Proposal: Kadri for Manson

[lwvs84]

According to Leafs fans, Nylander is a 1C which means he could take over 3C until they find a replacement or have Brown/Kapanen play in the top 6 since Leaf fans have said that both are capable top 6 forwards.

In a vacuum, Kadri for Manson might be fair, but the upgrade from Henrique to Kadri at 2C is SIGNIFICANTLY less than the downgrade from Manson to Schenn/Wellinksi/young d-man. Manson is a fairly unique d-man in the league right now, there are relatively few guys who can skate and throw hits like he can while being very solid defensively (he had a great offensive year too, but I think that will be an anomaly... I hope I'm wrong on that). I don't think the Ducks would trade Manson for anything remotely close to fair value, it would have to be a massive over pay to get them to even think about it. For Toronto, it would probably be better asset management to go after a cheaper, shorter term solution while some of their prospects develop rather than over pay for Manson.

 

[Randy Randerson]

According to Leafs fans, Nylander is a 1C which means he could take over 3C until they find a replacement or have Brown/Kapanen play in the top 6 since Leaf fans have said that both are capable top 6 forwards.

In a vacuum, Kadri for Manson might be fair, but the upgrade from Henrique to Kadri at 2C is SIGNIFICANTLY less than the downgrade from Manson to Schenn/Wellinksi/young d-man. Manson is a fairly unique d-man in the league right now, there are relatively few guys who can skate and throw hits like he can while being very solid defensively (he had a great offensive year too, but I think that will be an anomaly... I hope I'm wrong on that). I don't think the Ducks would trade Manson for anything remotely close to fair value, it would have to be a massive over pay to get them to even think about it. For Toronto, it would probably be better asset management to go after a cheaper, shorter term solution while some of their prospects develop rather than over pay for Manson.

agree with the stance on both sides

I think that most reasonable HFleafs posters would say that Nylander has a good chance of being a center, not that he's a shoe-in 1C. Kadri takes the toughest match ups, so probably wouldn't be wise of use to slot Nylander in to that role if a vacancy opened either

 

[TGWL]

Kadri is about $500k more expensive than an ELC player earning all the schedule bonuses, he's on an unreal contract that takes him through 21/22 so the timing aligns well. I wouldn't take the risk on a prospect and the likely downgrade in result for that savings (which is likely more than $500k/year, but it's not likely more than what a 3rd line forward makes now for context)

Any prospect they get where the player is earning $3,775,000 is a problem Ducks would love to have. I understand what you're saying about those contracts coming off the books, but Ducks are looking to get a little younger now, so a 1C prospect would be great for them.

 

[imjustzach]

According to Leafs fans, Nylander is a 1C which means he could take over 3C until they find a replacement or have Brown/Kapanen play in the top 6 since Leaf fans have said that both are capable top 6 forwards.

In a vacuum, Kadri for Manson might be fair, but the upgrade from Henrique to Kadri at 2C is SIGNIFICANTLY less than the downgrade from Manson to Schenn/Wellinksi/young d-man. Manson is a fairly unique d-man in the league right now, there are relatively few guys who can skate and throw hits like he can while being very solid defensively (he had a great offensive year too, but I think that will be an anomaly... I hope I'm wrong on that). I don't think the Ducks would trade Manson for anything remotely close to fair value, it would have to be a massive over pay to get them to even think about it. For Toronto, it would probably be better asset management to go after a cheaper, shorter term solution while some of their prospects develop rather than over pay for Manson.

Pretty much everything I was thinking, particularly the 2nd paragaph. In terms of fair value trades, the Ducks should be looked at as a team that has available D prospects moreso that proven NHL D. They won't move their top 4 unless its for an overpay. Manson and Lindholm would require a particularly large overpay since Lindholm is a #1D and Manson's playstyle is unique not only on the ducks but throughout much of the league.

Good valuation on the proposal imo. Just not the right fit.

 

[Liferleafer]

According to Leafs fans, Nylander is a 1C which means he could take over 3C until they find a replacement or have Brown/Kapanen play in the top 6 since Leaf fans have said that both are capable top 6 forwards.

In a vacuum, Kadri for Manson might be fair, but the upgrade from Henrique to Kadri at 2C is SIGNIFICANTLY less than the downgrade from Manson to Schenn/Wellinksi/young d-man. Manson is a fairly unique d-man in the league right now, there are relatively few guys who can skate and throw hits like he can while being very solid defensively (he had a great offensive year too, but I think that will be an anomaly... I hope I'm wrong on that). I don't think the Ducks would trade Manson for anything remotely close to fair value, it would have to be a massive over pay to get them to even think about it. For Toronto, it would probably be better asset management to go after a cheaper, shorter term solution while some of their prospects develop rather than over pay for Manson.

Nothing like a big ole bowl of bullshit....

 

[Falco Lombardi]

If the Ducks trade Manson anytime soon, I’ll eat a hat. Value aside, they’ve got absolutely no reason to move him.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Any prospect they get where the player is earning $3,775,000 is a problem Ducks would love to have. I understand what you're saying about those contracts coming off the books, but Ducks are looking to get a little younger now, so a 1C prospect would be great for them.

oh I agree that the Ducks would love to have that, I just think there's other ways they would go about getting it than Manson, they have lots of stuff that's worth good picks and prospects when the time comes to retool/rebuild. I don't think a C prospect contributes at a high enough level in time to really help this version of the team, so if that's what they're looking to do I think they would take the Kadri over a prospect what has a chance to be better than Kadri and the likely ~$2.5M in average cap savings over the first 3 years starting a year or two down the road. Kadri is still comparatively young to the Ducks forward core, contributes immediately, and is still very inexpensive while also being a known quantity - so I think if the Ducks are trading a 26yo defender for a center (which is not likely looking at their roster) it would be to try to win before the Getz/Perry era ends

personally I think the ducks should just rebuild the forward core and hang on to their good young defense, their hand will probably be forced if they don't have a good result this year

 

[Kamiccolo]

Easy pass from Anaheim, really doesn't consider their needs at all.

Newflash, the Ducks only have four D capable of top four minutes, and they have Getzlaf/Henrique/Kesler down the middle plus our top prospect is as center as well. These constant offers that ask the Ducks to open a gaping hole in their blueline for the forward you'd be most willing to give up, are really pointless and misguided.

Vatanen and Theodore have recently been moved, it's time to recalibrate and stop considering Anaheim the team with the surplus of D to shop from.

Newflash, I doubt anyone would take Henrique over Kadri considering he has been the better player for a while now, and who would take the corpse of Kesler or a prospect over a two way 30G scoring center?

Leafs lose this deal because even if the skill is even in the deal, Kadri brings an element the team would completely lack.. Balls.

 

[stymie]

I felt that with Kesler breaking down there might be a trade to be made but the Duck fans put the kibosh to that.
Thanks for the measured responses everyone.

 

[LMFAO]

Except, Kesler is a commitment for four more years for Anahiem, no matter where his play level is. Plus, Anaheim played him over 18 minutes a game last year, so clearly they don't feel as bad about him, as you do.

Perhaps Henrique is better at LW, but they have been using him at C.

But, under the scenario that they take Kadri, and move Henrique to LW.... is the marginal improvement, worth the hole Manson creates? Clearly no.

This just isn't interesting to Anaheim.

---------------------

As a Leafs fan, if Anaheim offered this, I'd personally drive Kadri to Cali.... but they won't, nor would it be close. The improvement it would make to the Leafs roster, would be more than the loss of Kadri, and finding a 3C, would be easy compared to finding a top pairing RHD.

When he said Kesler is done, he meant he is really done... it looks like he won't play at all next season.

 

[imjustzach]

Nothing like a big ole bowl of bull****....

To be fair, in the Nylander trade threads, there were a lot of Leafs fans saying he was a 1C. Not saying that all leafs fans think that nor do I think that myself. You seem like one of the more reasonable/realistic Leafs fans I've seen posting here. (I think you and Starat327 are the two posters I've "liked" the most lol)

I think he's like a better version of Rakell. Played C in the past but is better on the wing and can play C in a top-6 capacity if needed.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Newflash, I doubt anyone would take Henrique over Kadri considering he has been the better player for a while now, and who would take the corpse of Kesler or a prospect over a two way 30G scoring center?

Leafs lose this deal because even if the skill is even in the deal, Kadri brings an element the team would completely lack.. Balls.

We just signed Henrique and have Kesler signed for four more years. Regardless of any opinion you have on those players, the Ducks aren't opening up a gaping hole in their blueline to jam yet another center in the mix.

 

[IPS]

I felt that with Kesler breaking down there might be a trade to be made but the Duck fans put the kibosh to that.
Thanks for the measured responses everyone.

I wouldn't rule it out entirely.

I can't see Kesler lasting too much longer.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Don't see Ducks fans doing this.

They aren't employed by the team.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I wouldn't rule it out entirely.

I can't see Kesler lasting too much longer.

If he does turn out to be done, the Ducks would need a solid checking line center to take the defensive load off of Getzlaf/Henrique and avoid rushing Steel.

But there's just no way in hell they would give up the likes of Manson to address that possible need.

 

[Randy Randerson]

If he does turn out to be done, the Ducks would need a solid checking line center to take the defensive load off of Getzlaf/Henrique and avoid rushing Steel.

But there's just no way in hell they would give up the likes of Manson to address that possible need.

if Kesler's done, would it be time for a forward corps rebuild anyway?

 

[dwright5314]

Not this again...

 

[imjustzach]

Newflash, I doubt anyone would take Henrique over Kadri considering he has been the better player for a while now, and who would take the corpse of Kesler or a prospect over a two way 30G scoring center?

Leafs lose this deal because even if the skill is even in the deal, Kadri brings an element the team would completely lack.. Balls.

To be fair, if you got Manson, you would just be moving your team's 1 set of balls to the blue line.

In terms of the trade, Kadri>Henrique and definitely Kes as this point so I don't know that anybody is saying we'd rather have Rico/Kes over Kadri. What I think is trying to be expressed it that the the difference between Kadri and Henrique is far smaller than the difference between Manson and the next best RHD on the team.

Really what this trade would do for the Ducks is upgrade their 3C role but create a bigger hole at RHD that's harder to fill because of the scarcity of defenseman with Manson's playstyle. It's just easier to go out and find a lesser 3C for futures than to find another D in the league like Manson.

 

[imjustzach]

if Kesler's done, would it be time for a forward corps rebuild anyway?

We're not sure if Kes is done or not. His play this year will likely dictate his future. His contract is definitely an issue if he's done but luckily the Ducks have a lot of really good forward prospects (Jones, Steel, Terry, Morand, Comtois) and most of their core is under 27 so they're more likely to wait out the contract and fill with new ELCs than to blow up and rebuild.

 

[Hammettf2b]

They aren't employed by the team.

The team isn't part of this forum.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Manson is by far the more valuable asset here but if the Ducks are in dire need of a top end 3C/low end 2C, I could see them pulling the trigger just like the Oilers did innthe Hall/Larsson trade.

Sometimes you got to lose on value/talent to fill a hole.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

if Kesler's done, would it be time for a forward corps rebuild anyway?

I'd hardly say the forward core is built around Kesler, so no I can't say I agree with that.

 

[Kamiccolo]

To be fair, if you got Manson, you would just be moving your team's 1 set of balls to the blue line.

In terms of the trade, Kadri>Henrique and definitely Kes as this point so I don't know that anybody is saying we'd rather have Rico/Kes over Kadri. What I think is trying to be expressed it that the the difference between Kadri and Henrique is far smaller than the difference between Manson and the next best RHD on the team.

Really what this trade would do for the Ducks is upgrade their 3C role but create a bigger hole at RHD that's harder to fill because of the scarcity of defenseman with Manson's playstyle. It's just easier to go out and find a lesser 3C for futures than to find another D in the league like Manson.

Understandable and a well thought out and articulated post. I agree.

 

[Viqsi]

Kadri is one of the least likely players on our team to be traded, yet there's all these Kadri proposals popping lately. It must be summer time.

It doesn't help that he used to be the most commonly offered Leafs player pre-breakout. Add that to the "they already had Matthews and just signed Tavares" common knowledge and it becomes easy to presume he's readily available.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Pass