Value of: Kadri for rebuilding assets

[Albus Dumbledore]

yeah people can have bozak, kadri is not for sale
our forward grit is made up of naz, martin and komarov.
and hes also one of our few vets that are actually pretty good.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Ye man we can trade Kadri and maybe we can get a Kadri from a draft pick

 

[bobg1]

Just because we drafted Matthews does not mean we get rid of other talented players

 

[Menzinger]

Kadri was 56th in points among centers last season how does that make him a 2C on a contender? How do you round up when Kadri is 56th out of 60? Considering there are centers on ELC just a few points behind Kadri with a lot more upside and potential, Kadri is more like 60-70th best center? Nothing special.

What are the excuses for him? His shoot percentage was down, well he pretty much match his average production so if his shoot percentage was down it's because he was taking too many shots and he's so special or drawing penalties, ok but the refs were turning on him by season's end and Kadri creates a side show the Leafs have to defend. He's ok on possession, I don't get the love affair with his mediocrity?

We need both a top pairing RHD and a second pairing RHD.

His sh% wasn't just down, it was freakishly unlucky.

Unless you think he has the snipe of a Colton Orr type player (and we know he doesn't) last season was clearly an unlucky outlier season.

 

[LondonKendrick]

His sh% wasn't just down, it was freakishly unlucky.

Unless you think he has the snipe of a Colton Orr type player (and we know he doesn't) last season was clearly an unlucky outlier season.

Yes because he moved up in the line up (Babcock gave him Bozak's former position) and he took more shots (again his production reflected his career average, that means he was taking more shots, less quality chances).

Never, have I read another player be treated like he had a break out year without actually having one. His production = his typical production, he shot took more shots to get there.

 

[BlueBaron]

Yes because he moved up in the line up (Babcock gave him Bozak's former position) and he took more shots (again his production reflected his career average, that means he was taking more shots, less quality chances).

Never, have I read another player be treated like he had a break out year without actually having one. His production = his typical production, he shot took more shots to get there.

Which kind of suggests that if he had his career average shooting percentage his production would have been higher huh ?

 

[LondonKendrick]

Which kind of suggests that if he had his career average shooting percentage his production would have been higher huh ?

No it's evidence that he reached beyond his ceiling and came up short.

Again, this excuse if offered to no other player in the league. Kadri is just a 40 point guy, not good, not bad. He has a ton of cutesy what if but year in, year out the stats sheet is the same but the excuses are always new.

If anyone took this excuse seriously (beyond Leaf fans being apologists for Kadri) would we read countless threads about targeting players at a bargain that 'suffer' 'career low shooting percentage'? It's silly that only Kadri gets a pass and transparent.

 

[BlueBaron]

No it's evidence that he reached beyond his ceiling and came up short.

Again, this excuse if offered to no other player in the league. Kadri is just a 40 point guy, not good, not bad. He has a ton of cutesy what if but year in, year out the stats sheet is the same but the excuses are always new.

If anyone took this excuse seriously (beyond Leaf fans being apologists for Kadri) would we read countless threads about targeting players at a bargain that 'suffer' 'career low shooting percentage'? It's silly that only Kadri gets a pass and transparent.

ROFL, agenda much?

I made no excuses for Kadri, stated a simple fact, if his shooting % had been average to himself he would have had higher production. Rather than admit this obvious truth you ignore it and then side step.

You kind of put your foot in it there when you ignored the fact people do try and buy low on players that have sub par years in the hopes they rebound.

You clearly want Kadri to be more than he is. He is what he is, a 40-50 point centre who can now play Defense. Nothing wrong with that. Most rational people would concede his production could go up some next year with a normalizing of his shooting percentage and now being used to the Babcock system.

 

[sxvnert]

The stark reality of this is that it is Kadri's fault. He carries the puck to a fault and rarely uses or even looks for his wingers - especially off the rush. Plus he is in love with the toe-drag move and as a consequence he is more often looking down at the puck instead of his options. He was tried with both Kessel and JVR and for the most part it just didn't work - the former needs the puck on his stick on a rush and the latter works hard at getting open in the high percentage scoring areas and needs someone to get him the puck there. Kadri is usually trying to beat the D himself or trying to take a weak shot from a low percentage area when the other team sets up and takes away his options. His shooting percentage had nothing to do with luck, and everything to do with shot selection and location.

That is why unless he changes his style, he will be getting third liners who crash the net on his line because that is what is needed on his line. It's no coincidence that Kadri's point totals went up when playing with Komarov - who would crash the net hard looking for rebounds or tip-in opportunities. Kadri is anything but a pass first guy....he is a pass last guy. He will try to deke or take a weak shot before looking to pass. This is also why he is being groomed for the shutdown 2c/3c role by Babcock, as Babcock recognized this early on.

This is coming from a Leaf fan. Ideally he will be a feisty, scoring 2c/3c who can go against the other team's best. If he would look for his wingers more, he would get more points and more opportunities with skilled players. He simply needs to become more unpredictable with the puck.

Then its Babcocks job to find him the right type of wingers.

 

[Raymoondo]

You know some Leafs fans really don't like Kadri when bert starts defending him.

 

[LondonKendrick]

ROFL, agenda much?

I made no excuses for Kadri, stated a simple fact, if his shooting % had been average to himself he would have had higher production. Rather than admit this obvious truth you ignore it and then side step.

You kind of put your foot in it there when you ignored the fact people do try and buy low on players that have sub par years in the hopes they rebound.

You clearly want Kadri to be more than he is. He is what he is, a 40-50 point centre who can now play Defense. Nothing wrong with that. Most rational people would concede his production could go up some next year with a normalizing of his shooting percentage and now being used to the Babcock system.

I have an agenda? Care to elaborate?

If he took more shots he should have more goals? That's not the way production works and no other player is afford that excuse.

I said Kadri is an average player, I could take him or leave him. The original point I took issue with was that he's a 2C on a contender, that's laughable and I pointed to his 56th production among centers, pointed out that you round down to a 3C out when it's 56th/60.

His pretend 27 goals after adjusting for his handicap is pure fantasy and not a real statistic.

 

[LeafsLegendAkiBerg]

Kadri is probably worth a late first and a b-prospect at best. Maybe the Leafs could ship him off for a #2/3 defenseman of equal value. I've seen some Leafs fans suggest he is worth a top ten pick, but I just don't see it.

He's had good possession numbers for the last year or two, but his offensive numbers have taken a major dive. He's gets a lot of excuses (bad teammates, unlucky shooting percentage, not enough playing time), but to me a see a player who doesn't utilise his teammates and takes a lot of weak wristers from bad angles.

He does have a nasty edge to his game. Sometimes he can cross the line and throw some boderline dirty checks. He's also gotten a reputation as a diver.

I think he's a decent 2nd liner on an okay team, and a good third liner on a great team. Whether he's worth the money or the cost he'll likely get (late first/b-prospect) is up to the team who wants him.

To be honest, I think the Leafs are better off keeping him for now. Maybe he was worth trading before the extension, but that's a big contract to move and our center depth isn't so great until Matthews (and maybe Nylander) step up.

I've also been called a Kadri hater for suggesting that he was barely a 50-point player, so who knows. It seems like every season he's perpetually ready to break out but JVR or Komarov or Bozak or player X is holding him back from greatness.

 

[Connor]

Kadri is probably worth a late first and a b-prospect at best. Maybe the Leafs could ship him off for a #2/3 defenseman

Kadri is worth far less than either of those.

Look at the centres who are free agents next season. How many are as good or better than Kadri?

 

[Ducks in a row]

Kadri is probably worth a late first and a b-prospect at best. Maybe the Leafs could ship him off for a #2/3 defenseman of equal value. I've seen some Leafs fans suggest he is worth a top ten pick, but I just don't see it.

He's had good possession numbers for the last year or two, but his offensive numbers have taken a major dive. He's gets a lot of excuses (bad teammates, unlucky shooting percentage, not enough playing time), but to me a see a player who doesn't utilise his teammates and takes a lot of weak wristers from bad angles.

He does have a nasty edge to his game. Sometimes he can cross the line and throw some boderline dirty checks. He's also gotten a reputation as a diver.

I think he's a decent 2nd liner on an okay team, and a good third liner on a great team. Whether he's worth the money or the cost he'll likely get (late first/b-prospect) is up to the team who wants him.

To be honest, I think the Leafs are better off keeping him for now. Maybe he was worth trading before the extension, but that's a big contract to move and our center depth isn't so great until Matthews (and maybe Nylander) step up.

I've also been called a Kadri hater for suggesting that he was barely a 50-point player, so who knows. It seems like every season he's perpetually ready to break out but JVR or Komarov or Bozak or player X is holding him back from greatness.

A top pair defenseman (#2D) is worth a lot more. A #3D is also worth more. If a team trades a #2D or #3D for him they are crazy.

 

[glasses91]

Id take Kadri over Fowler...

 

[kb]

Then its Babcocks job to find him the right type of wingers.

Tim Kerr, Dave Andreychuk, and Thomas Holmstrom have all retired.


Or, he could make simple adjustments in his game instead of trying the same things over and over. Why is nothing ever Naz's fault? Always seems to be his linemates, teammates, or his coaches fault.

 

[Connor]

Id take Kadri over Fowler...

If one were starting a team from scratch and the first player picked was between Kadri and Fowler, much more non-Leaf and non-Duck fans would choose Fowler.

 

[Dustin]

No thanks. Kadri is fundamental in sheltering and developing the kids. I don't want 4th line vets playing 1st or 2nd line minutes to help with the kids. I want 1st or 2nd line players, forcing the kids to take the minutes from them.

 

[BlueBaron]

I have an agenda? Care to elaborate?

If he took more shots he should have more goals? That's not the way production works and no other player is afford that excuse.

I said Kadri is an average player, I could take him or leave him. The original point I took issue with was that he's a 2C on a contender, that's laughable and I pointed to his 56th production among centers, pointed out that you round down to a 3C out when it's 56th/60.

His pretend 27 goals after adjusting for his handicap is pure fantasy and not a real statistic.

Firstly I am not making any excuses for him because he is just fine as he is. I do find it humorous you do not think there is a correlation between shots and goals, why take any shots at all then?

Sorry man, I don't have any more time for this.

 

[LondonKendrick]

Firstly I am not making any excuses for him because he is just fine as he is. I do find it humorous you do not think there is a correlation between shots and goals, why take any shots at all then?

Sorry man, I don't have any more time for this.

Because quality of chances matter?

Again, your argument hinges on the if and buts that you confuse as 'facts' while ignoring he took more shots during his 'slump'.

It's cool, I'd abandon a bad argument if I were you too.

 

[Menzinger]

Because quality of chances matter?

Again, your argument hinges on the if and buts that you confuse as 'facts' while ignoring he took more shots during his 'slump'.

It's cool, I'd abandon a bad argument if I were you too.

And do you have any evidence that proves that Kadri took less "quality" shots than in years previous?

All we know is that 1) he took more show overall this past season, and 2) that his sh% was well below his career average.

 

[Batrous]

If any centre on the leafs gets traded it would be Bozak.

Kadri is the type of veteran player that you want to keep on a team like the leafs. Last season wasn't a great year but he still put up respectable numbers on the worst team in the nhl last year.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Id take Kadri over Fowler...

Unless your worried about Fowler walking into free agency in two years or your team is good on the blueline and needs center help you would be crazy totake Kadri over Fowler.

 

[LondonKendrick]

And do you have any evidence that proves that Kadri took less "quality" shots than in years previous?

All we know is that 1) he took more show overall this past season, and 2) that his sh% was well below his career average.

So we know he took more shots and he didn't score on them but you're going to assume that they were of high quality?

I'm in the hypothetical logic debate with a Kadri mark, -deep breath- was 56th in production among centers, in line with his career average... just an average schmuck.

 

[leaflover]

Kadri is an average #2 center. He's nothing special and he's not bad either. He'll play on the edge occasionally which i'm normally a big fan of but more often than not it causes him to lose his focus and then his effectiveness. It's similar to Darcy Tucker though nowhere near as extreme.
He's signed for 6 years so it's quite possible the Leafs draft and develop a better option for the 2nd line over that time period. If that were to happen then you're talking 3rd line center which indicates a very strong team, at least down the middle. That's what I want to see happen. It could be similar depth to the days of Gilmour, Sundin and Ridley which I really enjoyed.