TBN: Kaleta hit on Richards discussion (Suspended 5 games)

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Because if the ultimate goal is to rid the game of these "bad" hits...then the result should not matter. This isn't about punishing bad behavior..this is about setting precedents as to what is allowed and what isn't allowed.

This isn't criminal law. There is so much wrong with criminal law its not even funny...not sure why you'd want to go down that road.

You should mention this to Shanaban because he frequently cites the severity or lack of injury in his suspension videos. NHL discipline is a bigger joke then NFL catch guidelines and expecting it to be done correctly is like expecting Hecht to score PpG this season. Spin the wheel and make the explanation fit the punishment.

 

[Squantosawuss]

because its a sports league, not a culture or a society.

Murder and checking from behind are not comparable. We are talking about trying to eliminate certain plays from happening - when they do, the injury of the victim shouldn't weigh heavily on the infraction.

We are trying to eliminate drunk driving.
When you drive drunk, you get into big trouble.
When you damage property while driving drunk, you get into even bigger trouble.
When you hurt or kill someone driving drunk, you get into REALLY big trouble.

While we are trying to rid society of drunk drivers, we still dole out punishment based on the severity of the results of the bad behavior. We do that because it makes sense.

When deciding a punishment, trying to separate the act from the results of the act is unreasonable.

 

[wunderpanda]

As I mentioned in the main boards thread, if it wasn't a star player in New York City, nobody would even be talking abut this. This can still be fairly compared to drunk driving as the above posters mentioned.

When Jason Kidd or Jon Jones were driving drunk and crashed into trees, they received different penalties than the average person would have. There is a certain amount of star treatment involved in this punishment.

That said, yes it was a dirty play by Kaleta with an awkward fall by Richards. I don't think 5 games was warranted considering there were worse hits that resulted in concussions and missed games last week that carried lighter penalties.

 

[FoSotC]

Pretty disgusting play and subsequent interview by Kaleta. I know he's our hometown boy and a lot of fans are inclined to have his back, but there was no excuse to make such a reckless play. This will be Kaleta's third NHL suspension, all of which were deserved. I think it's time to put our bias aside, stop making excuses for him, and admit that he's more of a Matt Cooke than a Steve Ott at this point in his career, and that much of his reputation in every other NHL fanbase but our own has become well-founded. He may not have some bloodthirsty intent to cause serious injury to players, but he clearly has problems with his decision-making on the ice when it comes to staying on the right side of the edge he plays on.

 

[jBuds]

You should mention this to Shanaban because he frequently cites the severity or lack of injury in his suspension videos. NHL discipline is a bigger joke then NFL catch guidelines and expecting it to be done correctly is like expecting Hecht to score PpG this season. Spin the wheel and make the explanation fit the punishment.

He does it a lot. And it's wrong if you're trying to eliminate actions.

If you don't want cross checks from the back four feet from the boards, then every cross check that happens four feet from the boards from behind deserves the same penalty, regardless of whether or not the player receiving the hit is hurt for thirty seconds or four weeks.

 

[jBuds]

Pretty disgusting play and subsequent interview by Kaleta. I know he's our hometown boy and a lot of fans are inclined to have his back, but there was no excuse to make such a reckless play. This will be Kaleta's third NHL suspension, all of which were deserved. I think it's time to put our bias aside, stop making excuses for him, and admit that he's more of a Matt Cooke than a Steve Ott at this point in his career, and that much of his reputation in every other NHL fanbase but our own has become well-founded. He may not have some bloodthirsty intent to cause serious injury to players, but he clearly has problems with his decision-making on the ice when it comes to staying on the right side of the edge he plays on.

Don't agree with your overall assertion which, correct me if I'm wrong, is insinuating that he brings more negative than positive.

He hits, hits hard, mostly clean. He kills penalties. Blocks shots. Plays okay defensively. Is a decent skater. Great teammate. Good with getting the puck deep. Brings a lot for us as a bottom six forward. He could be from Angola or from Moose Jaw or Calgary and I'd say the same thing. His birthplace is irrelevant.

Bad choice here. He has made them before. But he has worth to us, so long as he's healthy. Look no further than the last game against NJ.

 

[FoSotC]

Don't agree with your overall assertion which, correct me if I'm wrong, is insinuating that he brings more negative than positive.

He hits, hits hard, mostly clean. He kills penalties. Blocks shots. Plays okay defensively. Is a decent skater. Great teammate. Good with getting the puck deep. Brings a lot for us as a bottom six forward. He could be from Angola or from Moose Jaw or Calgary and I'd say the same thing. His birthplace is irrelevant.

Bad choice here. He has made them before. But he has worth to us, so long as he's healthy. Look no further than the last game against NJ.

No, I wouldn't say that he brings more negative than positive to our team. I agree that he's worth having on the roster, and love his dedication and willingness to do whatever it takes to help our team win, including laying his own body on the line.

What I don't love is the overly-reckless play and disregard for the consequences that occurs every now and then with him. There's being a pest and drawing penalties, and then there's being a danger to the well-being of other people's lives, intentionally or not. He needs to make smarter decisions out there when it comes to that.

 

[Chainshot]

Not a surprise. That said, the inconsistency of the league office is yet again on clear display when Weaver does the same thing to Lucic and gets nothing (or as someone mentioned earlier, the Richards-Connolly shove in the playoffs a few years back). Eh. Also not a surprise...

 

[Mike McDermott]

We are trying to eliminate drunk driving.
When you drive drunk, you get into big trouble.
When you damage property while driving drunk, you get into even bigger trouble.
When you hurt or kill someone driving drunk, you get into REALLY big trouble.

While we are trying to rid society of drunk drivers, we still dole out punishment based on the severity of the results of the bad behavior. We do that because it makes sense.

When deciding a punishment, trying to separate the act from the results of the act is unreasonable.

You can also make the argument that if the punishment for drunk driving was the same as if the worst had happened we would have a lot less drunk driving.

 

[Clock]

I'm starting to call Kaleta's effectiveness to the organization as a whole into question. He's gotta keep his nose clean.

 

[McCauleyChirps]

I'm starting to call Kaleta's effectiveness to the organization as a whole into question. He's gotta keep his nose clean.

Good pk'er, good physical game. He doesn't bring much else to the table.

 

[Clock]

Good pk'er, good physical game. He doesn't bring much else to the table.

Right, when he's playing and isn't getting called on reputation penalties. It's becoming an issue.

 

[vcv]

I'm starting to call Kaleta's effectiveness to the organization as a whole into question. He's gotta keep his nose clean.

I'm not. Still draws penalties better than anyone in the league, our PK would be even worse without him and I'm never worried about a goal against when he's on the ice. Add in the hitting and occassional fight and he's the perfect 4th liner, suspensions or not.

 

[Crazy Tasty]

He was the only player on the team with some balls, every game day in day out the last few years.
Just like Jame, I'd take 2 more of him.

 

[CrankyJay]

I'm not. Still draws penalties better than anyone in the league, our PK would be even worse without him and I'm never worried about a goal against when he's on the ice. Add in the hitting and occassional fight and he's the perfect 4th liner, suspensions or not.

Short memory...he took Kovulchuk out of game on Saturday. Gimme that Kaleta.

 

[RazielMoshman]

Right, when he's playing and isn't getting called on reputation penalties. It's becoming an issue.

It's less of an issue this season, last season he couldn't move for penalties. If he plays one good, clean season then he'll be ok. He should focus on his PK abilities, be a real shutdown forward who can chip in a garbage goal or two. I'm sure he can be but plays like this make any progression pointless, as you say he needs to be actually playing.

 

[Tyler2829]

Short memory...he took Kovulchuk out of game on Saturday. Gimme that Kaleta.

Yep. He leads the league in penalties drawn.

 

[stokes84]

Peters calling out Richards on Ksly's show is good stuff. Exactly what I thought about it.

 

[Bardof425*]

Right, when he's playing and isn't getting called on reputation penalties. It's becoming an issue.

Ranger fan here. I really appreciate the objectivity being shown in this discussion. Regarding the issue around reputation penalties we went through this with a very popular Ranger (Avery) and eventually the organization cut ties. I was against it but I think it worked out for the best.

 

[stokes84]

Ranger fan here. I really appreciate the objectivity being shown in this discussion. Regarding the issue around reputation penalties we went through this with a very popular Ranger (Avery) and eventually the organization cut ties. I was against it but I think it worked out for the best.

Big difference between Kaleta and Avery. Avery has a reputation as a locker room cancer and a me first guy. Kaleta is a complete team players and will do whatever is asked of him. He's the ultimate soldier that will go through a wall for you. That's not the type of guy you cut ties with because of some reputation issues.

 

[joshjull]

Right, when he's playing and isn't getting called on reputation penalties. It's becoming an issue.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...2_s&f2=5v5&f7=10-&c=0+1+3+5+41+42+43+44+45+46

Thats not the case at all. He draws FAR more penalties per 60mins played than he has called against him. He leads the entire league in penalties drawn per 60mins of play.


This season for every 60mins of play Kaleta has drawn 3.5 penalties and has taken 1.5 penalties. By comparison Ott has drawn and taken the exact same amount per 60mins of play 1.1. No other Sabre is even close to Kaleta's ratio. In fact there are only 3 other Sabres who have drawn more penalties than they've taken and their ratio of drawn to taken is no where near Kaleta's.

Grigs ------> drawn .8/taken .0
Pommer --> drawn .8/taken .6
Ennis ------> drawn .4/taken .2


If anything would concern me about Kaleta being effective, its injuries not suspensions.


EDIT: btw his 1.5 penalties per 60mins is tied for 2nd on the team with Regehr and Vanek is right there with 1.4, Hodgson, Leo at 1.2. He is hardly getting called for penalties at a over the top rate, particularly with his style of play. He isn't even in the top 30 in the league for penalties taken per 60mins. The guy who slammed his head off the glass and was just traded (Mike Brown) leads the NHL taking 5.4 penalties per 60mins played.

 

[Chainshot]

Kaleta, as fearless PKer and shotblocker, a guy who comes back hard and rarely if ever blows his checking assignment? Yes. He's got the physical game one wants in a 4th liner and can go pretty well in with other middleweight type fighters now. There is still a place on this team for someone like that. In fact, they could use more of some of what Pat does -- his energy, giving it his all, giving up his body to block shots, finishing his hits, commitment to defense.

 

[Clock]

If anything would concern me about Kaleta being effective, its injuries not suspensions.

Right, I should've explicitly called that out as well.

I just look at a lot of factors starting to work against Kaleta (injuries, his reputation, the need to potentially tone that down and hurt the physical part of his game). Not calling for him to get traded, it's just a shame that his effectiveness could be hurt by this unless he takes it up another notch in the clean-it-up department.

 

[joshjull]

Kaleta, as fearless PKer and shotblocker, a guy who comes back hard and rarely if ever blows his checking assignment? Yes. He's got the physical game one wants in a 4th liner and can go pretty well in with other middleweight type fighters now. There is still a place on this team for someone like that. In fact, they could use more of some of what Pat does -- his energy, giving it his all, giving up his body to block shots, finishing his hits, commitment to defense.

To add to that, if we ever make the playoffs having someone that is inflicting punishment on the other team is a must. We've seen plenty of times what thats done to us being on the receiving end.

 

[joshjull]

Right, I should've explicitly called that out as well.

I just look at a lot of factors starting to work against Kaleta (injuries, his reputation, the need to potentially tone that down and hurt the physical part of his game). Not calling for him to get traded, it's just a shame that his effectiveness could be hurt by this unless he takes it up another notch in the clean-it-up department.

If anything his rep is why he draws the amount of calls he does. Even when he misses hitting someone and hammers the boards. The other team still goes after him if the player he missed was a star.