Abides

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    My eye test says he's been awesome.

    And his possession stats have jumped in a huge way.

    And yes, his production rate is down slightly, but over that sample him scoring 1 more pt would make up that difference.

    There is no evidence that he's having any issue whatsoever playing on the right side.
     
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  14. Menzinger

    Menzinger Moderator

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    Or folks think that thing quality for quantity packages tend to always favour the team getting quality.

    You don’t trade a prime asset for the sake of convenience
     
  15. RLF

    RLF Registered User

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    Never said you should. How you came up with that from what I wrote, I got no idea.
     
  16. kb

    kb Registered User

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    That's rich. Only one of us is on a high horse, and hint, it's not me. I have been talking hockey, and players, and movement, and how to improve the team. You have been talking about me, trying to mock me, and nothing about hockey.

    Try to refute that. You can't.

    I "know" because we wouldn't be having this conversation now, nor would it be at this point. I said someone was a good trade chip. You mocked that assertion instead of talking hockey. If you want to even bring up condescending, check your posts. All of them. Dismissive. Strawmen. No content, just derision.

    Done.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  17. kb

    kb Registered User

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    Agree to disagree. Just got himself a dash one.
     
  18. Davidos193

    Davidos193 Registered User

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    If Dubas keeps Johnsson over Kapanen, it's a big fail on his part. Kapanen is a keeper, hands down.
     
  19. Davidos193

    Davidos193 Registered User

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    If I'm Dubas, I would sign Kapanen asap..the longer we wait, the more expensive he'll be. Lock him up on 3 year bridge deal
     
  20. HamiltonNHL

    HamiltonNHL Parity era hockey is just luck

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    Too bad we might not have money to keep both. Fingers crossed.
     
  21. TheShape

    TheShape Registered User

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    Dubas is bridging both. I’m not worried
     
  22. kb

    kb Registered User

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    He was doing so well that he got taken off his offside and put back with Hainsey. How odd.
     
  23. zeke

    zeke The Dube Abides

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    our coach is super odd, no doubt.
     
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  24. Leafs87

    Leafs87 Mr. Steal Your Job

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    Unless you’re looking at future potential it’s hard not to pick Johnsson

    Either way I think 2.5 for either is a pipe dream
     
  25. Jimmy Firecracker

    Jimmy Firecracker #FireBabcock

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    I'll take both s'il vous plaît.
     
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