Player Discussion Julien Gauthier

[maris]

I worry that he doesn't have a scorers hands

 

[Raspewtin]

it's not my favorite example since he still kinda just got here but Gauthier's treatment is why I really don't get how Quinn has earned the moniker of a development coach. He's really not. He's just as conservative and leans just as heavily on vets as any other coach.

we desperately need a goal against Colorado and PdG and Steven Fogarty get more regular shifts than a prolific scorer at all levels.

 

[TheDirtyH]

it's not my favorite example since he still kinda just got here but Gauthier's treatment is why I really don't get how Quinn has earned the moniker of a development coach. He's really not. He's just as conservative and leans just as heavily on vets as any other coach.

we desperately need a goal against Colorado and PdG and Steven Fogarty get more regular shifts than a prolific scorer at all levels.

OTOH Fox, Lindgren, DeAngelo, Hajek, Georgiev, and Shesterkin have all gotten big roles fairly quickly

 

[Kovalev27]

I worry that he doesn't have a scorers hands

that’s the least of his problems. He’s scored everywhere he’s ever played

 

[Raspewtin]

OTOH Fox, Lindgren, DeAngelo, Hajek, Georgiev, and Shesterkin have all gotten big roles fairly quickly

1. Georgiev and Shesterkin didn't exactly give him a choice. The over-the-hill, declined star or the goalies winning games. It's pretty binary.

2. Lindgren, not really. He's still very low in ES TOI among our D core. He should be comfortably leading every night.

3. Hajek isn't on the team so IDK what this means (and rightfully so)

4. Fox is still having gaps in his usage. Trouba still regularly outranks him in minutes and its only pretty recent that Fox is getting similar matchups. And even then, it's quite an easy decision when Fox is a calder finalist (or winner in any sane year) and the other RHD option is Tony who you don't want getting those minutes cause that isn't where he's most effective.

5. It is well documented that in defensive and offensive situations he still leans heavily on veterans. Nights where Panarin, Stome, and Zibanejad get 22+ TOI and the bench shortenings trickle down to kids are pretty common

6. Stapling Ryan Strome to Panarin no matter how cold either of them are

When I say Quinn is just as conservative that's not exactly a bad thing. I have no issue giving Panarin 22 minutes a night really. He just doesn't do anything that the average NHL coach wouldn't do imo.

 

[TheDirtyH]

1. Georgiev and Shesterkin didn't exactly give him a choice. The over-the-hill, declined star or the goalies winning games. It's pretty binary.

2. Lindgren, not really. He's still very low in ES TOI among our D core. He should be comfortably leading every night.

3. Hajek isn't on the team so IDK what this means (and rightfully so)

4. Fox is still having gaps in his usage. Trouba still regularly outranks him in minutes and its only pretty recent that Fox is getting similar matchups. And even then, it's quite an easy decision when Fox is a calder finalist (or winner in any sane year) and the other RHD option is Tony who you don't want getting those minutes cause that isn't where he's most effective.

5. It is well documented that in defensive and offensive situations he still leans heavily on veterans. Nights where Panarin, Stome, and Zibanejad get 22+ TOI and the bench shortenings trickle down to kids are pretty common

6. Stapling Ryan Strome to Panarin no matter how cold either of them are

When I say Quinn is just as conservative that's not exactly a bad thing. I have no issue giving Panarin 22 minutes a night really. He just doesn't do anything that the average NHL coach wouldn't do imo.

Lundqvist hasn't really at any point before being benched for a month played worse than Georgiev, but like take a peak over to DC if you think this scenario's to be expected. Hajek started the season on the #1 pair. Lindgren gets used heavily on the penalty kill. Trouba out toi-incing Fox doesn't really negate that Fox and Deangelo are #2 and #3 at even strength--both see more ice time in overtime than trouba as well.

If your point is that he doesn't play the kids enough, maybe that's true, but it's not like he's had Staal on Trouba's left side all season.

 

[True Blue]

1. Georgiev and Shesterkin didn't exactly give him a choice. The over-the-hill, declined star or the goalies winning games. It's pretty binary.

2. Lindgren, not really. He's still very low in ES TOI among our D core. He should be comfortably leading every night.

3. Hajek isn't on the team so IDK what this means (and rightfully so)

4. Fox is still having gaps in his usage. Trouba still regularly outranks him in minutes and its only pretty recent that Fox is getting similar matchups. And even then, it's quite an easy decision when Fox is a calder finalist (or winner in any sane year) and the other RHD option is Tony who you don't want getting those minutes cause that isn't where he's most effective.

5. It is well documented that in defensive and offensive situations he still leans heavily on veterans. Nights where Panarin, Stome, and Zibanejad get 22+ TOI and the bench shortenings trickle down to kids are pretty common

6. Stapling Ryan Strome to Panarin no matter how cold either of them are

2. Lindgren should be the leading all of the defensemen in ice time? And you have not seen him take steps forward in his development?

3. Maybe Hajek's play should be at a level that earns him a spot on the team?

4. Of course Fox is still having issues. He is a rookie after all. And again, have you not seen improvement in his play?

5. Should those players not be getting the majority of the ice time?

6. Seems that stapling Strome to Panarin has produced excellent results for both players and for the team. Why would he break that up?

He just doesn't do anything that the average NHL coach wouldn't do imo.

Seems to me he took the youngest team in the league and all that comes with it and has them within striking distance of the playoffs. All the while, having the best power play in NY in 25 years, with veteran players taking steps forward in their play and the young players taking steps forward in their development. Pretty sure not "any" coach would have attained some results.

 

[Leetch3]

it's not my favorite example since he still kinda just got here but Gauthier's treatment is why I really don't get how Quinn has earned the moniker of a development coach. He's really not. He's just as conservative and leans just as heavily on vets as any other coach.

we desperately need a goal against Colorado and PdG and Steven Fogarty get more regular shifts than a prolific scorer at all levels.

this same argument is made every time the new favorite young player isn't just blindly given ice time...there is more to player development than just giving them ice time.

and what does needing a goal against Colorado have to do with being a development coach? are you looking for him to do what he thinks is best for gauthier's development or are you looking for him to try to win a game against colorado?

 

[2014nyr]

all things considered i like this kid, especially for our roster. hopefully where he was drafted doesn't give people expectations of a potential star type, but he's got some nice qualities. the obvious is the big body and great speed, and what i really love is he has zero fear of contact...although to date his contact has been limited to engaging when he has a puck driving to the net, would love to see him add some nastiness and physicality on the forecheck and in finishing checks in general. he's got very decent hands esp re puck protection on the rush and a good shot. the downside is he's def more of a straight lines meat and potatoes forecheck guy thats not a great forechecker yet, not a ton of hockey sense, and just ok creating off possession. two of those things can be improved...he can be coached into better and more effective efforts using his speed to forecheck and create turnovers/space, and he can improve positioning and timing when we''re controlling the puck offensively. the hockey sense though, vision/patience wise, isn't something thats picked up at this level nor would i want us to even address that. there's gonna be times he gets a puck at the blue line and just starts pushing up the wall on a 2 on 3 rush where had he looked up he had a breakaway pass...2 on ones the pass is wide open he forces a chance at the post, that's who he is there. and in those one-offs its tough to watch. but on a team where almost everyone else in the top 9 on a 2 on one would try to slide a pass through the body of a sliding defender with 0.0% chance of getting the pass across rather than shoot, its nice to have at least one guy that has an alternate mindset. he's not a superstar, but he's def got a chance to be a quality top 9 guy, maybe top 6. to me hes a chris kunitz, not in the style / body sense. but that in the right situation he can be a first line 40 goal guy as a compliment, but isn't going to drive any line. ie if he played for colorado with a guy like mackinnon on a line that loves to rush and given the respect dmen have to play mackinnon with he could wind up with 3 breakaways every game and pot 40 a season. whereas if you throw him on this years detroit team he has 9 goals and 11 points. i definitely would have liked to see him get a run w/ mika after kreider went down, i understand digiuseppe had more trust w/ the coaching staff, but i don't think gauthier is that much more of a liability that it wasn't worth taking a stab at seeing what that combo could do.

 

[egelband]

I was impressed by his breakaway speed from basically standing. Pulling away - with the luck - from a defender. He seems to be nice and quick in small spaces. Maybe that’s considered a good first step?

 

[bobbop]

it's not my favorite example since he still kinda just got here but Gauthier's treatment is why I really don't get how Quinn has earned the moniker of a development coach. He's really not. He's just as conservative and leans just as heavily on vets as any other coach.

we desperately need a goal against Colorado and PdG and Steven Fogarty get more regular shifts than a prolific scorer at all levels.

Playing at altitude was probably a factor in Colorado.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Playing at altitude was probably a factor in Colorado.

They say Gauthier plays best at sea level

 

[Leetch3]

Analyzing the top 10 prospects for the NY Rangers: No. 5 Julien Gauthier

 

[Larrybiv]

Eh, I think we say that about certain players and while there's some truth to it, I think we cannot underestimate the power of chemistry.

I think we've seen that work both ways over the years --- through the dark times, as well as through the Jagr years.

Instinct tells us that 2+2 should equal four. But sometimes it only amounts to 3.

Likewise, sometimes 1+2 ends up equaling 5.

But sometimes I think we get so fixated on what "should" work, and "who" we want it to work for, that we end up trying to force the issue to get what we want and not necessarily what's actually working.

Every once in a while, someone says something so insightful while hitting the nail on the head.
Couldn't agree more, and thanks. Example:
There are Strome supporters here and many are not, stating the easy "anyone can play with Panarin". And that obviously is true.......but just go ahead and ask Panarin who he likes on his line. I'd bet he would say Strome. Yes, he is a knucklehead taking stupid penalties, yes, he misses many sure fire scoring opportunities and is not anything close to resembling a pure goal scorer but........Again, ask Panarin.

 

[Larrybiv]

I think Nylander is one of the best neutral zone stick handler like ever. But the NHL before 05’ was of course the worst possible fit for him. He had some legendary WCHs for Sweden before we got him when Renney coached Canada, definitely think that played a huge part in that we went out and signed him.

The problem I have with Strome is not what I think he can do with Panarin, it’s what we would get away from Panarin and at what cost.[/QUOTE]

I think it would be crazy to think that we could get any kind of similar production from Ryan playing away from Panarin, if he could come close.......on the third line that would be awesome and would prove his worth even more and add flexibility when things got stale. The thing is, it was working and Quinn just left it alone, but some games when Strome was away from Panarin, it was like he was invisible. So in essence let's face it, Strome needs Panarin a hell of a lot more than Panarin needs Strome. In a nutshell.

 

[Larrybiv]

Should try him in place of CK while Chris is out. Just for kicks.

I guess management didn't want to make Chris feel like he was easily replaced, playing a rookie no less, with less than 10 NHL games. LOL. #giveChrisKreidersomerespect!

 

[NYRangers16]

it's not my favorite example since he still kinda just got here but Gauthier's treatment is why I really don't get how Quinn has earned the moniker of a development coach. He's really not. He's just as conservative and leans just as heavily on vets as any other coach.

we desperately need a goal against Colorado and PdG and Steven Fogarty get more regular shifts than a prolific scorer at all levels.

Chytil is relegated to 3rd line, Kakko loses all confidence before coming back and we trade for Gauthier only to have him playing behind Fast. I agree with your assessment. Also, this could be another Fox level move, getting a young star cheaply. But who knows if the Rangers understand that, given the usage.

 

[Larrybiv]

There is. I think that he needs to use his body a lot more. It can only be to his advantage. He basically needs to watch Kreider play for a while.

No offense but, Kreids doesn't exactly throw his body around......now does he? I still say the league literally castrated him early on, and was made VERY AWARE from Torts that he needs to stay on the ice. Come to think of it......when was the last time he was in a fight?

 

[ElLeetch]

Take it for what its worth, but the last game i saw down here in CLT before this trade was Pack vs. Checkers, and the only two players on the ice who looked like they had an NHL presence for either team were Kravtsov and Gauthier.

Gauthier had 1G, 2A (pack got destroyed 7-1), and looked like the Pack D had a hard time with him. Kravtsov had a ton of chances that were flubbed by teammates.

 

[True Blue]

No offense but, Kreids doesn't exactly throw his body around......now does he? I still say the league literally castrated him early on, and was made VERY AWARE from Torts that he needs to stay on the ice. Come to think of it......when was the last time he was in a fight?

I am not necessarily talking about throwing the body around so much, rather than using his size to his advantage.

 

[nyr2k2]

No offense but, Kreids doesn't exactly throw his body around......now does he? I still say the league literally castrated him early on, and was made VERY AWARE from Torts that he needs to stay on the ice. Come to think of it......when was the last time he was in a fight?

November, after he boarded Tennyson and then kicked Rooney's ass. He was thrown out for the boarding.

He was fourth on the team in total hits and sixth in H/60 among regular skaters. I think his physicality is fine; he's not a mauler, but if he has someone lined up he'll certainly go for the hit.

And hopefully he's not in many more fight. Would rather have him on the ice than in the locker room with a broken hand or something.

 

[Larrybiv]

Sheesh. Brett Howden gets a LOT of hate here.

Kid's just 21, lol.

Guess that's old for some folks around here.

For perspective, Buch is 24 and still putting it together, but is looking more and more like a pretty good hockey player.

I'm thinking in 2/3 years Howden's got a good shot at being a pretty solid 3rd line C, but what the hell do I know.

I think the genesis of Howden being hated on (to a degree) is he was a great deal of WHO we counted on to make this trade palatable based in who we gave up. Instant pressure from us, and literally thrown into the fire, maybe a bit prematurely. The kid has done EVERYTHING asked of him, just hasn't lit up the scorecard (not many do at that age). At least he didn't demand a trade like someone else I know.

I don't know why, but I put him in a Stepan lite category.
Seems defensively responsible, and like Steps doesnt seem to excel in any specific category. But, if he CAN become that, would be a good thing.

 

[Larrybiv]

Agreed, maybe the most over-hated player on our team. Not many 21 year olds are capable penalty killers like he is, I think he gets treated unfairly because of the McDonagh trade.

Ha! Now that I scrolled back to where I was.....I just said the same, only more extensively. Great minds think alike i suppose.

 

[Larrybiv]

This isn’t a scapegoat thing. He has been flat out bad the last two years. Sure he has small flashes of competency, but he has been way more bad than good.

He is playing the PK by default. I think he has gotten better at it, but then again you would hope so with the amount the role has been force fed to him. He is more willing to block shots than in the beginning. He is getting into lanes more. Stick work is better. Still has trouble clearing pucks where he just turns it back over to the other team.

5v5 he is a black hole. He is not great on the faceoff dot and he drags down his line. Someone pull up the advanced stat charts of the 3rd line with him and then with DiGuiseppe added. And DiGi isn’t some “savior”, he just provides capable play that leads to some more possession time and offensive zone time.

He is only 21. I hope he improves. I really do. Because right now* as it stands he is the only piece from the McDonagh trade 2 years ago that is playing in the NHL. Lundkvist will make the trade a win, but you hope Howden become a 3rd line player in this league that helps a team win

True that, and I still have hopes for Hayek. Man, all I could envision was that sweet snipe he had for his 1st goal (wasnt it?) If he didnt get hurt, quite possibly he would be sharing the Howden hate.....wouldnt he?
That's how it goes around here.

 

[NYR Viper]

True that, and I still have hopes for Hayek. Man, all I could envision was that sweet snipe he had for his 1st goal (wasnt it?) If he didnt get hurt, quite possibly he would be sharing the Howden hate.....wouldnt he?
That's how it goes around here.

Hajek just needs to simplify his game. The tools are there