TSN Radio Kadri odd man out?

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Y'all should do yourselves a favor and instantly disregard and laugh at everything dreger says.

I seriously hold him on eklund level.
He's embarrassing and I doubt he has a single source .

 

[SprDaVE]

For fun lets play the next few games without Gardiner/Hainsey and Zaitsev.
I don't think he's easily replaceable when you have nothing to replace.
I don't want to move Kadri either but depending on how much you commit to Nylander, then the other 2, will you be letting Gardiner walk?
At some point, people will have to go. Maybe more than 1.
If you can't afford Kadri and Zaitsev at 4 million each, you're paying too much in other places.

Yes, people will have to go... eventually. Point is that there are many other areas the Leafs can cut salary. Kadri and his value/production is far from the top of the list.

So if you need to cut cap space to re-sign or fit certain players, Zaitsev is near the top because that contract is not good value.

 

[Mr Hockey]

it would hurt to move Kadri (28) but Willie is (22) and will be a beast on the ice at 25... I move Kadri.

 

[Trapper]

Yes, people will have to go... eventually. Point is that there are many other areas the Leafs can cut salary. Kadri and his value/production is far from the top of the list.

So if you need to cut cap space to re-sign or fit certain players, Zaitsev is near the top because that contract is not good value.

And I feel the same way about a guy who is playing 20 some minutes a night in your top 4 D.
What does an average top 4 D make?

 

[Budsfan]

You're trying to save money. Zaitsev is easily replaceable at his salary and value. Kadri is not.

I agree Zaitsev makes too much money but in spite of some of the gaffs he makes, he is still a pretty good RHD and D are in high demand and most over paid, plus the fact we are looking for another quality defenseman.

 

[Mr Hockey]

People don't understand how valuable a d'man that eats up a ton of minutes is.

 

[SprDaVE]

I agree Zaitsev makes too much money but in spite of some of the gaffs he makes, he is still a pretty good RHD and D are in high demand and most over paid, plus the fact we are looking for another quality defenseman.

He's alright but the money can be better spent and that's sort of the point.

Either way, the Leafs won't have to trade Kadri anytime soon. So we'll be fine.

 

[Trapper]

I agree Zaitsev makes too much money but in spite of some of the gaffs he makes, he is still a pretty good RHD and D are in high demand and most over paid, plus the fact we are looking for another quality defenseman.

Zaitsev is the 4 million dollar Gardiner replacement moving forward.
Rielly at 5 on one pair
Zaitsev at 4 on the 2nd.
I wouldn't be paying Gardiner 6, so there is your sacrifice.
You can't nickel and dime your D that much more. You will crash.

 

[ChuckWoods]

In theory it makes some sense.

Clear Kadri's cap hit off the books, and slide Willie into that spot.

Naz likely won't fit with this team cap wise beyond his current contract, very much like Gardiner.

So why not lock up Willie, who is younger and has a higher ceiling?

That's the theory anyways, which I don't exactly agree with since Nazem provides something for this team that we could use in a playoff run.

But keeping Nazem and not being able to negotiate with Willie does shorten that window just as much as overpaying willie does.

 

[nuck]

He has suggested stupider things but I'm not sure that's an actual consideration if Nylander is going to be bridged. Even if Willie isn't bridged but doesn't have a growth year it could still be him moving and Naz staying to give the cap room needed. I get they can only beat the exact same drum so many times, but this just seems like an attempt to make people pay attention after they are starting to tune out the baseless "insider" contract speculation.

 

[Budsfan]

He's alright but the money can be better spent and that's sort of the point.

Either way, the Leafs won't have to trade Kadri anytime soon. So we'll be fine.

I agree but unless we get rid of some cap we are going to be in trouble signing Matthews and Marner but Zaitsev?

I don't see getting rid of a pretty good D, I think Marleau because of his age and cap hit, is the player that may be considered to be expendable.

Haisey is a pretty good D too but he looks pretty slow at times and he should get less minutes, this adds to keeping Zaitsev and also with Gadiner looking for a new contract and having to sign Ozhiganov?

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

People don't understand how valuable a d'man that eats up a ton of minutes is.

I wonder why folks feel Leafs defencemen are so horrible. You can't be a good team without competent Dmen. Leafs allowed two goals in Winnipeg. Calgary and their highly rated and highly paid Dmen allowed 9 goals last night. I imagine for the next twenty years....the same folks are still going to be saying, "The Leafs dmen are horrid"

 

[zeke]

I wonder why folks feel Leafs defencemen are so horrible. You can't be a good team without competent Dmen. Leafs allowed two goals in Winnipeg. Calgary and their highly rated and highly paid Dmen allowed 9 goals last night. I imagine for the next twenty years....the same folks are still going to be saying, "The Leafs dmen are horrid"

Leafs fans booed a hall of fame dman out of town, in between him winning 2 cups on the penguins' top pair and 2 more cups on the wings' top pair.

 

[SprDaVE]

I agree but unless we get rid of some cap we are going to be in trouble signing Matthews and Marner but Zaitsev?

I don't see getting rid of a pretty good D, I think Marleau because of his age and cap hit, is the player that may be considered to be expendable.

Haisey is a pretty good D too but he looks pretty slow at times and he should get less minutes, this adds to keeping Zaitsev and also with Gadiner looking for a new contract and having to sign Ozhiganov?

It's about efficiency in your lineup. Someone like Kadri completely over produces his cap hit, which is gold in a hard cap. Zaitsev does not. If Zaitsev was signed to a normal contract, he would be much closer to a 3M defenseman.

We have other players that we can cut salary to make up for it. It's not about removing Zaitsev and not replacing him, it's about restructuring. We also have Brown and Marleau that are definitely 100% replaceable. Even Hyman is up there.

When Kadri gets closer to UFA in 2 or 3 years, we can start talking moving him due to his impending raise.

But again, I can't say it enough, the Leafs do not have to make any harsh cap moves going into next season.

 

[Trapper]

It's about efficiency in your lineup. Someone like Kadri completely over produces his cap hit, which is gold in a hard cap. Zaitsev does not. If Zaitsev was signed to a normal contract, he would be much closer to a 3M defenseman.

We have other players that we can cut salary to make up for it. It's not about removing Zaitsev and not replacing him, it's about restructuring. We also have Brown and Marleau that are definitely 100% replaceable. That's over Heck even Hyman is up there.

When Kadri gets closer to UFA in 2 or 3 years, we can start talking moving him due to his impending raise.

But again, I can't say it enough, the Leafs do not have to make any harsh cap moves going into next season.

As soon as we get Willy signed I’d be looking at moving Brown for a Pysyk like D.
I’d feel a lot better with a Brown type salary on D moving forward. Then you can decide to go without Gardiner for the saving.

 

[Duke Silver]

In theory it makes some sense.

Clear Kadri's cap hit off the books, and slide Willie into that spot.

Naz likely won't fit with this team cap wise beyond his current contract, very much like Gardiner.

So why not lock up Willie, who is younger and has a higher ceiling?

That's the theory anyways, which I don't exactly agree with since Nazem provides something for this team that we could use in a playoff run.

But keeping Nazem and not being able to negotiate with Willie does shorten that window just as much as overpaying willie does.

Counter: Kadri's contract isn't preventing us from signing Nylander or putting together a competitive team, and his bargain-bin contract is a competitive advantage we can leverage for the next 4 seasons. There are other places we can cut salary if we're in a financial bind.

IMO, the "Nylander as a Centre" dream needs to die. It's not going to happen under Babcock.

 

[VanW27]

I agree with what most are saying.

I would just add, while it doesn't make since to trade Kadri now, it might in maybe two years. In all likelihood he will want more money then we can give on his next contract to a 30 year old 3rd line centre (this narrative he took a team friendly deal and will again is a bit odd as he was a 20 goal, 45 pt guy to this point when he signed his contract)

But his value around the league would still be good as he'd have a couple years left on a good value deal and on other teams he wouldn't be a 3rd line centre so a deal paying 6/7 mill per would work for them.

 

[Budsfan]

It's about efficiency in your lineup. Someone like Kadri completely over produces his cap hit, which is gold in a hard cap. Zaitsev does not. If Zaitsev was signed to a normal contract, he would be much closer to a 3M defenseman.

We have other players that we can cut salary to make up for it. It's not about removing Zaitsev and not replacing him, it's about restructuring. We also have Brown and Marleau that are definitely 100% replaceable. Even Hyman is up there.

When Kadri gets closer to UFA in 2 or 3 years, we can start talking moving him due to his impending raise.

But again, I can't say it enough, the Leafs do not have to make any harsh cap moves going into next season.

Your Bolded part says it all, 3 players will be getting big raises Matthews, Marner, Nylander and add Gardiner, Hainsey, Ozhiganov, Kapanen and it's not hard to see the Cap issues will be strained plus getting the big three under contract this year is paramount because down the road who knows?

I've already read that some sports in the US are feeling a money crunch with smaller crowds, so one wonders if this could effect NHL cap but with Seattle entering the League, their entrance fee may prop up the cap next year but further down the road?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

You're trying to save money. Zaitsev is easily replaceable at his salary and value. Kadri is not.

He's really not... Not that we should be looking at either to clear salary, but we need Zaitsev more than we do Kadri, even though Kadri is a better player.

If we really get into a cap crunch, Gardiner is gone first. Easily number 1 on the chopping block. Hainsey is already moving out, and Marleau too soon after. If that ends up not being enough, then you start looking at guys like Brown. If that is still not enough, you either messed up or have too many core/high end depth players and you need to decide to move one of them... Which is when you can start talking about moving one of Nylander, Kadri or Zaitsev.

Matthews, Rielly, Andersen, Marner and Tavares are the only true untouchables. Kadri, Nylander and Zaitsev + some good value contracts (for now anyways) like Kapanen, Dermott and Hyman. After that, you either have good depth guys who are valuable but you can probably replace relatively easily(Ozhiganov, Leivo, Brown, Gauthier, Sparks, etc.) and the vets who will not be with the team for very long: Marleau, Gardiner, Lindholm and Hainsey.

 

[SprDaVE]

He's really not... Not that we should be looking at either to clear salary, but we need Zaitsev more than we do Kadri, even though Kadri is a better player.

If we really get into a cap crunch, Gardiner is gone first. Easily number 1 on the chopping block. Hainsey is already moving out, and Marleau too soon after. If that ends up not being enough, then you start looking at guys like Brown. If that is still not enough, you either messed up or have too many core/high end depth players and you need to decide to move one of them... Which is when you can start talking about moving one of Nylander, Kadri or Zaitsev.

He really is and the only reason we need Zaitsev more than Kadri is because Ozhiganov and Holl are the next 2 RHD defenseman.

The goal would be to replace Zaitsev with a cheaper and hopefully better alternative, not flat out removing him, just like if you trade Kadri you're looking to replace him not to remove him completely.

 

[Menzinger]

Darren Dreger stirring nuggets again this morning

https://www.tsn.ca/video/an-nhl-executive-s-theory-could-kadri-be-the-odd-man-out-in-toronto~1524159

So he thinks it makes sense to trade the 30 goal scoring centre with great cap hit in order to keep the 20 goal scoring winger with a much bigger cap hit?

And Colaiacovo agrees that the cap hit makes him appealing to other teams.

"you're absolutely right"

Well I think this is a much different question to ask now vs 3 years from now when Kadri’s deal is up.

Does it make sense to get rid of Kadri when the entire team’s system is now based on stength down the middle? No.

In 3byears when Kadri is about to be a UFA and is 30? You absolutely let him leave or trade him to keep Nylander.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He really is and the only reason we need Zaitsev more than Kadri is because Ozhiganov and Holl are the next 2 RHD defenseman.

The goal would be to replace Zaitsev with a cheaper and hopefully better alternative, not flat out removing him, just like if you trade Kadri you're looking to replace him not to remove him completely.

The problem is that it is next to impossible to find that, and if you do, it'll cost you someone you probably do not want to move. It's the same problem with replacing Kadri.

 

[Alerion]

1. This ruins our much lauded center depth and turns us into a 2 line team. Who's eating the tough matchups now? I know Naz got off to a slow start offensively but possession-wise, that line has been our best so far this season and is largely the victim of poor shooting percentages and perhaps a little lack of offensive talent on the wings.

2. That sweetheart Kadri deal is appealing for the Leafs as they're now in a contender window and need efficient contracts where they're getting excellent value for the player. Kadri took a haircut on his deal just like we're asking our RFAs to do now.

3. If Toronto needs to clear cap space, they'd be much better off trying to move bad contracts (Zaitsev and Marleau) than selling good players on good deals.

This is a terrible suggestion which makes sense when you consider the source.

 

[Goonface2k14]

TSN should trade Dreger and John Lu to Sportsnet for Kypreos, Sid Siexiero, Shawn McKenzie and a bag of expired waffles

 

[SprDaVE]

The problem is that it is next to impossible to find that, and if you do, it'll cost you someone you probably do not want to move. It's the same problem with replacing Kadri.

It's next to impossible to find a 30 goal scorer making secondary money too.

You can find a cheaper alternative a lot easier to replace what Zaitsev provides. He's really not unique, low offence and capable on the PK. I'm not hating on him but he really doesn't do well in hard matchups nor does he drive puck possession.

Again, it's about efficiency and value. Zaitsev is at best worth his money, where as Kadri completely exceeds it.