Waived: Jordin Tootoo

[SoupNazi]

Tootoo has played in eight games this season and played 42 last year. Why do people insist Babcock doesn't want to play him?

 

[InjuredChoker]

Who out there do you think will be available and could realistically be had at the deadline, given Holland's aversion to trades?

assuming standings remain relatively same:

mark fayne from devils.

robidas from dallas.

stempniak from calgary.

setoguchi from winnipeg.

boyes from florida.

not really cap space for much bigger and some of those would be hard to pull off bc of lack of cap space.

 

[InjuredChoker]

There is no hindsight when it comes to Sammy. It was viewed as a garbage signing months before it actually happened.

Let's not try to rewrite history.

It was a typical Ken Holland signing.

You know who else had a history of producing? Muhammad Ali. Let's have him fight Floyd Mayweather.

i absolutely lost it at that.

Tootoo has played in eight games this season and played 42 last year. Why do people insist Babcock doesn't want to play him?

didn't play him at playoffs. lowest avg/toi. though some can be explained that he is sitting at press box from fighting.

 

[bababooeyII]

Only mistake he has done, is signing Sammy for 2-years. !-year deal would have cleared all problems.

But he couldn't predict Alfredsson is available at 2013 at the summer of 2012. If Alfie would have stayed at Ottawa as was expected and Iginla still chooses Boston, we wouldn't have this mess but would have a weaker team. Things he did at 2012 are causing the problems, but you couldn't predict our becoming acts at 2013 a year before. Nobody has that kind of Crystal ball.

That's what people won't understand in here.

Riiiight, only mistake.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Sammy was a mistake no doubt. I was never a fan of his but hindsight is always 20/20 so I am actually cutting KH a little slack on him. He did have some history of producing. But Quincey and signing Cleary when he was gone are just bad moves. Made no sense and weakened the team. There was no downside to letting either go

thats not true, countless people said it was a terrible signing from minute one and ahve held accord to that ever since

 

[PullHard]

Trade deadline of '11/'12 season -> start of '12/'13 season was a really rough management period of Ken Holland's career.

 

[Chance on Chance]

Sammy was a mistake no doubt. I was never a fan of his but hindsight is always 20/20 so I am actually cutting KH a little slack on him. He did have some history of producing. But Quincey and signing Cleary when he was gone are just bad moves. Made no sense and weakened the team. There was no downside to letting either go

Sign him for 1 year then, why make it 2 with a NTC

 

[InjuredChoker]

Trade deadline of '11/'12 season -> start of '12/'13 season was a really rough management period of Ken Holland's career.

hopefully he learned a lesson.

 

[BinCookin]

Still the thing what is causing this were those Sammy's threats to argue about the possible buyout because he'll had an injury. If they would have bought Sammy out, there won't be any forward logjam or cap-problems.

If Sammy would have been bought out, no one would whine that much about Cleary signing, because blocked Nyquist down etc. At least, on this day when Tootoo is waived, it would have been recall day for Gus. But at current situation, we have waive another body before that happens.

I understand the logic, Holland thought that the team is overall better, when hitting at the playoffs, if Cleary is playing instead of Sammy. Cleary maybe kills the offense, but he helps the PK and is more useful tool than Sammy. Because Helm-situation was still unsecure, Cleary-extension was some kind of reasonable logic. Now, Helm is healthy, things turned better than the worst-case scenario (Helm never returns), and we have too many bodies to fit that one kid in.

Mostly those contracts that block Nyquist down were done at summer 2012, not this summer. It looks easy to blaim Cleary-contract, because that happened the latest and looked unnecessary on that moment. But Cleary is better player than the worst dead weight in our team. That makes us better, and Dany-boy with that 1.75M isn't the worst deal possible if you think it in big picture.

I'm just trying to say, people who are bashing Cleary all the time are barking the wrong tree. The main scapegoat should be Sammy and his refusal for the buyout.

I like most of you would like a certain roster in my "dream line up". Some of you like certain players, some of you don't..

I am going to play Devil's Advocate here.

During this off season we needed to make some choices with Filppula and maybe signing a replacement for filppula. I believe Holland had a price range in mind for FLIP, and FLIP went past it. Thus the signing of Weiss. Agree or Disagree, is would say 60% of HFBoards was for this decision at the time. A surprise occurrence at the trade deadline occurred allowing us an opportunity to sign Daniel Alfredsson. Alfie is a monster of a player, OLD, but still a monster. Agree or Disagree K.H. decided that if Alfie wanted to play for the DRW, we would "overturn" our current plans to sign him. So part of the Cap issues are the result of signing Alfie. But this was a choice KH knew would result in other players EVENTUALLY possibly losing their positions with the team.

Miller was given a good contract, fair price, fairly long term (for a 4th liner). Other Bottom 6 Forwards signed to longer contracts include Darren Helm and Jordin Tootoo. Players in the last year of their contracts included Sammy, Eaves, Emmerton (RFA), Bertuzzi, Tatar (RFA).

This situation put us right up against the CAP.

Daniel Cleary wanted a longer term deal, and KH said no. Brunner also was told no due to lack of faith we had in his long term value to the DRW. Cleary explored his options and came back to KH generally hat in hand. "Please let me keep playing for our team, I will take a pay cut." KH is moved and loyalty to the player combined with the knowledge that Helm is still on LTIR allows Cleary to just barely make it in under the cap.

When this move was made… HFBoards went nuts. Realizing that KH is doing something strange. He has signed way too many forwards already, and now added one more. KH is a patient man. We see Nyquist as "dying" in the AHL, while KH sees this as an opportunity to TEST his assets. In a very brutal way. All the players know, IF Helm gets healthy, there will be cuts. And some players will go. This is basically what we have come down to now. 16 Games into the season has really allowed MB and KH to determine which players are the most useful to the team. With this much "depth" in choices, we really do get a chance to really see which players the DRW really want, because cuts are coming. Helm injuries extend the cut day. Ericsson injury extends the cut day. Any additional injuries will extend the cut day, and KH is ok with this due to the strong DEPTH he has on the team.

LTIR has only extended this tryout period. KH remember is patient. He is ok if this takes half the season to work its way through. I truly believe he has ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION of losing or wasting his assets in Tatar or Nyquist by trading them for anything other than a significant star coming back to the DRW. Thus Nyquist will be a DRW. Or he will be used to acquire someone that will make us forget all about him. But KH is totally ok with bringing in Nyquist half way through this season, or maybe the start of next season. Injuries always happen. Especially on an older team in Detroit. KH knows this, and last 2 years has had trouble with injuries. There is part of me that thinks part of these decisions are the result of "well if we run into serious injuries again… we will be safe with all our extra forwards". Well the team has been healthy (for the most part) and now the trial period is coming to an end. YES an injury would change that.

Emmerton was selected at the beginning of the season to lose his job for Cleary.
Now that Helm is Back Tootoo has found himself on the way out due to his high salary and low playing time.
Math around the salary cap is also a determining factor over whether Tootoo, or Eaves, or Sammy or Cleary are chosen to be cut from the team.
KH believes on the roster the most likely cuts were: Tootoo, Eaves, Sammy due to their being benched. Say what you will about Cleary, but he has played in every game, and Detroit is high in the standings. KH definitely does not like Cleary's production thus far, and it is lowering his stock game by game. This is good for us HFBoardies hoping for his demise. But remember, KH is a patient guy, he builds his team patiently, and he will cut players patiently.

Here is an interesting Cavaet of this entire situation and possibly a silver lining.

We had no cap space to start the year (roughly Zero)

So we can do the math like this:

Helm returns: Cap Payroll + 2.125Million
We now need to find savings worth roughly 1.8-2Million (Lets assume each days constant calculations have increased our cap room)

Tootoo being waived and claimed would have saved us 1.9Million. It is very possible our salary cap problems go away if Tootoo was claimed, and no more roster moves were required.

Tootoo has now cleared waivers. This means if we simply send him down to GR, loan him to another AHL team etc… we will save only 925K leaving 975K on the Salary cap.

2.125M - 0.925 = 1.2 Million.

We are still over the cap by 1.2Million (Again assuming daily calculations have saved us more room.. lets say we need another 1Million.

KH tried to drop the full Cap amount. Sadly for a 2nd roster player, this will not alleviate the cap issues. KH will now do himself a favour and approach NHL teams attempting to retain LESS than 925K in salary cap. This means a team will have the opportunity to trade for Tootoo for the cost of 925K-1.9Million. Any Salary they agree to pay above 975K, will result in additional cap savings for the DRW that would not be found by simply waiving Tootoo. This might occur with a salary of 1.1-1.2Million. (Would Detroit have to retain salary for more than this year? - that may be a sticking point)
As a favour to the Tootoo KH would retain 975K in salary thus allowing Tootoo to move to a new team, Detroit would be stuck with 925K either way. One of these 3 things will thus happen:

Tootoo is traded with retained salary between 0-975K (Favor done by another team for KH)
Tootoo is traded with retained salary exactly 975K (Favor done for Tootoo, so he can play Hockey in the NHL)
Tootoo is assigned to another AHL organization (or similar result) - and we can erase 9.25K from our Salary Cap

Now lets get back to the fact 1.2Million still needs to be cut from the books.
It should also be noted the Roster size is now 23 players (minus Tootoo).

Eaves makes 1.2 Million, so if he is waived. This will likely solve the Cap issues… BUT we then are down to 22 Men. If someone like Nyquist is called back up.. 950K would come back on the books.

This is a dilemma. Waiving Eaves and Bringing up Nyquist actually only saves us Zero dollars if no one claims Eaves or roughly only 250K to replace him with Nyquist. Even if we used a league minimum salary player. We only save about 700K. MAYBE with daily calculations we can still be under the cap. MAYBE.

The silver lining might be. "Cleary". He has been played for all his games. He has not shown much.
Waiving Danny Cleary will save 925K and allow someone like say Nyquist to be called up. This keeps Eaves and switches Cleary with Nyquist on the roster.

Just under salary cap, and still with a 23 man roster, 14 forwards, 7 D, 2G.

It is very possible that Waiving eaves will NOT fix our cap issues. We might need to move MORE salary than even Miller (similar salary to eaves). This leaves only a few players:

1) Cleary.
2) Sammy.
3) Abdelkader
4) Bertuzzi

3 and 4 are clearly staying on the team. The rest of the players are also cleary staying on the team.

KH will now discuss options to trade Sammy and or retain salary with Sammy.

Trading Sammy and retaining under 1.2Million would Allow Cleary and Eaves to keep their jobs.

I believe this is KH's number 1 move. It is very possible that Sammy blocking a Buyout is the only reason these cap issues exist. We will not know, because things like this are not mentioned to the media in "classy" NHL locations. This may very well have been a big wrench in KH side.

So is sammy worth it at 1.8 Million? There may be takers.
If sammy cannot be traded (DAMN), It is very possible that Cleary will be next.
It is very possible that Cleary knows this, and has discussed it with KH already. This may have been part of the deal with KH said "Hey man we don't REALLY have room for you, but there are 2 roster spots open for 4 players, and according to our math 1.75 is the most we can pay you. Are you ok coming back for 20 games and proving you deserve to be here before being put in this horse race?" I honestly don't know if waiving Eaves buys us enough cap space to fit under the cap. because we need to bring up another player in his stead. It is possible that this ONLY works, if we are 20-25 games into the season, and thus possibly why KH is dragging his feet making the cuts. It is also possible that Tootoo needed to be let go early, in order to build up extra cap space in the time between now, and the next roster player to be cut.

In either case, Tatar and Nyquist are not on KH's mind.. not yet. They are DRW players. KH i believe is shopping Sammy and if he is screwed and can't move him, Eaves or Cleary will be on the way out.
Lets hope Math helps us out… and makes Cleary the man out!

 

[ashenhigh]

Trade deadline of '11/'12 season -> start of '12/'13 season was a really rough management period of Ken Holland's career.

2009 offseason was the most brutal.

How do you replace Hossa, Hudler, Sammy? With Jason Williams!

 

[Boomhower]

assuming standings remain relatively same:

mark fayne from devils.

robidas from dallas.

stempniak from calgary.

setoguchi from winnipeg.

boyes from florida.

not really cap space for much bigger and some of those would be hard to pull off bc of lack of cap space.

Robidas would be an amazing pickup. All the others on that list.... yuck.

This is rough, knew he wouldn't get claimed, but still a tough blow now that its official.

 

[InjuredChoker]

2009 offseason was the most brutal.

How do you replace Hossa, Hudler, Sammy? With Jason Williams!

hey! he brought eaves too!

and picked up miller from waivers!

 

[InjuredChoker]

Robidas would be an amazing pickup. All the others on that list.... yuck.

This is rough, knew he wouldn't get claimed, but still a tough blow now that its official.

i'm not saying they would be great pickups, depending on price.

but with limited cap space and assuming those teams are out of it, not much options.

 

[SoupNazi]

hey! he brought eaves too!

and picked up miller from waivers!

Miller was picked up during the season.

 

[detredWINgs]

Robidas would be an amazing pickup. All the others on that list.... yuck.

This is rough, knew he wouldn't get claimed, but still a tough blow now that its official.

What?

Fayne is playing great hockey right now for what he is.

Boyes is playing solid hockey in Florida to follow up his solid season on the Island. Sure he's had consistency and maturity problems, but so did Dan Cleary at one point. He's a righty with a good shot who has something to prove and cheap at that.

Seto is also having a decent season, has good wheels, some tenacity, and is also a righty with a good shot.

And Stempniak is a dream player for the playoffs. Not to mention he's picked up right where he left off last season with his offensive production.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

I like most of you would like a certain roster in my "dream line up". Some of you like certain players, some of you don't..

I am going to play Devil's Advocate here.

During this off season we needed to make some choices with Filppula and maybe signing a replacement for filppula. I believe Holland had a price range in mind for FLIP, and FLIP went past it. Thus the signing of Weiss. Agree or Disagree, is would say 60% of HFBoards was for this decision at the time. A surprise occurrence at the trade deadline occurred allowing us an opportunity to sign Daniel Alfredsson. Alfie is a monster of a player, OLD, but still a monster. Agree or Disagree K.H. decided that if Alfie wanted to play for the DRW, we would "overturn" our current plans to sign him. So part of the Cap issues are the result of signing Alfie. But this was a choice KH knew would result in other players EVENTUALLY possibly losing their positions with the team.

Miller was given a good contract, fair price, fairly long term (for a 4th liner). Other Bottom 6 Forwards signed to longer contracts include Darren Helm and Jordin Tootoo. Players in the last year of their contracts included Sammy, Eaves, Emmerton (RFA), Bertuzzi, Tatar (RFA).

This situation put us right up against the CAP.

Daniel Cleary wanted a longer term deal, and KH said no. Brunner also was told no due to lack of faith we had in his long term value to the DRW. Cleary explored his options and came back to KH generally hat in hand. "Please let me keep playing for our team, I will take a pay cut." KH is moved and loyalty to the player combined with the knowledge that Helm is still on LTIR allows Cleary to just barely make it in under the cap.

When this move was made… HFBoards went nuts. Realizing that KH is doing something strange. He has signed way too many forwards already, and now added one more. KH is a patient man. We see Nyquist as "dying" in the AHL, while KH sees this as an opportunity to TEST his assets. In a very brutal way. All the players know, IF Helm gets healthy, there will be cuts. And some players will go. This is basically what we have come down to now. 16 Games into the season has really allowed MB and KH to determine which players are the most useful to the team. With this much "depth" in choices, we really do get a chance to really see which players the DRW really want, because cuts are coming. Helm injuries extend the cut day. Ericsson injury extends the cut day. Any additional injuries will extend the cut day, and KH is ok with this due to the strong DEPTH he has on the team.

LTIR has only extended this tryout period. KH remember is patient. He is ok if this takes half the season to work its way through. I truly believe he has ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION of losing or wasting his assets in Tatar or Nyquist by trading them for anything other than a significant star coming back to the DRW. Thus Nyquist will be a DRW. Or he will be used to acquire someone that will make us forget all about him. But KH is totally ok with bringing in Nyquist half way through this season, or maybe the start of next season. Injuries always happen. Especially on an older team in Detroit. KH knows this, and last 2 years has had trouble with injuries. There is part of me that thinks part of these decisions are the result of "well if we run into serious injuries again… we will be safe with all our extra forwards". Well the team has been healthy (for the most part) and now the trial period is coming to an end. YES an injury would change that.

Emmerton was selected at the beginning of the season to lose his job for Cleary.
Now that Helm is Back Tootoo has found himself on the way out due to his high salary and low playing time.
Math around the salary cap is also a determining factor over whether Tootoo, or Eaves, or Sammy or Cleary are chosen to be cut from the team.
KH believes on the roster the most likely cuts were: Tootoo, Eaves, Sammy due to their being benched. Say what you will about Cleary, but he has played in every game, and Detroit is high in the standings. KH definitely does not like Cleary's production thus far, and it is lowering his stock game by game. This is good for us HFBoardies hoping for his demise. But remember, KH is a patient guy, he builds his team patiently, and he will cut players patiently.

Here is an interesting Cavaet of this entire situation and possibly a silver lining.

We had no cap space to start the year (roughly Zero)

So we can do the math like this:

Helm returns: Cap Payroll + 2.125Million
We now need to find savings worth roughly 1.8-2Million (Lets assume each days constant calculations have increased our cap room)

Tootoo being waived and claimed would have saved us 1.9Million. It is very possible our salary cap problems go away if Tootoo was claimed, and no more roster moves were required.

Tootoo has now cleared waivers. This means if we simply send him down to GR, loan him to another AHL team etc… we will save only 925K leaving 975K on the Salary cap.

2.125M - 0.925 = 1.2 Million.

We are still over the cap by 1.2Million (Again assuming daily calculations have saved us more room.. lets say we need another 1Million.

KH tried to drop the full Cap amount. Sadly for a 2nd roster player, this will not alleviate the cap issues. KH will now do himself a favour and approach NHL teams attempting to retain LESS than 925K in salary cap. This means a team will have the opportunity to trade for Tootoo for the cost of 925K-1.9Million. Any Salary they agree to pay above 975K, will result in additional cap savings for the DRW that would not be found by simply waiving Tootoo. This might occur with a salary of 1.1-1.2Million. (Would Detroit have to retain salary for more than this year? - that may be a sticking point)
As a favour to the Tootoo KH would retain 975K in salary thus allowing Tootoo to move to a new team, Detroit would be stuck with 925K either way. One of these 3 things will thus happen:

Tootoo is traded with retained salary between 0-975K (Favor done by another team for KH)
Tootoo is traded with retained salary exactly 975K (Favor done for Tootoo, so he can play Hockey in the NHL)
Tootoo is assigned to another AHL organization (or similar result) - and we can erase 9.25K from our Salary Cap

Now lets get back to the fact 1.2Million still needs to be cut from the books.
It should also be noted the Roster size is now 23 players (minus Tootoo).

Eaves makes 1.2 Million, so if he is waived. This will likely solve the Cap issues… BUT we then are down to 22 Men. If someone like Nyquist is called back up.. 950K would come back on the books.

This is a dilemma. Waiving Eaves and Bringing up Nyquist actually only saves us Zero dollars if no one claims Eaves or roughly only 250K to replace him with Nyquist. Even if we used a league minimum salary player. We only save about 700K. MAYBE with daily calculations we can still be under the cap. MAYBE.

The silver lining might be. "Cleary". He has been played for all his games. He has not shown much.
Waiving Danny Cleary will save 925K and allow someone like say Nyquist to be called up. This keeps Eaves and switches Cleary with Nyquist on the roster.

Just under salary cap, and still with a 23 man roster, 14 forwards, 7 D, 2G.

It is very possible that Waiving eaves will NOT fix our cap issues. We might need to move MORE salary than even Miller (similar salary to eaves). This leaves only a few players:

1) Cleary.
2) Sammy.
3) Abdelkader
4) Bertuzzi

3 and 4 are clearly staying on the team. The rest of the players are also cleary staying on the team.

KH will now discuss options to trade Sammy and or retain salary with Sammy.

Trading Sammy and retaining under 1.2Million would Allow Cleary and Eaves to keep their jobs.

I believe this is KH's number 1 move. It is very possible that Sammy blocking a Buyout is the only reason these cap issues exist. We will not know, because things like this are not mentioned to the media in "classy" NHL locations. This may very well have been a big wrench in KH side.

So is sammy worth it at 1.8 Million? There may be takers.
If sammy cannot be traded (DAMN), It is very possible that Cleary will be next.
It is very possible that Cleary knows this, and has discussed it with KH already. This may have been part of the deal with KH said "Hey man we don't REALLY have room for you, but there are 2 roster spots open for 4 players, and according to our math 1.75 is the most we can pay you. Are you ok coming back for 20 games and proving you deserve to be here before being put in this horse race?" I honestly don't know if waiving Eaves buys us enough cap space to fit under the cap. because we need to bring up another player in his stead. It is possible that this ONLY works, if we are 20-25 games into the season, and thus possibly why KH is dragging his feet making the cuts. It is also possible that Tootoo needed to be let go early, in order to build up extra cap space in the time between now, and the next roster player to be cut.

In either case, Tatar and Nyquist are not on KH's mind.. not yet. They are DRW players. KH i believe is shopping Sammy and if he is screwed and can't move him, Eaves or Cleary will be on the way out.
Lets hope Math helps us out… and makes Cleary the man out!

Brilliant analysis, let's hope this is what is happening!

 

[Winger98]

Forgot Boyle. But I think the Sharks will strongly try to extend him like Rangers will extend Girardi.

Hopefully he will remember and feel it at his old bones, how much easier it was with travel at east (@Tampa) and considers Wings.

I think the Sharks will extend him, too, but I've always been a fan of the guy.

i think sproul needs at least two years in the minors. teach him what we in't teach smith/are now teaching at nhl.

I don't know. Sproul's big, and despite all of the defensive concerns, he's putting up points and is a net positive on the ice. He's also a right handed shot. It wouldn't surprise me if any of the D in grand rapids got promoted sooner than we expect.

 

[crashman]

I wish you guys hadn't brought up Girardi being a UFA, now I'm going to dream of the Wings signing him until the Rangers eventually extend him.

He would be a great player for the Wings to add.

 

[Yzerman1919*]

I like most of you would like a certain roster in my "dream line up". Some of you like certain players, some of you don't..

I am going to play Devil's Advocate here.

During this off season we needed to make some choices with Filppula and maybe signing a replacement for filppula. I believe Holland had a price range in mind for FLIP, and FLIP went past it. Thus the signing of Weiss. Agree or Disagree, is would say 60% of HFBoards was for this decision at the time. A surprise occurrence at the trade deadline occurred allowing us an opportunity to sign Daniel Alfredsson. Alfie is a monster of a player, OLD, but still a monster. Agree or Disagree K.H. decided that if Alfie wanted to play for the DRW, we would "overturn" our current plans to sign him. So part of the Cap issues are the result of signing Alfie. But this was a choice KH knew would result in other players EVENTUALLY possibly losing their positions with the team.

Miller was given a good contract, fair price, fairly long term (for a 4th liner). Other Bottom 6 Forwards signed to longer contracts include Darren Helm and Jordin Tootoo. Players in the last year of their contracts included Sammy, Eaves, Emmerton (RFA), Bertuzzi, Tatar (RFA).

This situation put us right up against the CAP.

Daniel Cleary wanted a longer term deal, and KH said no. Brunner also was told no due to lack of faith we had in his long term value to the DRW. Cleary explored his options and came back to KH generally hat in hand. "Please let me keep playing for our team, I will take a pay cut." KH is moved and loyalty to the player combined with the knowledge that Helm is still on LTIR allows Cleary to just barely make it in under the cap.

When this move was made… HFBoards went nuts. Realizing that KH is doing something strange. He has signed way too many forwards already, and now added one more. KH is a patient man. We see Nyquist as "dying" in the AHL, while KH sees this as an opportunity to TEST his assets. In a very brutal way. All the players know, IF Helm gets healthy, there will be cuts. And some players will go. This is basically what we have come down to now. 16 Games into the season has really allowed MB and KH to determine which players are the most useful to the team. With this much "depth" in choices, we really do get a chance to really see which players the DRW really want, because cuts are coming. Helm injuries extend the cut day. Ericsson injury extends the cut day. Any additional injuries will extend the cut day, and KH is ok with this due to the strong DEPTH he has on the team.

LTIR has only extended this tryout period. KH remember is patient. He is ok if this takes half the season to work its way through. I truly believe he has ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION of losing or wasting his assets in Tatar or Nyquist by trading them for anything other than a significant star coming back to the DRW. Thus Nyquist will be a DRW. Or he will be used to acquire someone that will make us forget all about him. But KH is totally ok with bringing in Nyquist half way through this season, or maybe the start of next season. Injuries always happen. Especially on an older team in Detroit. KH knows this, and last 2 years has had trouble with injuries. There is part of me that thinks part of these decisions are the result of "well if we run into serious injuries again… we will be safe with all our extra forwards". Well the team has been healthy (for the most part) and now the trial period is coming to an end. YES an injury would change that.

Emmerton was selected at the beginning of the season to lose his job for Cleary.
Now that Helm is Back Tootoo has found himself on the way out due to his high salary and low playing time.
Math around the salary cap is also a determining factor over whether Tootoo, or Eaves, or Sammy or Cleary are chosen to be cut from the team.
KH believes on the roster the most likely cuts were: Tootoo, Eaves, Sammy due to their being benched. Say what you will about Cleary, but he has played in every game, and Detroit is high in the standings. KH definitely does not like Cleary's production thus far, and it is lowering his stock game by game. This is good for us HFBoardies hoping for his demise. But remember, KH is a patient guy, he builds his team patiently, and he will cut players patiently.

Here is an interesting Cavaet of this entire situation and possibly a silver lining.

We had no cap space to start the year (roughly Zero)

So we can do the math like this:

Helm returns: Cap Payroll + 2.125Million
We now need to find savings worth roughly 1.8-2Million (Lets assume each days constant calculations have increased our cap room)

Tootoo being waived and claimed would have saved us 1.9Million. It is very possible our salary cap problems go away if Tootoo was claimed, and no more roster moves were required.

Tootoo has now cleared waivers. This means if we simply send him down to GR, loan him to another AHL team etc… we will save only 925K leaving 975K on the Salary cap.

2.125M - 0.925 = 1.2 Million.

We are still over the cap by 1.2Million (Again assuming daily calculations have saved us more room.. lets say we need another 1Million.

KH tried to drop the full Cap amount. Sadly for a 2nd roster player, this will not alleviate the cap issues. KH will now do himself a favour and approach NHL teams attempting to retain LESS than 925K in salary cap. This means a team will have the opportunity to trade for Tootoo for the cost of 925K-1.9Million. Any Salary they agree to pay above 975K, will result in additional cap savings for the DRW that would not be found by simply waiving Tootoo. This might occur with a salary of 1.1-1.2Million. (Would Detroit have to retain salary for more than this year? - that may be a sticking point)
As a favour to the Tootoo KH would retain 975K in salary thus allowing Tootoo to move to a new team, Detroit would be stuck with 925K either way. One of these 3 things will thus happen:

Tootoo is traded with retained salary between 0-975K (Favor done by another team for KH)
Tootoo is traded with retained salary exactly 975K (Favor done for Tootoo, so he can play Hockey in the NHL)
Tootoo is assigned to another AHL organization (or similar result) - and we can erase 9.25K from our Salary Cap

Now lets get back to the fact 1.2Million still needs to be cut from the books.
It should also be noted the Roster size is now 23 players (minus Tootoo).

Eaves makes 1.2 Million, so if he is waived. This will likely solve the Cap issues… BUT we then are down to 22 Men. If someone like Nyquist is called back up.. 950K would come back on the books.

This is a dilemma. Waiving Eaves and Bringing up Nyquist actually only saves us Zero dollars if no one claims Eaves or roughly only 250K to replace him with Nyquist. Even if we used a league minimum salary player. We only save about 700K. MAYBE with daily calculations we can still be under the cap. MAYBE.

The silver lining might be. "Cleary". He has been played for all his games. He has not shown much.
Waiving Danny Cleary will save 925K and allow someone like say Nyquist to be called up. This keeps Eaves and switches Cleary with Nyquist on the roster.

Just under salary cap, and still with a 23 man roster, 14 forwards, 7 D, 2G.

It is very possible that Waiving eaves will NOT fix our cap issues. We might need to move MORE salary than even Miller (similar salary to eaves). This leaves only a few players:

1) Cleary.
2) Sammy.
3) Abdelkader
4) Bertuzzi

3 and 4 are clearly staying on the team. The rest of the players are also cleary staying on the team.

KH will now discuss options to trade Sammy and or retain salary with Sammy.

Trading Sammy and retaining under 1.2Million would Allow Cleary and Eaves to keep their jobs.

I believe this is KH's number 1 move. It is very possible that Sammy blocking a Buyout is the only reason these cap issues exist. We will not know, because things like this are not mentioned to the media in "classy" NHL locations. This may very well have been a big wrench in KH side.

So is sammy worth it at 1.8 Million? There may be takers.
If sammy cannot be traded (DAMN), It is very possible that Cleary will be next.
It is very possible that Cleary knows this, and has discussed it with KH already. This may have been part of the deal with KH said "Hey man we don't REALLY have room for you, but there are 2 roster spots open for 4 players, and according to our math 1.75 is the most we can pay you. Are you ok coming back for 20 games and proving you deserve to be here before being put in this horse race?" I honestly don't know if waiving Eaves buys us enough cap space to fit under the cap. because we need to bring up another player in his stead. It is possible that this ONLY works, if we are 20-25 games into the season, and thus possibly why KH is dragging his feet making the cuts. It is also possible that Tootoo needed to be let go early, in order to build up extra cap space in the time between now, and the next roster player to be cut.

In either case, Tatar and Nyquist are not on KH's mind.. not yet. They are DRW players. KH i believe is shopping Sammy and if he is screwed and can't move him, Eaves or Cleary will be on the way out.
Lets hope Math helps us out… and makes Cleary the man out!

I appreciate the analyzing and trying to be optimistic for this forum. But I have to 110% disagree with everything in here. Being a GM you are supposed to put the best team on the ice to win, period.

Ken Holland (and Babcock) have a thing about old veterans, and especially people who have worn the sweater before. They feel they "deserve more" even if they are inferior players, because they paid their dues. While there is a certain extent of loyalty, this is just WAY too overboard. Signing Cleary again was an absolute joke, and it wasn't like he would have been out of a job. Sammy with a NTC, my god. Kyle Quincey for a first round pick?

Loyalty is powerful, but that is a joke. His job is to put the best team out there possible. Having Nyquist and Tatar is a great starting point. XO right now looks fine to me too. That makes our team better. You get more line combinations, speed, and youth. There is absolutely NO EXCUSE. Tatar, Nyquist, XO for Cleary, Sammy, Quincey would make us a better team, would it not?

BUT in Holland's mind, we will go make a bunch of signings for loyalty, and put a lesser product on the ice for a while. We can fiddle with the LTIR and cap room for these bums because they "deserve it." Its bullsh**. Now guys like Z and D have to carry the team at their age and let these other morons screw it up. I feel terrible for them.

 

[PullHard]

2009 offseason was the most brutal.

How do you replace Hossa, Hudler, Sammy? With Jason Williams!

I have to disagree. Hossa was nothing more than a luxury for this team. Lidstrom had been the focal point of it for a long, long time. Nothing was done to prepare for his departure and our only option was to swing and miss on Suter. Oh, aside from trading the 19th overall pick in that summer's draft for Kyle Quincey.

 

[Winger98]

I have to disagree. Hossa was nothing more than a luxury for this team. Lidstrom had been the focal point of it for a long, long time. Nothing was done to prepare for his departure and our only option was to swing and miss on Suter. Oh, aside from trading the 19th overall pick in that summer's draft for Kyle Quincey.

We also managed to still be up tight against the cap that summer. The room to move and build that team for the following year was close to nil.

 

[SoupNazi]

I have to disagree. Hossa was nothing more than a luxury for this team. Lidstrom had been the focal point of it for a long, long time. Nothing was done to prepare for his departure and our only option was to swing and miss on Suter. Oh, aside from trading the 19th overall pick in that summer's draft for Kyle Quincey.

Agreed. Hossa, while a nice piece, was not the integral part of this team for years that Lidstrom was. Losing Hossa was a blow this team could recover from; losing Lids was not. Frankly, I don't think any team can easily recover from losing a Lidstrom.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

GM's and teams do have options besides tanking for stamkos, tavares, hall, etc
-trading up in the draft(karlsson was picked 17th or maybe it was 15th)
-trading for a players rights
-trading for a player
-offer sheeting as many good young dman it takes untill you score one

Holland chose to not be proactive, he had to know lidstroms time would end because I sure as heck did simply by looking at his birth year

Holland chose to put all his eggs in one basket and that was Suter which wa sa terrible mistake as you cant predict free agency(no suter but hello alffie??)

Holland chose to keep Franzen over Hossa and that was a terrible mistake as Hossa is still good and Franzen is now not

Too many recent mistakes have tarnished his image, give me bryan murray right now anyday of the week

 

[Henkka]

Oh, Hossa-thread again?

Summer of 2009 was the summer when our biggest contract extensions and payraises (Zetts got +3.5M raise and Mule got 3.0M raise) kicked in.

Our own contract extensions because of former success in two final runs cost same amount than Marian Hossa cost during the 2008-09.

At same time, the Salary Cap did rise only by 100k because of the economy crisis in the world. It was an unfortunate situation, our success against that timing of the crisis at same time. If the cap would have rised ~4-5 million, like the pace was from previous seasons, we could have easily kept Hossa.

So there was no room any kind of better moves, than try Leino or sign Bertuzzi etc.

Basicly it was:

Hossa cap space --> Zeta+Mule contract extensions
Hudler bolted for KHL millions --> Ville Leino was brought in full-time (cheaper than 1.0M Hudler at previous season)
Samuelsson bolted for money (Vancouver) --> Jason Williams was signed for 1.5M
Kopecky bolted to Chicago with his f-buddy Hossa --> Todd Bertuzzi was signed for 1.5M
Lilja was long-term injured --> Ericsson was brought in full-time (already happened from march 2009)
Abdelkader was promoted in full-time.

So, nobody replaced Hossa straight on, but all Hossa-situation was a salary cap bubble on that 2008-09 season. We had so cheap contracts with Zetterberg (2.65) and Mule (900k), that we could add that piece in. When Zeta and Mule got market value contracts after that season, that bubble and Hossa was gone. We hit reality with our caphits that are always gonna go high IF YOU HAVE SUCCESS. Every team will face same internal caphit problems after success. That why dynasties won't happen in cap-era anymore.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Oh, Hossa-thread again?

Summer of 2009 was the summer when our biggest contract extensions and payraises (Zetts got +3.5M raise and Mule got 3.0M raise) kicked in.

Our own contract extensions because of former success in two final runs cost same amount than Marian Hossa cost during the 2008-09.

At same time, the Salary Cap did rise only by 100k because of the economy crisis in the world.

So there was no room any kind of better moves, than try Leino or sign Bertuzzi etc.

Basicly it was:

Hossa cap space --> Zeta+Mule contract extensions
Hudler bolted for KHL millions --> Ville Leino was brought in as a free agent (cheaper than 1.0M Hudler at previous season)
Samuelsson bolted for money (Vancouver) --> Jason Williams was signed for 1.5M
Kopecy bolted to Chicago with his f-buddy Hossa --> Todd Bertuzzi was signed for 1.5M
Lilja was long-term injured --> Ericsson was brought in full-time (already happened from march 2009)
Abndelkader was promoted in full-time

So, nobody replaced Hossa, but all Hossa-situation was a salary cap bubble on that 2008-09. We has so cheap contracts with Zetterberg and Mule, that we could add that piece in. When Zeta and Mule got market value contracts after that season, that bubble and Hossa was gone. We hit reality with our caphits that are always gonna go high IF YOU HAVE SUCCESS. Every team will face same internal caphit problems after success. That why dynasties won't happen in cap-era anymore.

i didnt know moving out contracts/players to make room for better players was illegal

proper talent evaluation and foresight allows for such critical thinking, do not ever make the mistake any GM in any sport ever actually has their hands tied, thats why you have GM's