Joshua Leivo

[ShaneFalco]

If not scoring = bad player

 

[GoldenGOOSE]

I am a far better player than Leivo and Brown. I hate watching the Leafs now. They will not make the playoffs.

 

[nuck]

The roster is depleted and Johnsson has not been the player he was at then end of last year. If JL is ever going to get a shot in the top 9 this has to be it.

 

[Alerion]

It's hard to disagree with those numbers but do they equate to results?

Results are goals, assists, points and wins.

Leivo might be doing a lot of good things, but if he's getting 1 goal in 22 games then we have to set aside the analytics.

Don't we?

I suspect that with better quality linemates, the goals would come fast. Look no further than Kapanen who never produced on the fourth line but has flourished with more opportunity.

 

[hector morrison]

It's hard to disagree with those numbers but do they equate to results?

Results are goals, assists, points and wins.

Leivo might be doing a lot of good things, but if he's getting 1 goal in 22 games then we have to set aside the analytics.

Don't we?

How many goals does he need . As many as Hyman while not playing with the same quality line-mates?

 

[rumman]

I am a far better player than Leivo and Brown. I hate watching the Leafs now. They will not make the playoffs.

a legend in his own mind.

 

[ToneDog]

I suspect that with better quality linemates, the goals would come fast. Look no further than Kapanen who never produced on the fourth line but has flourished with more opportunity.

If I recall correctly, Kappy scored a couple of pretty significant goals 2 years ago. Timely shorty in game 7 vs Bruins as well. Yeah, he didn't do much until he was moved up to Matty's line.

 

[ottomaddox]

How many goals does he need . As many as Hyman while not playing with the same quality line-mates?

Well he would need be better at forechecking, puck recovery, and penalty killing. Then we might be able to measure up. Hyman did get 40 points last season while be the line mucker and not the playmaker/shooter.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Leafs Report Cards: Game 12 vs. Calgary by Dom Luszczyszyn
Josh Leivo - 3 Stars (4th best winger, again) - 'not a fourth line forward'
I will forever stan for Leivo who is very clearly an NHL forward and very clearly a top-nine forward at that. Glad he’s getting an opportunity and he looked pretty good tonight with some solid forechecking, creating some good chances in limited minutes.

Another interesting number (in addition to the numbers I posted earlier) is Leivo's PDO - a ridiculously low 89.1. comfortably the lowest on the team. Also worth nothing for people complaining about his -4 is that his expected +- is +1.1. The guy's just suffering from ridiculously bad puck luck, not just himself but the rest of the team when they're on the ice at the same time.

All the underlying stats point to a guy who's playing well and the eye test tells me the same thing. I'm not worried about Leivo at all and given a proper chance (which should be soon considering how our forwards are under performing as a whole lately), I believe he can establish himself as a valuable top 9 forward.

 

[thewave]

Another interesting number (in addition to the numbers I posted earlier) is Leivo's PDO - a ridiculously low 89.1. comfortably the lowest on the team. Also worth nothing for people complaining about his -4 is that his expected +- is +1.1. The guy's just suffering from ridiculously bad puck luck, not just himself but the rest of the team when they're on the ice at the same time.

All the underlying stats point to a guy who's playing well and the eye test tells me the same thing. I'm not worried about Leivo at all and given a proper chance (which should be soon considering how our forwards are under performing as a whole lately), I believe he can establish himself as a valuable top 9 forward.

When you look at Leivo properly there is nothing to really complain about. He's an NHL player at this point and not doing anything to jeopardize that. Brown is an NHL player as well but because of how often he does things that end up with us losing possession, he seems to suit the 4th line and PK role perfectly. He's simply not in the right spot. Leivo generates and is good along the wall while Brown disrupts and gets the puck out, unfortunately for Brown, you tend to want that 3rd liner to be able score or do things that lead to scoring as well.

 

[zeke]

Leivo has been easily the best of our bottom 6 forwards.

 

[GoonieFace]

Leivo has been easily the best of our bottom 6 forwards.

This is the equivalent of saying Bologna is the healthiest of the processed deli meats.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Like almost every NHLer (case in point Karlsson from Vegas and Kappy from Leafs) if you put them on the 4th line with pluggers expect very little scoring production. If you put them on 1st line then their scoring numbers will go up dramatically. Of course you need to match lines so you have all the needed skills too. 3 guys who shoot don't make a good line. 3 guys who skate and pass don't make a good line. 3 guys who skate and check well don't make a good line. When you make a line with a skater passer and a forechecker who gets pucks and a shooter then you have something good. Hyman - Tavares - Marner (perfect). Leivo - Matty - Kappy (close to perfect). ??? - Kadri - Nylander (work in progress needs another Hyman). Johnsson - Goat - Brown (solid 4th line by nhl standards). Marleau will be placeholder for Kadri's line but it really is the wrong guy now as he does not do anything particularly well at 40.

 

[zeke]

This is the equivalent of saying Bologna is the healthiest of the processed deli meats.

our bottom 6 has been pretty great, actually.

 

[deletethis]

This is the equivalent of saying Bologna is the healthiest of the processed deli meats.

Baloney is also a synonym for something else.

Leivo has been okay but I don't get the love. He sure does get way more promotion than the other Leafs foot soldiers. The 4th line excuse only goes so far. If you don't stand out on the 4th line, you're nothing terribly special, remember the 4th line's opposition is the other team's 4th line. Nylander, Marner, Brown, Kapanen have all looked good when demoted to the 4th line. If you're relying on your linemates to stand out, you aren't a higher end talent. Again I don't dislike Leivo, he has played well enough to stay in the lineup to date. That's a positive development.

 

[Fogelhund]

Leivo has been easily the best of our bottom 6 forwards.

our bottom 6 has been pretty great, actually.

I'd actually put forth the argument that Gauthier has been our best bottom six, though Leivo hasn't been bad either.

Leivo has tremendous possession stats, though Freddy isn't too far behind..

To me the difference, Leivo has been on the ice for 3.5 GA/60, while Freddy has been on the ice for 0.0 GA/60.
Meanwhile, Goat has 1.6 GF/60 while Leivo is at 1.2 GF/60.

But, with Matthews out, we do need a bit more offense from our Bottom six.. so some of these guys need to step up a bit, for us to continue to have success in his absence.

 

[TheShape]

Smart player and great along the boards. Could easily play with Tavares and Marner.

Won’t ever move off 4th line under Babcock though unless we have mass injuries.

 

[GoonieFace]

our bottom 6 has been pretty great, actually.

Leivo, Gauthier, Brown, Johnsson, Ennis and Lindholm are our bottom 6 I guess. You think they have been great? You must have real low standards. From a production standpoint they are a complete mess. They have a total of 4 goals between them, Brown's was an empty netter.

 

[ACC1224]

Smart player and great along the boards. Could easily play with Tavares and Marner.

Won’t ever move off 4th line under Babcock though unless we have mass injuries.

Are you referring to Leivo?
He looks like the same borderline NHLer that he always has.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Smart player and great along the boards. Could easily play with Tavares and Marner.

Won’t ever move off 4th line under Babcock though unless we have mass injuries.

He'll be more than a 4th liner eventually IMHO, really hope it's with the Maple Leafs!

 

[Fogelhund]

Leivo, Gauthier, Brown, Johnsson, Ennis and Lindholm are our bottom 6 I guess. You think they have been great? You must have real low standards. From a production standpoint they are a complete mess. They have a total of 4 goals between them, Brown's was an empty netter.

Production is important, but net production is even more important. Lindholm, Gauthier have been on the ice for more goals for, than goals against at 5v5. Brown, Ennis, Johnsson, Kadri, Leivo have not.. With context, Lindholm has 66% Dzone starts, and most of these guys are hovering around 60% +- Dzone starts.. This group contains our leaders in the team possession wise. If you can keep the puck, and not bleed much when you have your bottom six on the ice, you have a chance, if your top six is scoring. If not, your bottom six needs to score too, which is where we are as a team right now. For the most part, this group has done as asked... played the hard time in the Dzone, kept the puck, and not given up too many goals. There is more to consider in a contribution to a team, than scoring goals... though yes, we are going to need them to step up more.

 

[TheShape]

Are you referring to Leivo?
He looks like the same borderline NHLer that he always has.

Will offer more offensively than Hyman and Brown at the moment. Too bad Babcock is too rigid to make a simple switch.

 

[ACC1224]

Will offer more offensively than Hyman and Brown at the moment. Too bad Babcock is too rigid to make a simple switch.

Neither of those players are there for their offense.
Brown has been bad , no doubt. Hyman is a far better player than Leivo, it's not even close.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Is it me or does Leivo ****ing BLOW this season? The dude seems to miss the net constantly (in the past he seemed to have a good shot at least). He doesn't have puck skills and isn't a great passer and isn't particularly physical or effective in the corners. Seems like a waste of a roster spot. That breakaway whiff was cringe-worthy.

Also, it'd be nice to get some more offense out of guys like Marleau, Brown, Gauthier, Ennis, Johnsson, even Lindholm.

It's just you.
He's actually played really well given where he slots and his skill set.
He battles on the boards (and wins) as well as provides a decent fore-check.
Not everyone is Marner.

 

[TheShape]

Neither of those players are there for their offense.
Brown has been bad , no doubt. Hyman is a far better player than Leivo, it's not even close.

We aren’t creating much offensively. Hyman and Tavares have about zero chemistry. Try something different.