TSN: Kadri: "The confidence is there"

[Menzinger]

You missed a large part of the quote there. With the minutes, opportunities and situations hes being given, 40-50 is not acceptable. Those are Bozak numbers and many ***** whine incesantly about 'overpaid' he is at 4ish million. Yet many of those same have no issue pencilling Kadri in at 5?

40-50 points puts him in the top half of top six forwards in the league - that's all you can ask of a player. Just because he isn't getting 70 points doesn't mean he's not being useful. I think you're setting up unrealistic expectations.

And beyond production there are a lot more aspects of his game that I'm satisfied with, which is more than I can say for some other centres on the Leafs.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

You missed a large part of the quote there. With the minutes, opportunities and situations hes being given, 40-50 is not acceptable. Those are Bozak numbers and many ***** whine incesantly about 'overpaid' he is at 4ish million. Yet many of those same have no issue pencilling Kadri in at 5?

You know we traded our all-star right winger who routinely scores 30 goals and ~70 points right?

Anything close to 50 is definitely satisfactory if the possession and he defensive play is there.

From a points perspective, the expectation is much different this year.

 

[Ovate]

50 points coming mostly from even strength production with strong defensive play, and drawing penalties is great.

50 points coming 50% from the PP and floating defensively is not.

 

[leafs in five]

'not acceptable' according to a former true believer in the Nonis Leafs

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

He is 50% on the draws as well.

 

[Bluelines]

It seems kind of odd that you believe this, and yet you are still harping on point totals as a big issue.

The other parts of his game have looked very good.

Not sure you thought out that response, what does one have to do with the other?

To understand why Kadri is struggling and to also ext your top line center to produce are two completely independent thoughts that can exist on their own.

I'm not going to crucify a kid for learning how to play a style that is totally different than anything he's tried before. it will take time and I think Kadri is skilled enough to eventually produce and play well in a Babcock system.

Currently he is not producing and that is a big detriment to the team, currently he is playing well defensively and that is a bonus to the team... see two thoughts that are true that can exist at the same time...

 

[leafs in five]

i'd be surprised if anyone on this team cracks 50 points

 

[Rogie]

The good thing is (to me anyways) is that I don't see much chemistry between Kadri and JVR yet. This is taking some time, and can be expected because first and foremost they are learning to play a new system that are requires of them to do some things defensively (even in the Ozone) that they weren't doing before.

The good thing is, they still CAN get some chemistry going and if they can, we could see some good production then. I see much much more chemistry in the passing the Ozone and banking pucks off the boards (almost blindly), cycling blindly to a teammate, etc. by Bozie/Matts/Paps; I don't see anything like that from Kadri and JVR - they're playing fine but it all seems so structured and there's no creativity going on JUST YET. If they can start connecting more on passes in the Ozone and just putting it to a place where the player is supposed to be and believing your teammate will be there - they'll start to get some chemistry. It's like they still don't really trust each other. Sure, Kadri, sometimes shoots when you think, hmmmm, he could of held the puck a second longer (he is sometimes in a perfect position to hold the puck, like on a partial 2 on 1), but, rather than holding on and letting his teammate get into a better position - he fires it on net. It doesn't look like a bad choice because he gets it on net, but, I just wonder if he could of worked the play a little bit more with his teammate. Same for JVR at times, but, less so with JVR, he seems to be trying to get passes and get in a rhythym with Kadri but, it's seem so structured and as if they have no creativity between them. This again, could improve as they get more comfortable in what they need to be doing defensively with respect to the new system..

If they start to figure out each others tendencies a bit more - maybe we'll see some fireworks then.

I'm just seeing far more chemistry between Bozak and his linemates; maybe they have more suitable styles, but Kadri/JVR are pros and they need to figure it out soon.

All this to say, they are still generating chances and Kadri has a ton of shots, it's just that it could still be much much better and it just still seems like no 'chemistry' yet to me - jmo.

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

After finally potting another goal the other night, Kadri now has TWO.
2 goals, 6 assists for 8 pts in 21 games, a quarter of the season gone. On pace for 8 goals and 23 assists or 31 pts. After doing well in the face off dot early on, his FO% now seems to be dropping back to sub 50% territory again.

Kadri is now what? 6/7 years removed from his draft, where the Leafs took him 7th overall. Dylan Larkin taken 15th by Detroit in 2014 has 8 GOALS this year, as many goals as Kadri has points. Despite averaging more than 2 additional minutes of ice time per game compared to 19 yo Larkin, Kadri has produced half as much. Larkin has 15 points to Kadri's 8.

Kind of shocking for a guy with the same skill set as John Tavares and who was supposed to rededicate himself to training and being a good pro this offseason.... in a contract year no less.

Meanwhile Bozak has 3G 9A 12 pts in only 17 games, and is just under 54% at the dot.

Keep proving em right Naz!

 

[CaymanIslands]

Is this not a contract year for the Great Naz????

Time to move him for a good asset

 

[nsleaf]

Not sure you thought out that response, what does one have to do with the other?

To understand why Kadri is struggling and to also ext your top line center to produce are two completely independent thoughts that can exist on their own.

I'm not going to crucify a kid for learning how to play a style that is totally different than anything he's tried before. it will take time and I think Kadri is skilled enough to eventually produce and play well in a Babcock system.

Currently he is not producing and that is a big detriment to the team, currently he is playing well defensively and that is a bonus to the team... see two thoughts that are true that can exist at the same time...

He's not a kid anymore.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

The good thing is (to me anyways) is that I don't see much chemistry between Kadri and JVR yet. This is taking some time, and can be expected because first and foremost they are learning to play a new system that are requires of them to do some things defensively (even in the Ozone) that they weren't doing before.

The good thing is, they still CAN get some chemistry going and if they can, we could see some good production then. I see much much more chemistry in the passing the Ozone and banking pucks off the boards (almost blindly), cycling blindly to a teammate, etc. by Bozie/Matts/Paps; I don't see anything like that from Kadri and JVR - they're playing fine but it all seems so structured and there's no creativity going on JUST YET. If they can start connecting more on passes in the Ozone and just putting it to a place where the player is supposed to be and believing your teammate will be there - they'll start to get some chemistry. It's like they still don't really trust each other. Sure, Kadri, sometimes shoots when you think, hmmmm, he could of held the puck a second longer (he is sometimes in a perfect position to hold the puck, like on a partial 2 on 1), but, rather than holding on and letting his teammate get into a better position - he fires it on net. It doesn't look like a bad choice because he gets it on net, but, I just wonder if he could of worked the play a little bit more with his teammate. Same for JVR at times, but, less so with JVR, he seems to be trying to get passes and get in a rhythym with Kadri but, it's seem so structured and as if they have no creativity between them. This again, could improve as they get more comfortable in what they need to be doing defensively with respect to the new system..

If they start to figure out each others tendencies a bit more - maybe we'll see some fireworks then.

I'm just seeing far more chemistry between Bozak and his linemates; maybe they have more suitable styles, but Kadri/JVR are pros and they need to figure it out soon.

All this to say, they are still generating chances and Kadri has a ton of shots, it's just that it could still be much much better and it just still seems like no 'chemistry' yet to me - jmo.

This is a good point. I'm not a fan of passing definitive judgments after 20 games. I want to see the vast majority of, if not the whole season.

 

[cookie]

Not sure you thought out that response, what does one have to do with the other?

To understand why Kadri is struggling and to also ext your top line center to produce are two completely independent thoughts that can exist on their own.

I'm not going to crucify a kid for learning how to play a style that is totally different than anything he's tried before. it will take time and I think Kadri is skilled enough to eventually produce and play well in a Babcock system.

Currently he is not producing and that is a big detriment to the team, currently he is playing well defensively and that is a bonus to the team... see two thoughts that are true that can exist at the same time...

The problem with your assessment is that you're emphasizing points production as a basis of playing well. Sure not producing is hurting the team but the location of his scoring opportunities suggests that it's something that is temporary. If these opportunities dry up, then there's a cause for concern...until then, it's just a matter of his shooting percentage coming back up to the normal.
A player producing points without getting the appropriate amount of scoring chances is a prime candidate for a sell high opportunity; one getting the chances but not producing should be kept, IMO.

 

[Optimist]

The problem with your assessment is that you're emphasizing points production as a basis of playing well. Sure not producing is hurting the team but the location of his scoring opportunities suggests that it's something that is temporary. If these opportunities dry up, then there's a cause for concern...until then, it's just a matter of his shooting percentage coming back up to the normal.
A player producing points without getting the appropriate amount of scoring chances is a prime candidate for a sell high opportunity; one getting the chances but not producing should be kept, IMO.

There's a reason why he has the most shots on net in the universe. He doesn't pass the puck. Don't you think that just maybe the other teams scouts know this and prepare their defense accordingly? It's not hard to defend against a guy when the other team knows exactly what he's gonna do with the puck every time he has it.

 

[The Apologist]

You know we traded our all-star right winger who routinely scores 30 goals and ~70 points right?

Anything close to 50 is definitely satisfactory if the possession and he defensive play is there.

From a points perspective, the expectation is much different this year.

Funny, the guy who played with that all star winger who oddly enough was supposed to fall off the face of the earth is doing ok.

I was under the impression Kadri was an offensive catalyst?

 

[The Apologist]

50 points coming mostly from even strength production with strong defensive play, and drawing penalties is great.

50 points coming 50% from the PP and floating defensively is not.

While Kadri's defensive play has improved, strong mighy still be a bit much.

And is a goal on the PP somehow worth less than a 5v5 now? Were not ok with those ones now?

Come on, I love Naz but you gotta admit that at this point he isnt getting the job done.

 

[The Apologist]

There's a reason why he has the most shots on net in the universe. He doesn't pass the puck. Don't you think that just maybe the other teams scouts know this and prepare their defense accordingly? It's not hard to defend against a guy when the other team knows exactly what he's gonna do with the puck every time he has it.

How many times did he float it in on Rask tonight?
"Here I dont want it anymore...."

 

[BertCorbeau]

Strong game for Kadri tonight .. 11/17 on the draw, hit a post on a nice dangle .. Keeps doing a lot of the little things right to help contribute to the team - drawing the penalty the extra attacker on the ice to help get the first goal .. Won the face-off to start the play that led to Komarov's goal.

Not going to complain

 

[Stephen]

Question I have is, are the Leafs better off with two way, process driven possession beast Nazem Kadri who produces no actual offense, or the loosey goosey, agitating, unsustainably high shooting percentage Kadri who manages to put up 40 odd points in 48 games like in 2013? The project will be interesting to see through, whether its worth reprogramming a player if it means you may not benefit fully from his natural strengths.

 

[Bomber0104]

Strong game for Kadri tonight .. 11/17 on the draw, hit a post on a nice dangle .. Keeps doing a lot of the little things right to help contribute to the team - drawing the penalty the extra attacker on the ice to help get the first goal .. Won the face-off to start the play that led to Komarov's goal.

Not going to complain

If Kadri's game is nothing to complain about, then I suppose every other player on the team is doing a great job too.

Seriously, if you looked at every player on the team with these same lowly standards as you do for Kadri, then I suppose they are all worthy of $5 million a year on their next contract right?

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

A player producing points without getting the appropriate amount of scoring chances is a prime candidate for a sell high opportunity; one getting the chances but not producing should be kept, IMO.

hahaha OK, so now to defend Kadri, you're going to tell me a player that doesn't score is more valuable to a team than a player that does score?!?

Strong game for Kadri tonight .. 11/17 on the draw, hit a post on a nice dangle .. Keeps doing a lot of the little things right to help contribute to the team - drawing the penalty the extra attacker on the ice to help get the first goal .. Won the face-off to start the play that led to Komarov's goal.

Not going to complain

Meanwhile, Bozak, who everyone wanted gone, actually put up real points again last night, scoring a goal and also adding an assist. He also won 60% of his FO and actually gave the team a fighting chance to win last night.

He now has 14 points to Kadri's 8, playing 4 less games and playing more than a minute less than Kadri per night.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

This is a good point. I'm not a fan of passing definitive judgments after 20 games. I want to see the vast majority of, if not the whole season.

I look at his whole career and he is a chronic underperformer. This year it's worse with only 2 goals.

 

[Gallagbi]

I look at his whole career and he is a chronic underperformer. This year it's worse with only 2 goals.

What are your expectations for his "performance"?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Well for this season, with his PP time and 1st line minutes ... He needs to score 20 goals

 

[Gallagbi]

Well for this season, with his PP time and 1st line minutes ... He needs to score 20 goals

You mentioned his career, what have been your expectations? I find it tough to say he underperformed in the lockout season and the one following. Even last year is touch and go with the way the season turned out.

Production hasn't been there this season, no question about that.