Waived: Jordin Tootoo

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Odds of trade happening today?

How much of his salary are we going to have to take on before someone will give us a conditional 7th for him?

And finally, which teams are the most likely suitors based on these conditions?

I've heard Florida and Nashville as potentials.

0% chance

 

[Henkka]

I've been quietly hoping for Boyle to hit the open market. I think he'd be great on our second pairing with Smith or Kindl.

Forgot Boyle. But I think the Sharks will strongly try to extend him like Rangers will extend Girardi.

Hopefully he will remember and feel it at his old bones, how much easier it was with travel at east (@Tampa) and considers Wings.

 

[Chance on Chance]

Odds of trade happening today?

How much of his salary are we going to have to take on before someone will give us a conditional 7th for him?

And finally, which teams are the most likely suitors based on these conditions?

I've heard Florida and Nashville as potentials.

I think only like 8 teams would have cap room for him

 

[crashman]

Maybe half of the cap-penalty, taking more would not make any sense, because the cap penalty does same thing than the salary retainment.

I don't think Tootoo is enough attractive than for 1.5 million if he isn't attractive for 1.9 million. For 1.0 million some team could be interested, but then the salary retainment value is a big as the cap-penalty from waivers. So why bother for a trade? We can keep him as an incurance if we need him at some point of this season, or at next season.

Those were pretty much my exact thoughts, but we could still get a draft pick (even if it's a conditional 7th) if we went the retain salary and trade route. Plus, they'd be doing Tootoo a favor in the process, which Ken holland is known for doing for players.

The only problem with that is that it doesn't solve the Wings salty cap issues.

 

[BF3]

Maybe half of the cap-penalty, taking more would not make any sense, because the cap penalty does same thing than the salary retainment.

I don't think Tootoo is enough attractive than for 1.5 million if he isn't attractive for 1.9 million. For 1.0 million some team could be interested, but then the salary retainment value is a big as the cap-penalty from waivers. So why bother for a trade? We can keep him as an incurance if we need him at some point of this season, or at next season.

I thought a team could take on the entire cap hit while another (Red Wings) pays part of the actual $$$ salary. Like if a team is cheap but wants to bump their cap up a bit, this is a way they can have a higher cap hit than they are actually paying the guy.

 

[crashman]

I thought a team could take on the entire cap hit while another (Red Wings) pays part of the actual $$$ salary. Like if a team is cheap but wants to bump their cap up a bit, this is a way they can have a higher cap hit than they are actually paying the guy.

Nope, that would be like reverse cap circumvention.

 

[Henkka]

I thought a team could take on the entire cap hit while another (Red Wings) pays part of the actual $$$ salary. Like if a team is cheap but wants to bump their cap up a bit, this is a way they can have a higher cap hit than they are actually paying the guy.

I think those cap-figures and current salaries will go hand-in-hand in these scenarios. 50% of the contract max value is the highest ilmit you can retain.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I think those cap-figures and current salaries will go hand-in-hand in these scenarios. 50% of the contract max value is the highest ilmit you can retain.

correct.

 

[JPE123]

I've kind of given up on seeing Nyquist before the playoffs. The cap is a mess courtesy of some really bad contracts. Sammy, Cleary, Quincey et al have us paying a lot to non producers. Sad to see a guy like Gus stuck in the minors but that's what KH has dealt us. We'll probably have a decent season but not icing our best team. And Pav and Henk aren't getting any younger. I'm worried that by the time the younger talent comes up they will be on the downside. But hey, at least we have Daniel Cleary

 

[Henkka]

I've kind of given up on seeing Nyquist before the playoffs. The cap is a mess courtesy of some really bad contracts. Sammy, Cleary, Quincey et al have us paying a lot to non producers. Sad to see a guy like Gus stuck in the minors but that's what KH has dealt us. We'll probably have a decent season but not icing our best team. And Pav and Henk aren't getting any younger. I'm worried that by the time the younger talent comes up they will be on the downside. But hey, at least we have Daniel Cleary

Still the thing what is causing this were those Sammy's threats to argue about the possible buyout because he'll had an injury. If they would have bought Sammy out, there won't be any forward logjam or cap-problems.

If Sammy would have been bought out, no one would whine that much about Cleary signing, because blocked Nyquist down etc. At least, on this day when Tootoo is waived, it would have been recall day for Gus. But at current situation, we have waive another body before that happens.

I understand the logic, Holland thought that the team is overall better, when hitting at the playoffs, if Cleary is playing instead of Sammy. Cleary maybe kills the offense, but he helps the PK and is more useful tool than Sammy. Because Helm-situation was still unsecure, Cleary-extension was some kind of reasonable logic. Now, Helm is healthy, things turned better than the worst-case scenario (Helm never returns), and we have too many bodies to fit that one kid in.

Mostly those contracts that block Nyquist down were done at summer 2012, not this summer. It looks easy to blaim Cleary-contract, because that happened the latest and looked unnecessary on that moment. But Cleary is better player than the worst dead weight in our team. That makes us better, and Dany-boy with that 1.75M isn't the worst deal possible if you think it in big picture.

I'm just trying to say, people who are bashing Cleary all the time are barking the wrong tree. The main scapegoat should be Sammy and his refusal for the buyout.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Still the thing what is causing this were those Sammy's threats to argue about the possible buyout because he'll had an injury. If they would have bought Sammy out, there won't be any forward logjam or cap-problems.

If Sammy would have been bought out, no one would whine that much about Cleary signing, because blocked Nyquist down etc. At least, on this day when Tootoo is waived, it would have been recall day for Gus. But at current situation, we have waive another body before that happens.

I understand the logic, Holland thought that the team is overall better, when hitting at the playoffs, if Cleary is playing instead of Sammy. Cleary maybe kills the offense, but he helps the PK and is more useful tool than Sammy. Because Helm-situation was still unsecure, Cleary-extension was some kind of reasonable logic. Now, Helm is healthy, things turned better than the worst-case scenario (Helm never returns), and we have too many bodies to fit that one kid in.

Mostly those contracts that block Nyquist down were done at summer 2012, not this summer. It looks easy to blaim Cleary-contract, because that happened the latest and looked unnecessary on that moment. But Cleary is better player than the worst dead weight in our team. That makes us better, and Dany-boy with that 1.75M isn't the worst deal possible if you think it in big picture.

I'm just trying to say, people who are bashing Cleary all the time are barking the wrong tree. The main scapegoat should be Sammy and his refusal for the buyout.

if kenny would just have had a plan to bring up his young guys or if they're terrible draft better/trade for other young players then none of this mess would have started in the first place

no need to sign cleary when we had nyquist and could just as easily call up ferraro, sheahan or glendening

no need to not buy out sammy and wait to see if he refuses publicly to accept it, not through a whisper form hsi agent but the man himself via a press conference, it would have had zero negative repercussions on our future ability to win games/championships but we didnt or wouldnt be so bold as to actually do it and let everyone know

its the complete lack of a plan and foresight that has us in this mess and i for one hope none of the 29 other NHL GM's budge an inch to bail kenny out

 

[InjuredChoker]

Still the thing what is causing this were those Sammy's threats to argue about the possible buyout because he'll had an injury. If they would have bought Sammy out, there won't be any forward logjam or cap-problems.

If Sammy would have been bought out, no one would whine that much about Cleary signing, because blocked Nyquist down etc. At least, on this day when Tootoo is waived, it would have been recall day for Gus. But at current situation, we have waive another body before that happens.

I understand the logic, Holland thought that the team is overall better, when hitting at the playoffs, if Cleary is playing instead of Sammy. Cleary maybe kills the offense, but he helps the PK and is more useful tool than Sammy. Because Helm-situation was still unsecure, Cleary-extension was some kind of reasonable logic. Now, Helm is healthy, things turned better than the worst-case scenario (Helm never returns), and we have too many bodies to fit that one kid in.

Mostly those contracts that block Nyquist down were done at summer 2012, not this summer. It looks easy to blaim Cleary-contract, because that happened the latest and looked unnecessary on that moment. But Cleary is better player than the worst dead weight in our team. That makes us better, and Dany-boy with that 1.75M isn't the worst deal possible if you think it in big picture.

I'm just trying to say, people who are bashing Cleary all the time are barking the wrong tree.The main scapegoat should be Sammy and his refusal for the buyout.

you misspelled ken holland.

 

[bababooeyII]

What he said. Ken Holland is to blame for this mess, he should have never signed Sammy or Cleary in the first place. I think it's pretty ****** for a prospect like Nyquist to stew in Grand Rapids ONLY because he has that option left. Nyquist will be 25yrs old before he becomes an NHLer, something is wrong with that. Don't forget as well that this hurts Nyquists's earnings potential going forward

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

What he said. Ken Holland is to blame for this mess, he should have never signed Sammy or Cleary in the first place. I think it's pretty ****** for a prospect like Nyquist to stew in Grand Rapids ONLY because he has that option left. Nyquist will be 25yrs old before he becomes an NHLer, something is wrong with that. Don't forget as well that this hurts Nyquists's earnings potential going forward

we are not playing nyquist so we can reserve the right to not play nyquist and in doing so, are deliberately trying to make our team worse

its not an accident its a conscious decision being made by holland each and every day

 

[Henkka]

What he said. Ken Holland is to blame for this mess, he should have never signed Sammy or Cleary in the first place. I think it's pretty ****** for a prospect like Nyquist to stew in Grand Rapids ONLY because he has that option left. Nyquist will be 25yrs old before he becomes an NHLer, something is wrong with that. Don't forget as well that this hurts Nyquists's earnings potential going forward

Only mistake he has done, is signing Sammy for 2-years. !-year deal would have cleared all problems.

But he couldn't predict Alfredsson is available at 2013 at the summer of 2012. If Alfie would have stayed at Ottawa as was expected and Iginla still chooses Boston, we wouldn't have this mess but would have a weaker team. Things he did at 2012 are causing the problems, but you couldn't predict our becoming acts at 2013 a year before. Nobody has that kind of Crystal ball.

That's what people won't understand in here.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Only mistake he has done, is signing Sammy for 2-years. !-year deal would have cleared all problems.

But he couldn't predict Alfredsson is available at 2013 at the summer of 2012. If Alfie would have stayed at Ottawa as was expected and Iginla still chooses Boston, we wouldn't have this mess but would have a weaker team. Things he did at 2012 are causing the problems, but you couldn't predict our becoming acts at 2013 a year before. Nobody has that kind of Crystal ball.

That's what people won't understand in here.

sammy signing was a mistake

quincey trade was a mistake

miller signing for three years was a mistake

cleary signing was a mistake

weiss signing was not a mistake

alffie signing was not a mistake

 

[Henkka]

we are not playing nyquist so we can reserve the right to not play nyquist and in doing so, are deliberately trying to make our team worse

its not an accident its a conscious decision being made by holland each and every day

Yeah, and it's not killing our success yet, isn't it? We are not anykind of mess like some Flyers and Devils have been. Until that changes, we can argue things are really going wrong. Nyquist will be there at the playoffs for sure and we have the best possible team on the ice when it matters most.

I have always understood some compromises at regular season hockey, but at playoff time, everything should be perfect. And it will be.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Any bit of salary retention ruins plan Nyquist for a little longer, and that sucks.

Cannot say I am totally surprised other GMs know we are up against it, why help?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Yeah, and it's not killing our success yet, isn't it? We are not anykind of mess like some Flyers and Devils have been. Until that changes, we can argue things are really going wrong. Nyquist will be there at the playoffs for sure and we have the best possible team on the ice when it matters most.

I have always understood some compromises at regular season hockey, but at playoff time, everything should be perfect. And it will be.

no we are not bottom fedder fodder thats correct

but thats not an acceptable goal or fall back plan

and i wouldnt be so sure Nyquist will for sure be with us come playoff time

their is zero reason to not make the moves now to allow him to play nor think that in 4 months time we will for sure make ALL the moves necessary to assure he is in our lineup

 

[TKB]

Still the thing what is causing this were those Sammy's threats to argue about the possible buyout because he'll had an injury. If they would have bought Sammy out, there won't be any forward logjam or cap-problems.

If Sammy would have been bought out, no one would whine that much about Cleary signing, because blocked Nyquist down etc. At least, on this day when Tootoo is waived, it would have been recall day for Gus. But at current situation, we have waive another body before that happens.

I understand the logic, Holland thought that the team is overall better, when hitting at the playoffs, if Cleary is playing instead of Sammy. Cleary maybe kills the offense, but he helps the PK and is more useful tool than Sammy. Because Helm-situation was still unsecure, Cleary-extension was some kind of reasonable logic. Now, Helm is healthy, things turned better than the worst-case scenario (Helm never returns), and we have too many bodies to fit that one kid in.

Mostly those contracts that block Nyquist down were done at summer 2012, not this summer. It looks easy to blaim Cleary-contract, because that happened the latest and looked unnecessary on that moment. But Cleary is better player than the worst dead weight in our team. That makes us better, and Dany-boy with that 1.75M isn't the worst deal possible if you think it in big picture.

I'm just trying to say, people who are bashing Cleary all the time are barking the wrong tree. The main scapegoat should be Sammy and his refusal for the buyout.

At this point wouldn't KH be able (or at least very close) to bring Nyquist up if Eaves is also buried?

I don't know how to do the in season calulation with the LTIR relief, but it seems like we should be about there.

 

[InjuredChoker]

no regular pker has allowed as many shots on pk as dan cleary the past two years. let's not act like he is very good at it. or even good. he hasn't been scored as much as many but that's more about luck as he has great on-ice sv% on pk, over 94% this year. and that has little to nothing to do with ability.

and sign boyes instead of sammy and none of this is a problem. or sign someone who can actually pk an babcock wants to play instead of tootoo.

Yeah, and it's not killing our success yet, isn't it? We are not anykind of mess like some Flyers and Devils have been. Until that changes, we can argue things are really going wrong. Nyquist will be there at the playoffs for sure and we have the best possible team on the ice when it matters most.

sammy and quincey deal prevent major deadline additions. so it won't be the best possible team.

i'll give him credit if he manages to pull it off.

I have always understood some compromises at regular season hockey, but at playoff time, everything should be perfect. And it will be.

i'll be waiting for excuses next april.

 

[SoupNazi]

sammy and quincey deal prevent major deadline additions. so it won't be the best possible team.

Who out there do you think will be available and could realistically be had at the deadline, given Holland's aversion to trades?

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Only mistake he has done, is signing Sammy for 2-years. !-year deal would have cleared all problems.

But he couldn't predict Alfredsson is available at 2013 at the summer of 2012. If Alfie would have stayed at Ottawa as was expected and Iginla still chooses Boston, we wouldn't have this mess but would have a weaker team. Things he did at 2012 are causing the problems, but you couldn't predict our becoming acts at 2013 a year before. Nobody has that kind of Crystal ball.

That's what people won't understand in here.

Only mistake? LMAO.

 

[JPE123]

Sammy was a mistake no doubt. I was never a fan of his but hindsight is always 20/20 so I am actually cutting KH a little slack on him. He did have some history of producing. But Quincey and signing Cleary when he was gone are just bad moves. Made no sense and weakened the team. There was no downside to letting either go

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Sammy was a mistake no doubt. I was never a fan of his but hindsight is always 20/20 so I am actually cutting KH a little slack on him. He did have some history of producing. But Quincey and signing Cleary when he was gone are just bad moves. Made no sense and weakened the team. There was no downside to letting either go

There is no hindsight when it comes to Sammy. It was viewed as a garbage signing months before it actually happened.

Let's not try to rewrite history.

It was a typical Ken Holland signing.

You know who else had a history of producing? Muhammad Ali. Let's have him fight Floyd Mayweather.