TSN Radio Kadri odd man out?

[Confucius]

okay. but is Kadri going to score 30 goals from the 3rd line?

Is William going to score 30 from the 1st line? Although Kasper might.

 

[Leafidelity]

You've got to give to get! We need a top 2 D to be a true Stanley Cup challenger IMHO. And no, I don't want Kadri traded.

Babcock recently said he wants Matthews and Tavares around 18mins a night, and Kadri around 16mins. You're gonna hang around in a lot of games if you can regularly expect 52/60 minutes of quality down the middle.

 

[OVO16]

Kadri aint getting a traded. This a stupid trade Rumors

 

[-DeMo-]

trading Kadri today for cap purposes is not smart, if you move him for a significant upgrade on D obviously would look at it. however if I'm planning for the future, 1 of my priorities as leaf Management would be to hopefully develop a Kadri replacement in 2 or latest 3 season's so that I can move him later so I wouldn't need to go 6+ million on Kadri's next contract. that imo is where/when you save money. and by then you should have a better idea of what we have on Defense to determine if the return should be Dmen or picks/prospects.

 

[Stephen]

Kadri on the second line playing a Brayden Schenn roll at $4.5 million is a good value but when he's buried on the third line and playing a decoy role on the PP you can see how you're not getting the bang for your buck. I wouldn't be in a rush to trade him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't finish his contract here. Get a package of futures for him.

 

[Pookie]

You can request it from mods.

I will accept this as a tacit admission that your point that I initially responded to was facetious bull**** that you're not willing to stand behind.

Where did I say the fellow would only have 8 goals?

What I did say was that the fellow has 1G in 10 games and is a -6.

Apparently this is BS to you? Others call it nhl.com/stats

 

[Pookie]

Babcock recently said he wants Matthews and Tavares around 18mins a night, and Kadri around 16mins. You're gonna hang around in a lot of games if you can regularly expect 52/60 minutes of quality down the middle.

We hung around a lot of games last year with Bozak in that middle mix.

I wouldn’t be worried if we had to “settle” for JT and AM.

If a trade makes sense, do it.

 

[4thline]

Where did I say the fellow would only have 8 goals?

What I did say was that the fellow has 1G in 10 games and is a -6.

Apparently this is BS to you? Others call it nhl.com/stats

Well for most people time moves forward, and trades are based on improving future results. Drawing reference to those stats as something we shouldn't be scared to try and replace implies that you personally think that those stats are the performance level we'd have to replace moving forward.

It becomes facetious bs when it is revealed that you don't actually believe that his current stat line is indicative of his likely future contributions.

 

[Pookie]

Well for most people time moves forward, and trades are based on improving future results. Drawing reference to those stats as something we shouldn't be scared to try and replace implies that you personally think that those stats are the performance level we'd have to replace moving forward.

It becomes facetious bs when it is revealed that you don't actually believe that his current stat line is indicative of his likely future contributions.

I did say he would probably end up on 40-50 points. That could be 30 goals and 10-20 assists.

Who knows. Maybe less if his PP time changes or maybe more if Nylander comes back to make him a better player.

Many folks see Kadri as the player and hope he was. What should concern us is where he is and where he will go.

That’s what this analytics team is all about.

He’s got great trade value now and we know that he most likely won’t get better than he has been.

At some point, he will play down to or below his contract.

It’s exactly why I said in the Nylander thread you don’t want to be paying a premium for a player on the downside of their career totals. Peak usually happens 27-28 per published data on the subject.

 

[Not My Tempo]

Underappreciated and undervalued, Nazem Kadri is one of the...

Kadri is probably my favourite Leaf so I’m biased, but the dude is really freaking good. He’s done so much while always playing with black holes offensively. Last year when we put him with Marner he had 30 points in 33 games. I’m gonna be so mad if we trade him for cap space.

 

[Pookie]

Underappreciated and undervalued, Nazem Kadri is one of the...

Kadri is probably my favourite Leaf so I’m biased, but the dude is really freaking good. He’s done so much while always playing with black holes offensively. Last year when we put him with Marner he had 30 points in 33 games. I’m gonna be so mad if we trade him for cap space.

Correct. He always was with Marner on the PP. and 1/3 of those points came on the same PP he always was on.

Well, if he is one of the league’s most undervalued assets.... that should fetch a pretty good return on the market if they take calls on him.

Just an aside if you count his first slump with the Marner change... you get 60 games. 39 points. 16 of which are 1st line PP related. That’s about 50ish points over a full season.

Still good value. Just not an upward trend.

 

[Not My Tempo]

Well, if he is one of the league’s most undervalued assets.... that should fetch a pretty good return on the market if they take calls on him.

If he’s undervalued, why would he fetch a good return?

 

[Pookie]

If he’s undervalued, why would he fetch a good return?

Moneyball. The sensation sweeping the league.

You look for value based contracts where the player contributes more than their cap hit and potentially more if used in a different way.

If a guy from a blog site can see value... surely GMs armed with stats departments and scouts can see value

 

[4thline]

I did say he would probably end up on 40-50 points. That could be 30 goals and 10-20 assists.

Who knows. Maybe less if his PP time changes or maybe more if Nylander comes back to make him a better player.

Many folks see Kadri as the player and hope he was. What should concern us is where he is and where he will go.

That’s what this analytics team is all about.

He’s got great trade value now and we know that he most likely won’t get better than he has been.

At some point, he will play down to or below his contract.

It’s exactly why I said in the Nylander thread you don’t want to be paying a premium for a player on the downside of their career totals. Peak usually happens 27-28 per published data on the subject.

Ah. So we don't need to be scared about replacing 1 goal in the 10 games we've already played, we have to be concerned about replacing the 20+ goals and 40+ points you expect him to provide in the 72 games yet to be played.... Slightly different problem statement don't you think?

Where he is and where he likely will be for the duration of his contract is a guy that can get us 45-55 points a year, giving us a legitimate 2nd line for a 3rd line, with the ability to play up in case of injury. That represents tremendous on-ice value impacting our ability to win games over the next 4 years, especially given his contract. I fully expect 30/60 to be his peak and am not banking on him to hit it again, but he doesn't need to to outplay his contract and a be a piece that is hard to justify moving. Not impossible, but not a guy to try to sell in a hedge against a predicted slight decline in value

 

[Confucius]

Its a move in the wrong direction trading a player who has an edge and stirs it up and is on a great deal in order to keep a soft perimeter player whom management thinks would be overpaid to boot.

 

[IBeL34f]

Moneyball. The sensation sweeping the league.

You look for value based contracts where the player contributes more than their cap hit and potentially more if used in a different way.

If a guy from a blog site can see value... surely GMs armed with stats departments and scouts can see value

And why don't we - a team looking to be competitive this year, and every year for just about the next 2 decades - want a player like that on our team? Why would a team like that be interested in simply getting top trade value for their prime assets when they can use them to try and win?

 

[Pookie]

Ah. So we don't need to be scared about replacing 1 goal in the 10 games we've already played, we have to be concerned about replacing the 20+ goals and 40+ points you expect him to provide in the 72 games yet to be played.... Slightly different problem statement don't you think?

Where he is and where he likely will be for the duration of his contract is a guy that can get us 45-55 points a year, giving us a legitimate 2nd line for a 3rd line, with the ability to play up in case of injury. That represents tremendous on-ice value impacting our ability to win games over the next 4 years, especially given his contract. I fully expect 30/60 to be his peak and am not banking on him to hit it again, but he doesn't need to to outplay his contract and a be a piece that is hard to justify moving.

We don’t have to be concerned with any of it.

Tavares replaced Kadri from last year’s record setting team. That’s done. Already accomplish. No longer 2C. Won’t be playing with Marner except for PP.

Not only replaced but upgraded significantly

Kadri is replacing Bozak. We just need a serviceable 3C.

Kadri is great there. It’s a luxury and if it costs us a young star, it’s foolish to hold on.

 

[Pookie]

And why don't we - a team looking to be competitive this year, and every year for just about the next 2 decades - want a player like that on our team?

Because most of us want young stars and a talent D more.

 

[Budsfan]

I doubt Kadri will be traded right now, it's just speculation.

Nylander though I believe is being shopped, there is a lot of smoke not to expect a fire is going to happen.

 

[Pookie]

I doubt Kadri will be traded right now, it's just speculation.

Nylander though I believe is being shopped, there is a lot of smoke not to expect a fire is going to happen.

Later in the year is a much better time. Or next off season. Agreed.

No rush.

 

[IBeL34f]

Kadri's best point-per-game season came when he played on the 3rd line behind Bozak and Grabovski, and he's currently playing with Lindholm and Brown at even strength. Once he has some more offensive-minded help in Kapanen or Nylander, I imagine it'll have a positive effect on his production.

It's also not the first time he's been snake-bitten, and he tends to pull out of it well once he does get it going again. People were concerned about him last year as well, and look how that turned out.

 

[4thline]

We don’t have to be concerned with any of it.

Tavares replaced Kadri from last year’s record setting team. That’s done. Already accomplish. No longer 2C. Won’t be playing with Marner except for PP.

Not only replaced but upgraded significantly

Kadri is replacing Bozak. We just need a serviceable 3C.

Kadri is great there. It’s a luxury and if it costs us a young star, it’s foolish to hold on.

Here's the the thing, having a high end 2C in the 3C hole makes us a better team than having a "serviceable 3C" in there, and being in the 3C spot doesn't erase the magnitude of contributions. And when you consider that the talent gap to his downgrade is considerably larger than the salary gap it makes it an inefficient place to free up money.

 

[Pookie]

Here's the the thing, having a high end 2C in the 3C hole makes us a better team than having a "serviceable 3C" in there, and being in the 3C spot doesn't erase the magnitude of contributions. And when you consider that the talent gap to his downgrade is considerably larger than the salary gap it makes it an inefficient place to free up money.

It does. 100%. He makes the team better right now.

He’s also a luxury item that may cost the team better players over the long term.

Deadline or before next season. There is no to do a deal now. We don’t even know what’s on offer.

Just be open to it.

That’s all.

Enjoy your day

 

[Budsfan]

Later in the year is a much better time. Or next off season. Agreed.

No rush.

I agree but as Super Dave posted and pointed out in the...
Dubas in Carolina for Canes/Sharks game (Leafs/Canes in trade talks)

"Also, to add fuel to the fire, Carolina had 2 scouts to our game last week --- including their Assistant GM." post #276

So other players may be involved in a Multi-player trade?

 

[Guided by Veseys]

How did this turn into a keep Kadri or lose Nylander narrative? The leafs wouldn’t suddenly overpay Nylander because Kadri is gone. Kadri’s contract is so good that if he is traded, unless he is traded for a comparable contract value wise, you will have less money for Nylander