TSN: Kadri: "The confidence is there"

[Nithoniniel]

As a HF poster I wish he would pick up the pace just to get rid of the more annoying elements of the discussion.

As a Leafs fan I hope it continues exactly like this. That would create an discrepancy between past results, on which contracts are based, and potential future results, where all indications is that he'd perform better. If we can come away from the season with a cheap, relatively long contract that he is very likely to outperform, it's all the better for the team going forward.

 

[MJ65]

As a HF poster I wish he would pick up the pace just to get rid of the more annoying elements of the discussion.

As a Leafs fan I hope it continues exactly like this. That would create an discrepancy between past results, on which contracts are based, and potential future results, where all indications is that he'd perform better. If we can come away from the season with a cheap, relatively long contract that he is very likely to outperform, it's all the better for the team going forward.

I am sure his production is going to get better and better going forward but based on this year's to date production if we can sign him at a bargain price than nothing better then that, but he is a keeper

 

[Menzinger]

I dont think anyone here believes Nazem is going to stay on a 30 pt pace, but is a 40-50 pt pace really much better considering the changes in playing time, situations etc?

A 40-50 point player is incredibly useful piece to have - especially in a league where scoring is down. Not every player on a contending team is going to be 60+ points.

Looking at Boston and LA's cup runs they only had a few players with noticeable point production - the rest of it was more balanced.

 

[Beaumaris]

[QUOTuE=zeke;109702691]let's make a deal.

If Kadri gets above....say a 20gl/50pt pace....will you apologize and agree to start praising him?[/QUOTE]

Why would anyone in their right mind want to praise Kadri? At best he's a #3.
I've been watching Leafs since mid 70's,and I can't remember a worse #1 centre.

 

[BlueBaron]

[QUOTuE=zeke;109702691]let's make a deal.

If Kadri gets above....say a 20gl/50pt pace....will you apologize and agree to start praising him?

Why would anyone in their right mind want to praise Kadri? At best he's a #3.
I've been watching Leafs since mid 70's,and I can't remember a worse #1 centre.

There was this guy named Bozak but it was so long ago you may have forgotten.

 

[HellasLEAF]

I don't think Kadri OR Bozy finish the season as Leafs personally.

These two are trade bait.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

There was this guy named Bozak but it was so long ago you may have forgotten.

Nice one.

I'll bet Bozak had more goals and points by game 20 last year.



Of course, Kadri is allowed alot of excuses:
- he's young.
- he's playing up a line.
- he's an Ontario boy
- he isn't playing with Kessel.
- Kadri has to play defensively responsible this year.
- <insert your excuse here>

Kadri is on a short leash this year.
And he's ... well ... choking !!

I don't think Kadri OR Bozy finish the season as Leafs personally.

These two are trade bait.

100%.

And Kadri is the much more trade-able asset.

The Leafs want to move players.
But you can only trade the movable ones.

I see nothing wrong with keeping Kadri for a bit longer (1 or 2 years) but I don't think he will ever meet Toronto fanbases' expectations. There is zero reason to overpay Kadri. You do *NOT* shore up a #3C when you don't have a #1. Order is everything.

 

[Dreakmur]

As a HF poster I wish he would pick up the pace just to get rid of the more annoying elements of the discussion.

As a Leafs fan I hope it continues exactly like this. That would create an discrepancy between past results, on which contracts are based, and potential future results, where all indications is that he'd perform better. If we can come away from the season with a cheap, relatively long contract that he is very likely to outperform, it's all the better for the team going forward.

Why would he sign a deal that he is going to outperform?

 

[CanadasTeam]

I am sure his production is going to get better and better going forward but based on this year's to date production if we can sign him at a bargain price than nothing better then that, but he is a keeper

Amazing. You could say this 3 years ago and somehow it still applies today..

 

[HellasLEAF]

The thing with Nazem is you see he is a good player and the effort is there from him this year.

But I just don't see any game breaking ability here. If he is to rack up points he will need better linemates who can finish cause I don't see Nazem beating NHL goaltending with any kind of consistency.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The thing with Nazem is you see he is a good player and the effort is there from him this year.

Sure. Agree.

But I just don't see any game breaking ability here. If he is to rack up points he will need better linemates who can finish cause I don't see Nazem beating NHL goaltending with any kind of consistency.

Agree.

Sounds like the job description for a 3C.
Certainly not the job description of a #1-2C.

At the end of the day, as a GM, you attempt to shore up major pieces. Kadri isn't a major piece going forward on the defence first team. That is why he is trade bait.

 

[-DeMo-]

As a HF poster I wish he would pick up the pace just to get rid of the more annoying elements of the discussion.

As a Leafs fan I hope it continues exactly like this. That would create an discrepancy between past results, on which contracts are based, and potential future results, where all indications is that he'd perform better. If we can come away from the season with a cheap, relatively long contract that he is very likely to outperform, it's all the better for the team going forward.

if Kadri continues on this current pace your probably only looking at a new 1 year deal where Kadri takes the qualifying offer he would receive since that would be more then Management would sign him for. or he would go to Arbitration if he thought he could get more that way.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I am sure his production is going to get better and better going forward

You mean he might reach last year's point totals ?
or he'll get better over the next few years ?
or both ?

but based on this year's to date production if we can sign him at a bargain price than nothing better then that, but he is a keeper

Are you will to pay Kadri for "future potential" ?
I dont think Management is.
He's on a one year deal from Management.
Show us what you got Kadri, and we will pay you .... otherwise ........

Why would he sign a deal that he is going to outperform?

You have balls.
Using the words "Outperform" and "Kadri" in the same thought.
Really ?
You are reaching.

 

[Suntouchable13]

People think that an avalanche of goals and points will come from Kadri for years now. It never comes. He is just not that good.

 

[Bluelines]

Huh???? Multi point games exist The 50 point pace is 12-13 points right now, and he has 8, hardly improbable for him to catch pace. The math you did there doesn't really reveal anything unless were assuming that all he can get is a single point a night, which is false.

Also, his best season was a 75 point pace, even though everyone chooses to ignore it. I personally don't think he's going to hit 50+ this season (I don't think a single player will besides maybe JVR), but pretending that it is improbable at this point is pretty far fetched, as one or two multi point nights puts him almost right back on pace.

So Durr not to be terse with you but what Kadri did in the past is irrelevant, in the past Kadri did not have to be accountable to his own end of the ice like Babcock demands. That environment that Kadri previously existed in, in the past is gone, there is a new reality in Toronto that makes it MUCH harder to score at a pace that was previously very achievable.

Do you see there is difference between Randy's left wing lock and Babcock's defensively responsible system?

 

[Grandrift145]

I love kadri and hope he is part of the leafs plans for the future

He is never going to be a first line center because of his average at best shot, but beyond that I love his skill set and his effort.

But he also has been a bit snake bitten

I see him as a 18-22 goal scorer
And 45-55 points. He may exceed that some years and fall short some years like is this year, but thats how I value him

He is a positive asset, no reason to get rid of him, he is just miscast as a first line center. Only way I move him is if someone offers someone offers a better nhl asset for him

I like that production from a second line center or third line center on depp team

I'd give him the same contract as Gardiner, but absolutely keep him under 5. But if he asks for too much keep taking to arbitration. But I'm sure security is important to kadri

Just imagine if he had a good shot……
He'd be a first liner

 

[Nithoniniel]

Why would he sign a deal that he is going to outperform?

I thought that was clear in my post. Contract discussions are based a lot on past results, mainly point production for a forward. It gives him a very bad negotiating position. Meanwhile, a statistical model to predict future production would show a likelihood for better, yet those rarely seem to play a strong part at the negotiating table.

if Kadri continues on this current pace your probably only looking at a new 1 year deal where Kadri takes the qualifying offer he would receive since that would be more then Management would sign him for. or he would go to Arbitration if he thought he could get more that way.

Arbitration wouldn't give him much of a case though.

I've said it before. Kadri could be a perfect example of where future production models show a discrepancy compared to the past results that contract negotiations are based on, and such a discrepancy is something you really want to use, so long as you value the player and person as part of the team. Even if you don't, you could make him a valuable trade commodity.

 

[Lightsol]

I'll bet Bozak had more goals and points by game 20 last year.

6 goals, 11 assists, 17 points in the first 20 games of last season, so you'd be right.

 

[Menzinger]

I see a potential perfect storm developing for the Leafs and Kadri in terms of contract negotiation.

His lower production for the first part of the season will likely lead to a lower end of year final total, which will allow for a lower cap hit during negotiations. I suspect management will be looking at a 3-5 year deal. It buys out the rest of his prime, but doesn't overcommit to him as he ages north of 30.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Personally would rather see him traded at the deadline to a playoff team seeking depth.

I could see Nylander, Bozak, Holland and Carrick as next years centremen. Marner playing the wing in his first season.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

So Durr not to be terse with you but what Kadri did in the past is irrelevant, in the past Kadri did not have to be accountable to his own end of the ice like Babcock demands. That environment that Kadri previously existed in, in the past is gone, there is a new reality in Toronto that makes it MUCH harder to score at a pace that was previously very achievable.

Do you see there is difference between Randy's left wing lock and Babcock's defensively responsible system?

It seems kind of odd that you believe this, and yet you are still harping on point totals as a big issue.

The other parts of his game have looked very good.

 

[BlueBaron]

Nice one.

I'll bet Bozak had more goals and points by game 20 last year.

Probably, he is in a more defensive role and has no Kessel to feed him free points. What was your point exactly ?

 

[The Apologist]

A 40-50 point player is incredibly useful piece to have - especially in a league where scoring is down. Not every player on a contending team is going to be 60+ points.

Looking at Boston and LA's cup runs they only had a few players with noticeable point production - the rest of it was more balanced.

You missed a large part of the quote there. With the minutes, opportunities and situations hes being given, 40-50 is not acceptable. Those are Bozak numbers and many ***** whine incesantly about 'overpaid' he is at 4ish million. Yet many of those same have no issue pencilling Kadri in at 5?

 

[The Apologist]

There was this guy named Bozak but it was so long ago you may have forgotten.

Yup, the guy leading our forwards in scoring

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

"The confidence is there" seems like a book/story title of his pro career to this day. Nothing has changed in that department.....now start producing and get results Kadri!