Proposal: Kadri for Manson

[jrgtml67]

Like I said it is not wise to value a player purely on where they are playing in your lineup.

If we are talking this actual trade the Leafs also have to consider what they would need to trade to get a #3C to cover Kadri's spot as they aren't any left in FA that would work.

The value is fine but the implications of trading Kadri, espcially considering his amazing contract, are pretty big.

Not saying I wouldn't make the trade but if I was the GM I would obviously check what the costs of acquiring a good #3C is with term as well as what their contract would be etc etc.

To reply to the guy you answered. I think far too many dont see what we have in Rielly and Gardiner. Look at both the last 2yrs stats..those are top pair numbers.

Also people crapping on Jake stop. He was one of our best D all yr and had the worst game 7 of life..so all people remember is that. Does he make you scratch your head at times ..yes. But he also makes dandy plays as often..not to mention Zaitsev is the one people should be more upset with. He had a terrible yr...left Jake out to dry a ton. His best game o the yr was game 7.

We aren't trading our best contract (esp at center) when we have no other center to replace him internally. Who's our 4th guy even? Lindholm, Goat? Moore is still UFA. I think he may well retire. Our strength as an organization is skilled, speedy wingers..and goaltending..thanks too Lou we technically have 3 choices for Freddys backup (sparks, picks and curtis) we also have Kask, that new Eeamon kid and Cal Heeter. That is where the trade will come by..or shipping out a LHD Zaitsev comes to mind, maybe maybe Lilijgren but I think it's far to early to do so. Plus we drafted Sandin who many projected between 15 and 21 not where we took him..why? All the stupidity in the top 5 or 6 picks led players to fall to other teams and it snowballed and we got lucky. Anyway kadri is going no where and Manson I cant see why the Ducks would trade him.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Like I said it is not wise to value a player purely on where they are playing in your lineup.

If we are talking this actual trade the Leafs also have to consider what they would need to trade to get a #3C to cover Kadri's spot as they aren't any left in FA that would work.

The value is fine but the implications of trading Kadri, espcially considering his amazing contract, are pretty big.

Not saying I wouldn't make the trade but if I was the GM I would obviously check what the costs of acquiring a good #3C is with term as well as what their contract would be etc etc.

Not nearly as big as acquiring the biggest need for Toronto, a player whos younger and who would play a higher position in Toronto.

This should not require nearly as much thought. Toronto trades Kadri for Manson 100% of the time without question

Ill be as brute to say anyone who thinks Toronto keeps Kadri over a trade for a top pair dman (whether its Manson or not) is just an absolute homer who wants to keep all their shiny toys

 

[Randy Randerson]

no, there is no missed step

Kadri plays 3C for Toronto, Manson would be top pair for Toronto

Toronto fans wont give up their 3C for a top D

how on earth you garnered two paragraphs out of that is beyond me

again, I believe you're confusing where Kadri plays in one of the strongest lineups at his position in the league with what his trade value is.

You feel a compulsion towards needing to balance a lineup, and that's fine, but being weaker at one position and extremely strong at another works just fine

I guess...

and it doesnt change a thing. Kadri being the 3C means he is expendable due to Tavares and Matthews, especially for a young top pair talent that Toronto DESPERATELY needs. Whether or not Kadri is better than all 3Cs out there doesnt change the fact that he is Toronto's 3C and would instantly be moved if Manson was available. NOW, if Kadri was 2C, then that is a different debate. But he isnt so its no debate in my mind, which ahould be pretty obvious to most.

According to Toronto's needs, top pair D >>>> 3C

Here's how desperate Toronto is for making changes to the lineup today: Odds to Win the 2019 Stanley Cup: Maple Leafs Holding Steady as Favorites

It also seems that you're of the belief that a team can only get maximum value out of 2 lines, which isn't how some really good teams (like the 2x cup winning Penguins) roll their lineups out. There's plenty of minutes and powerplay minutes to go around for 3 lines, and it's a match up nightmare for most teams to try to contain 3 really good lines

 

[34]

Not a bad proposal. Not sure either team goes for it.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

again, I believe you're confusing where Kadri plays in one of the strongest lineups at his position in the league with what his trade value is.

You feel a compulsion towards needing to balance a lineup, and that's fine, but being weaker at one position and extremely strong at another works just fine


Here's how desperate Toronto is for making changes to the lineup today: Odds to Win the 2019 Stanley Cup: Maple Leafs Holding Steady as Favorites

It also seems that you're of the belief that a team can only get maximum value out of 2 lines, which isn't how some really good teams (like the 2x cup winning Penguins) roll their lineups out. There's plenty of minutes and powerplay minutes to go around for 3 lines, and it's a match up nightmare for most teams to try to contain 3 really good lines

Remember when oilers were cup favorites last year

 

[Randy Randerson]

Remember when oilers were cup favorites last year

Not saying its a guarantee by any means, just that the need to find a defenseman is greatly exaggerated. It's a weakness in our lineup, but the neutral odds makers see flaws in every lineup by the looks of it

The Oilers played a lot better than their fate last year though, and I think Tampa is a better team than the Leafs right now for what it's worth

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

The leafs finally get the centre depth they could only dream of 8 years ago and there are 5+ kadri proposal threads.

The leafs biggest hole is that top RHD but it is not necessary if we have to create another hole. The team is fine as is. Let the season begin and then reevaluate.

I'd say Toronto's center depth would be just fine with Matthews and Tavares. That's elite depth already. You're dealing from a position of strength to address a weakness. That's called give and take.

If I was Toronto I'd take this deal and run.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I'd say Toronto's center depth would be just fine with Matthews and Tavares. That's elite depth already. You're dealing from a position of strength to address a weakness. That's called give and take.

If I was Toronto I'd take this deal and run.

So you think it makes sense for the Leafs to have a center depth of:

Matthews
JT
AHL Player #1
AHL Player #2

That's cup winning center depth right there...

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Remember when oilers were cup favorites last year

Remember when the oilers made a bunch of panic trades and now don't have any skilled wingers....

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

So you think it makes sense for the Leafs to have a center depth of:

Matthews
JT
AHL Player #1
AHL Player #2

That's cup winning center depth right there...

Hyperbole much? Apparently it's easier to get a #1/2 defenseman than it is to fill a 3c role with something other than ahl fodder.

Got it.

 

[Spazkat]

So you think it makes sense for the Leafs to have a center depth of:

Matthews
JT
AHL Player #1
AHL Player #2

That's cup winning center depth right there...

I've seen numerous other threads where Nylander is portrayed as a 1C option to other teams. If that's the case is there some reason he can't play 3C?

Given the way you phrased this you seem to be implying that either he's an AHL C or a winger

 

[Randy Randerson]

Hyperbole much? Apparently it's easier to get a #1/2 defenseman than it is to fill a 3c role with something other than ahl fodder.

Got it.

our center options after the top 3 right now are Par Lindholm & Frederik Gauthier, so literally AHL players

Also calling Manson a #1/2 seems strong, he had a good year but just barely broke the 20mins/game mark and did that for the first time in his career while more than doubling his career best offensive production. When Leaf fans say that Morgan Rielly is a #1, these are the exact arguments we get that he isn't - number of minutes and that he's only done it for a year

I would love to get Manson, but unless we're at the point of diminished returns because the centers are cannibalizing eachothers ice time, then the Leafs lineup wouldn't be better with Manson, only more balanced

I've seen numerous other threads where Nylander is portrayed as a 1C option to other teams. If that's the case is there some reason he can't play 3C?

Given the way you phrased this you seem to be implying that either he's an AHL C or a winger

Nylander isn't proven as a center yet, he hasn't done anything to disqualify himself as one (has been good there when he's played there, definitely a successful center at every level on the way up), but it would be premature to make trades based on the assumption that Nylander is a center. It's probably 50/50 whether he's able to be or not

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Hyperbole much? Apparently it's easier to get a #1/2 defenseman than it is to fill a 3c role with something other than ahl fodder.

Got it.

Manson isn't the type of defender to drive a pairing so he will never be a #1D. Just not his style, more of a complementary defender. He is looking like a #2 though, need to see another year on the top pairing though.

I'm not saying it is easier to fill the #3C slot, I'm saying if the Leafs make this trade they would 100% have to make a trade for a 3C with term and on a good contract as they can't be overpaying their 3C.

Every team would know this so the Leafs would get absolutely fleeced.

Dealing from a position of strength to fill a position of weakness is a good thing until it turns the position of strength into a position of weakness like this trade does.

Center depth wins cups, Kadri ain't going nowhere

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I mean at this point there is no reason to still be talking, Anaheim wouldn't make this move anyway.

 

[FerrisRox]

Straight up.

I am more comfortable with a wait and see approach for the bottom 2 centres than I am with waiting on the RD to develop.
Ducks at least get an offer for something they need & not magic beans. Quality for quality.

Let'er rip.

I don't see the Ducks doing this value-wise and in terms of team needs, Manson helps them a lot more than a center would.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I don't see the Ducks doing this value-wise and in terms of team needs, Manson helps them a lot more than a center would.

Yeah people seem to forget
Manson is 1/2 the top shut down pairing in the league. You trade him and our pairings look like
Fowler Montour
Lindholm Schenn
Larsson Sustr/Welinski

not exactly super appealing, wed basically be creating a hole in our defense.

 

[Fogelhund]

our center options after the top 3 right now are Par Lindholm & Frederik Gauthier, so literally AHL players

A

Just noting, this is a guy with ZERO AHL games in his background, so to call him an AHL player is factually incorrect.

He's a SHL player for now... and we shall see if he ever plays a game in the AHL, or moves straight to the NHL.

 

[Fogelhund]

Yeah people seem to forget
Manson is 1/2 the top shut down pairing in the league. You trade him and our pairings look like
Fowler Montour
Lindholm Schenn
Larsson Sustr/Welinski

not exactly super appealing, wed basically be creating a hole in our defense.

We aren't forgetting at all... but we want half that pairing, to be sent to us... you know, because WE NEED TO BE BETTER. We will send you a decent piece, but won't take into any consideration your needs, and gosh dang it, you will be happy with it.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Just noting, this is a guy with ZERO AHL games in his background, so to call him an AHL player is factually incorrect.

He's a SHL player for now... and we shall see if he ever plays a game in the AHL, or moves straight to the NHL.

sure I guess, he's not an NHL center which was the point. Was this really post worthy?

 

[Fogelhund]

sure I guess, he's not an NHL center which was the point. Was this really post worthy?

No worse than a large percentage of posts on here.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I value both players highly but Manson even more so than Kadri.

 

[Paul4587]

Kesler is done and Henrique is better at LW though

Kesler is playing this year.

 

[Revelation]

Kesler is playing this year.

Opening night?