TSN Radio Kadri odd man out?

[Nineteen67]

Darren Dreger stirring nuggets again this morning

https://www.tsn.ca/video/an-nhl-executive-s-theory-could-kadri-be-the-odd-man-out-in-toronto~1524159

So he thinks it makes sense to trade the 30 goal scoring centre with great cap hit in order to keep the 20 goal scoring winger with a much bigger cap hit?

And Colaiacovo agrees that the cap hit makes him appealing to other teams.

"you're absolutely right"

You should listen to what he said , then comment.

 

[A1LeafNation]

TSN is on a fishing expedition because they have nothing lol.

 

[IPS]

I knew when we signed Johnny that it would have a diminishing returns type effect on our lineup. He's likely getting around ~50 points in his third line role. It's not all that productive if we need to take minutes away from Matthews and Tavares just to maintain optimal production and usage of kadri.

In order to increase the overall effectiveness of our lineup, trading Kadri for D might be the way to go.

 

[Budsfan]

He really is and the only reason we need Zaitsev more than Kadri is because Ozhiganov and Holl are the next 2 RHD defenseman.

The goal would be to replace Zaitsev with a cheaper and hopefully better alternative, not flat out removing him, just like if you trade Kadri you're looking to replace him not to remove him completely.

Where do you find these teams and players, it's difficult to do, there may be a team or two that would trade a good prospect D for an established D like Zaitsev but few teams would first make this deal and then we may be taking a step back, with a player that may or may not be as good as Zaitsev ever?

I just don't see trading Zaitsev.

 

[SprDaVE]

Where do you find these teams and players, it's difficult to do, there may be a team or two that would trade a good prospect D for an established D like Zaitsev but few teams would first make this deal and then we may be taking a step back, with a player that may or may not be as good as Zaitsev ever?

I just don't see trading Zaitsev.

The same problem exists with Kadri though. We've traded 2nd round picks for 4th line center rentals just because we had nothing.

Again, Zaitsev isn't bad per say but we're talking about saving cap. These rival execs aren't that dumb. They are pushing the Leafs needing to trade Kadri because he's terrific and it benefits them. Nobody is talking about Zaitsev for a reason.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It's next to impossible to find a 30 goal scorer making secondary money too.

You can find a cheaper alternative a lot easier to replace what Zaitsev provides. He's really not unique, low offence and capable on the PK. I'm not hating on him but he really doesn't do well in hard matchups nor does he drive puck possession.

Again, it's about efficiency and value. Zaitsev is at best worth his money, where as Kadri completely exceeds it.

He does pretty well against top level competition considering how often he has to do it and who he's doing it with. It's also not like his offensive game is being promoted at all. I think people look at the stats and make judgements about him but do not realize how integral the guy is for this defense and how difficult it would be to find someone like him at his price.

Like I said, neither should be looked at being dealt right now. Besides that main core group of Matthews, Marner, Rielly, Andersen and Tavares, they are with Nylander as guys who are next to certainly not going to be dealt right now. It would take a lot (either really poor cap management or an amazing offer) for the Leafs to consider dealing either any time, because neither are going to be easy to replace.

Until he leave for UFA, Gardiner should be the first high end value guy on the trade block for the Leafs. His offense is not super easy to replace, but given his gaps in other areas and that the Leafs have offensively capable defensemen like Rielly, Dermott and Zaitsev (plus possibly the other guy they bring in if they do deal Gardiner), it would not be difficult to deal with.

 

[Trapper]

He really is and the only reason we need Zaitsev more than Kadri is because Ozhiganov and Holl are the next 2 RHD defenseman.

The goal would be to replace Zaitsev with a cheaper and hopefully better alternative, not flat out removing him, just like if you trade Kadri you're looking to replace him not to remove him completely.

Again how much cheaper do you want to go?
Say Gardiner is gone. Hainsey is gone.
You have Rielly at 5, Zaitsev at 4 and everyone else ELC + league minimum.
Or you dump Zaitsev and give Gardiner 6.
You really can't go any cheaper on D. You can't dump all Gardiner/Hainsey/Zaitsev.
And if people think we can, then trade Gardiner right now before he walks UFA.

 

[Matthews34]

it would hurt to move Kadri (28) but Willie is (22) and will be a beast on the ice at 25... I move Kadri.

I'm happy you're not the GM.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Kadri on the third line is a luxury, I could see why he's being singled out. I'd prefer to keep him but if we play Matthews and Tavares the amount we all want them to play Kadri does start to become attractive to trade.

We arguably need Zaitsev more than Kadri as well, I`m pretty sure that's why his name isn't being thrown around. That doesn't mean Zaitsev is better just he's more needed.

 

[Mess]

Kadri is only one example, but in short order leafs are going to be very very top heavy if Dubas keeps his word and gets all 3 Amigos signed long-term.

With JT they will consume about 1/2 the teams cap .. That means the other half the team 18 players split the balance... The average player making $2.2 mil so $4.5 mil players like Kadri are at risk to be moved out to find cheaper options to balance the cap.

 

[Mr Hockey]

I'm happy you're not the GM.

im just glad i dont have to discuss hockey with you, smh

 

[Havoc]

I'm happy you're not the GM.

That makes one of you.

When Nylander is 25, all the 21 year old Nylander's taking his place will be two tiers below him.

All the 25-31 year olds capable of shutting him down right now will be older and not able to do so any more.

I would jump ship to another team if you became GM. Nylander at 25 will be an absolute stud while Kadri will be almost ready to retire.

 

[SprDaVE]

He does pretty well against top level competition considering how often he has to do it and who he's doing it with. It's also not like his offensive game is being promoted at all. I think people look at the stats and make judgements about him but do not realize how integral the guy is for this defense and how difficult it would be to find someone like him at his price.

Like I said, neither should be looked at being dealt right now. Besides that main core group of Matthews, Marner, Rielly, Andersen and Tavares, they are with Nylander as guys who are next to certainly not going to be dealt right now. It would take a lot (either really poor cap management or an amazing offer) for the Leafs to consider dealing either any time, because neither are going to be easy to replace.

Until he leave for UFA, Gardiner should be the first high end value guy on the trade block for the Leafs. His offense is not super easy to replace, but given his gaps in other areas and that the Leafs have offensively capable defensemen like Rielly, Dermott and Zaitsev (plus possibly the other guy they bring in if they do deal Gardiner), it would not be difficult to deal with.

He really doesn't... Consistenly struggles in every metric in that aspect. Gardiner with Carrick had the same competition when Zaitsev was out and they did better.

At the end of the day, we don't even have to trade either one of them. We have ~35M in cap space right now and that's without an increase in cap space. Nylander, Matthews, Marner and Kapanen will likely total about 30M at the most. That's without making a single trade like Marleau, Brown, etc.

Leafs are not trading Kadri barring a massive overpayment.

 

[haymaker22]

I would like to see Kadri maybe play on the wing with Mathews and Hyman. Now thats depending on if Nylander signs or not. But even if he does maybe he could move up onto one of the 2 top lines. Naz is a great player all around but he often seems to have the most succes when playing with other talented players. Right now he's playing with Brown & Lindholm, and only has 1 goal. He is a natural centre, but I would like to see him on the wing.

What do you guys think?

 

[Trapper]

Kadri on the third line is a luxury, I could see why he`s being singled out. I`d prefer to keep him but if we play Matthews and Tavares the amount we all want them to play Kadri does start to become attractive to trade.

The question then becomes when we sign Willy, where does he play?
You aren't dumping 4 million Kadri to insert ? million Nylander as 3C.
You also aren't paying someone a lot of money not to play with one of Tavares/Matthews. So then you need a 3C. What is the value of 3C around the league? You will have to trade or sign UFA.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

The question then becomes when we sign Willy, where does he play?
You aren't dumping 4 million Kadri to insert ? million Nylander as 3C.
You also aren't paying someone a lot of money not to play with one of Tavares/Matthews. So then you need a 3C. What is the value of 3C around the league? You will have to trade or sign UFA.

I think in that scenario Nylander is with Matthews and the third lines role is reduced. You find a cheap center and run a checking line with a Brown or Hyman like players. Very expensive top 6, cheap but defensively sound bottom 6.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I would like to see Kadri maybe play on the wing with Mathews and Hyman. Now thats depending on if Nylander signs or not. But even if he does maybe he could move up onto one of the 2 top lines. Naz is a great player all around but he often seems to have the most succes when playing with other talented players. Right now he's playing with Brown & Lindholm, and only has 1 goal. He is a natural centre, but I would like to see him on the wing.

What do you guys think?

I'd rather trade him for assets we need then make him into a winger.

 

[SprDaVE]

Again how much cheaper do you want to go?
Say Gardiner is gone. Hainsey is gone.
You have Rielly at 5, Zaitsev at 4 and everyone else ELC + league minimum.
Or you dump Zaitsev and give Gardiner 6.
You really can't go any cheaper on D. You can't dump all Gardiner/Hainsey/Zaitsev.
And if people think we can, then trade Gardiner right now before he walks UFA.

If you can save 2M on Zaitsevs value, that's probably great already. Move out Brown on top of that, you're already well beyond the savings you need.

Just because Zaitsev is part of a questionable defensive core, doesn't mean he's valuable. If he was playing like a Muzzin or Ekholm or something then sure, you might have a point.

Kadri will likely be traded by the end of his contract, or at the worst walk as a UFA, but right now I don't see how he moves for any sort of return because of his value efficiency. Zaitsev is not in the same league and that's the whole point of this.

 

[Budsfan]

The same problem exists with Kadri though. We've traded 2nd round picks for 4th line center rentals just because we had nothing.

Again, Zaitsev isn't bad per say but we're talking about saving cap. These rival execs aren't that dumb. They are pushing the Leafs needing to trade Kadri because he's terrific and it benefits them. Nobody is talking about Zaitsev for a reason.

This is why I have suggested trading Marleau and I have nothing but respect for this great player and what he brings to the table but as I've already stated further down the road because of his age and whether he wants to stay or even if he could be re-signed, he would be the player I would think is expendable.

Marleau's 6.25 mill cap hit plus his age (39) makes him expendable and I don't doubt Kadri will also be traded down the road but unless Nylander wants to play center as part of the deal, Kadri should be kept but he will not score 32 goals but as a 3rd line checking center that can pot the odd goal I think he will not be traded but people here thinking the Leafs will strip players from the top two lines to supplement his line are just wrong.

 

[SprDaVE]

This is why I have suggested trading Marleau and I have nothing but respect for this great player and what he brings to the table but as I've already stated further down the road because of his age and whether he wants to stay or even if he could be re-signed, he would be the player I would think is expendable.

Marleau's 6.25 mill cap hit plus his age (39) makes him expendable and I don't doubt Kadri will also be traded down the road but unless Nylander wants to play center as part of the deal, Kadri should be kept but he will not score 32 goals but as a 3rd line checking center that can pot the odd goal I think he will not be traded but people here thinking the Leafs will strip players from the top two lines to supplement his line are just wrong.

Marleau is 100% priority #1 to move out.

 

[ULF_55]

Kadri is capable of playing 2nd. line center and has a great contract. If you can trade him to fill a need you have to consider it.

You trade him if it makes the team better for a few years.

Goal is to win the Cup for the team, don't really care which players lift the Cup.

 

[1specter]

Kadri on the third line is a luxury, I could see why he's being singled out. I'd prefer to keep him but if we play Matthews and Tavares the amount we all want them to play Kadri does start to become attractive to trade.

We arguably need Zaitsev more than Kadri as well, I`m pretty sure that's why his name isn't being thrown around. That doesn't mean Zaitsev is better just he's more needed.

I'm not sure why this narrative keeps being repeated in this thread.

For everyone who is saying that Kadri takes away ice time from Matthews and Tavares, you guys realize that even Pittsburgh, who won back-to-back cups and have had Crosby/Malkin there for over 10 years, have roughly the same distribution with Derrick Brassard in the fold right?

At 5v5, Crosby plays about 15 and 1/2 min, Geno 14 1/2 min and then Brassard at 13 and 1/2 minutes.

And even back when they had Jordan Staal, it was roughly the same except Crosby and Malkin got 14.5 per game while J. Staal played 13 min.

 

[haymaker22]

I'd rather trade him for assets we need then make him into a winger.

Trade him for a D or another forward?

 

[Leafling]

Does the kadri trade talk/rumour warrant a separate discussion every time lol

He is not going anywhere any time soon. Period. Babs still trust him over the other big two centres for defensive assignments, he is signed to possibly the best contract ever, he is still producing and only seems to mature with age, he loves the city and doesn't mind taking a dip in production to help team win, he is complete 200 ft player, he is the only skilled forward that doesnt mind getting into fights and gets on the nerve of every other team.... Need i go on

U don't trade a guy like that when u are aiming to make a run for the cup!

 

[Budsfan]

Kadri is only one example, but in short order leafs are going to be very very top heavy if Dubas keeps his word and gets all 3 Amigos signed long-term.

With JT they will consume about 1/2 the teams cap .. That means the other half the team 18 players split the balance... The average player making $2.2 mil so $4.5 mil players like Kadri are at risk to be moved out to find cheaper options to balance the cap.

Trading Marleau would still be the best move in this scenario too, Kapenen moves to the L/W and Nylander plays R/W

Kapanen/Matthews/Nylander
Hyman/Tavares/Marner