Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin II

[JeffreyLFC]

Sergachev is not flawless. He had one significant weakness that was pretty obvious when he was our top prospect. And it's very hard to fix it. He is poor in his zone. He has the size but he barely use it and he puck watch too much. He also seem to lack intensity and commitment. That being said offensively he is amazing. Big shot, incredible edge work, amazing hands and good vision.

 

[Frank Drebin]

From the Tampa blogger:
Finally, Mikhail Sergachev has had a putrid start. He has been a turnover machine, and unable to create offense. He is very young, but he has been reliably creating scoring chances for his opponents. One wonders if a healthy scratch is coming in the not too distant future.

I am sure Sergachev will get things straight soon enough,but the trade is not as lopsided as some suggest if Drouin can continue to play inspired hockey.Drouin is one of the most talented players in the NHL but seems to have cognitive issues approaching the game at times and this often atrophies for him.If he can continue to work on this,he will be a star for us for many years.

The trade was always going to take years to determine a winner.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Enough with the language debate. Stay on topic or get out of the thread.

 

[montreal]

Not embarrassing for me, i'm able to understand that playin with a stacked loaded offense like TB sure can help you boosting your offensive stats, and i'm not here to downsize his performance of last year, i think he had a good season and i'm also sure that he wouldnt had the same kind of stats if he was playing with us last year

Ya....would be great but he was the price to pay to get a talented forward like Drouin, you have your opinion on that and i have mine, i think it was worthed, like i said we will have a better idea in 2-3 tears from now

How can you say that.....do you really think that having Sergatchev last year would have change anything, you think that we would have made the playoffs....and do you think that TB without Sergatchev would have been a worst team....dont think so

So a top D prospect that we trade ends up having one of the best seasons any U-20 defensemen has had in the modern era and that's not embarrassing because his team was really good? The mere fact you call it a good season when it was one of the best shows a clear basis.

We traded for a winger that played like shit last year on one of the worst teams in the league, we don't need wingers, we need offensive LD prospects so we traded him and were even willing to throw in a 2nd round pick that lucky for us was on a condition that didn't hit or else that trade looks a lot worse then it already has.

Having Sergachev last year means we wouldn't need a #1 LD prospect. Of course he wouldn't have put up the same #'s, but it would be better for our future to have him vs not having a top LD prospect and more wingers.

Playing a tough position? He started 71% in the ozone behind one of the best offensive teams in the league. Basically as easy minutes as a player has ever gotten in the NHL. DD dreams of minutes that easy.

And yes he outscored all but 4 Habs but 7 lightning players outscored him. Yanni Gourde is a 65 point player on that team so lets be somewhat realistic about what 40 points playing almost every start in the o zone means on a team like that.

I have no idea how the trade will play out - I think TB likely wins this one - but Serge last year had almost un precedented soft minutes. Until he plays 24 mins a game all situations He isn’t a top pair d man.

He was still playing defense in the NHL at 19, no matter how much they shelter you, that's still a tough task for anyone and yet he had one of the best seasons any defensemen has had U-20 in the NHL.

I have many friends and family in Tampa and none of them hold Sergachev in the same light as habs fans lol

Habs fans have this guy as a perennial Norris winner while Bolts fans have yet to pencil him in as a top 4.

Don't recall people calling him a perennial Norris winner, just a poor trade by a GM that shows a lack of vision and plan.

He’s definitely on track but he isn’t one yet. This idea that we’ve already lost the trade is just not factual.

It's clear we lost this trade in year 1, now we'll see in year 2 and beyond. It's simple to me, I look at the trade and say what would happen a year later, so if you think TB takes JD back for Sergachev then we won that trade, if not we lost it.

 

[Peanut]

From the Tampa blogger:
Finally, Mikhail Sergachev has had a putrid start. He has been a turnover machine, and unable to create offense.

You knows it ok to source the blogger right lol

HockeyBuzz.com - Sam Hitchcock - Lightning Lurch Past Hurricanes for Second Straight Win

 

[groovejuice]

So a top D prospect that we trade ends up having one of the best seasons any U-20 defensemen has had in the modern era and that's not embarrassing because his team was really good? The mere fact you call it a good season when it was one of the best shows a clear basis.

We traded for a winger that played like **** last year on one of the worst teams in the league, we don't need wingers, we need offensive LD prospects so we traded him and were even willing to throw in a 2nd round pick that lucky for us was on a condition that didn't hit or else that trade looks a lot worse then it already has.

Having Sergachev last year means we wouldn't need a #1 LD prospect. Of course he wouldn't have put up the same #'s, but it would be better for our future to have him vs not having a top LD prospect and more wingers.



He was still playing defense in the NHL at 19, no matter how much they shelter you, that's still a tough task for anyone and yet he had one of the best seasons any defensemen has had U-20 in the NHL.



Don't recall people calling him a perennial Norris winner, just a poor trade by a GM that shows a lack of vision and plan.



It's clear we lost this trade in year 1, now we'll see in year 2 and beyond. It's simple to me, I look at the trade and say what would happen a year later, so if you think TB takes JD back for Sergachev then we won that trade, if not we lost it.

Very good post. It's hard to deal with arguments based on opinions that Sergachev wouldn't have scored as much in Montreal. Panarin wouldn't have either - that's no argument at all.

There is a deep seated need for some people to support management at all costs. It's not realistic, but it is amusing.

 

[Hfbsux]

Very good post. It's hard to deal with arguments based on opinions that Sergachev wouldn't have scored as much in Montreal. Panarin wouldn't have either - that's no argument at all.

There is a deep seated need for some people to support management at all costs. It's not realistic, but it is amusing.

Sergachev had a very good first 3 months last year. What about the rest of the year? I'm not a hater, but that 2nd half was nothing close from being "one of the best". It was in fact not good at all, and I watched most of Tampa's games. It's funny because I see a lot of people doing whatever they can to bash the management at all cost, and I find it amusing too.

 

[groovejuice]

Sergachev had a very good first 3 months last year. What about the rest of the year? I'm not a hater, but that 2nd half was nothing close from being "one of the best". It was in fact not good at all, and I watched most of Tampa's games. It's funny because I see a lot of people doing whatever they can to bash the management at all cost, and I find it amusing too.

How high should expectations be for a teenager playing big minutes in the NHL? And why in the world would one look for reasons to diminish a very good rookie season by all accounts?

People are likely to exaggerate a bit depending on their affiliations, but some of the comments are ridiculous.

Bergevin's record speaks for itself.

 

[De Montreal]

Name another 19 years old dman that got 40 points recently that ended up not being a top4 dman.

On top of my head, andrej Meszaros had a fantastic 1st season (39 points) and never reach that plateau again in his career. Del Zotto had a great 1st year (37 points) then went on to regress into a bottom pairing dman. Matt Carle had 42 points in his rookie season and then vanished.

Zach Bogosian was a sure bet after his rookie season, now his career might be done. Former 1st round pcik David Tanabe was the next big thing in Carolina after a good first full season and he turned out to be a dud.

I'm not comparing Sergachev to any of those. But yeah, it happen.

 

[Hfbsux]

How high should expectations be for a teenager playing big minutes in the NHL? And why in the world would one look for reasons to diminish a very good rookie season by all accounts?

People are likely to exaggerate a bit depending on their affiliations, but some of the comments are ridiculous.

Bergevin's record speaks for itself.

To answer your statement in bold, I just like to say things the way they are. He was terrible defensively in the 2nd half and I'm getting tired of seeing statwatcher said his season was great or one of the best for a rookie. Great on paper, sure; lots of potential, sure; defensive liability, yes; is it normal at his age, sure. Let's see if he improves it before claiming he's got it made.. I'm not a big fan of offensive defenseman who are not so great defensively, you don't win championship with those.

 

[groovejuice]

To answer your statement in bold, I just like to say things the way they are. He was terrible defensively in the 2nd half and I'm getting tired of seeing statwatcher said his season was great or one of the best for a rookie. Great on paper, sure; lots of potential, sure; defensive liability, yes; is it normal at his age, sure. Let's see if he improves it before claiming he's got it made.. I'm not a big fan of offensive defenseman who are not so great defensively, you don't win championship with those.

You're not wrong, but it's unrealistic to expect top notch defensive play from rookie Dmen. In most cases the offence will precede the defence in terms of skill and maturity.

 

[Hfbsux]

You're not wrong, but it's unrealistic to expect to notch defensive play from rookie Dmen. In most cases the offence will precede the defence in terms of skill and maturity.

I'm not sure if it's because he got tired or because the other players figured him out. The latest is what has me wondering.. If he would have struggled in the first half and played great in the 2nd half, I wouldn't even have those question marks. I'll keep a close eye on him, that's for sure..

 

[montreal]

Sergachev had a very good first 3 months last year. What about the rest of the year? I'm not a hater, but that 2nd half was nothing close from being "one of the best". It was in fact not good at all, and I watched most of Tampa's games. It's funny because I see a lot of people doing whatever they can to bash the management at all cost, and I find it amusing too.

He had 16 pts in 41 games and 24 pts in 38 games the first 3 months. Perhaps he hit a wall, it's a big jump from the OHL to the NHL at 19. If he kept up that pace from the first 3 months, he would have put up 52 pts which would have been the 5th best in NHL history and best ever since the high scoring '80's.

I don't see it as bashing management, it's just pointing out a fact. Sergachev with 40 pts was one of the best U-20 seasons points wise since the '80's.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Very good post. It's hard to deal with arguments based on opinions that Sergachev wouldn't have scored as much in Montreal. Panarin wouldn't have either - that's no argument at all.

There is a deep seated need for some people to support management at all costs. It's not realistic, but it is amusing.

There is also a deep seated need to declare a winner of the trade after the first 30 games. Lets give it 5 years, see what type of players Sergachev and Drouin end up being.

 

[teamfirst]

Very good post. It's hard to deal with arguments based on opinions that Sergachev wouldn't have scored as much in Montreal. Panarin wouldn't have either - that's no argument at all.

There is a deep seated need for some people to support management at all costs. It's not realistic, but it is amusing.

Funny cuz you know what.....i think the same as you, only i would change the word 'support'' for the word ''crapping''

Talking for me, i only give my opinion on the trade no matter who made it, just hope it's the same for others

 

[Hfbsux]

He had 16 pts in 41 games and 24 pts in 38 games the first 3 months. Perhaps he hit a wall, it's a big jump from the OHL to the NHL at 19. If he kept up that pace from the first 3 months, he would have put up 52 pts which would have been the 5th best in NHL history and best ever since the high scoring '80's.

I don't see it as bashing management, it's just pointing out a fact. Sergachev with 40 pts was one of the best U-20 seasons points wise since the '80's.

I'd say 16 points in 41 games is not really hitting a wall for a 18 years old rookie. What bothered me was his defensive play, I recognized his great offensive potential.

 

[groovejuice]

There is also a deep seated need to declare a winner of the trade after the first 30 games. Lets give it 5 years, see what type of players Sergachev and Drouin end up being.

Sure, you never know how things will eventually turn out. It's okay to keep track in the meantime though.

 

[Frank Drebin]

He had 16 pts in 41 games and 24 pts in 38 games the first 3 months. Perhaps he hit a wall, it's a big jump from the OHL to the NHL at 19. If he kept up that pace from the first 3 months, he would have put up 52 pts which would have been the 5th best in NHL history and best ever since the high scoring '80's.

I don't see it as bashing management, it's just pointing out a fact. Sergachev with 40 pts was one of the best U-20 seasons points wise since the '80's.

Tyler Myers scored 48 points as rookie, 37 points the next. Hasn't broke 30 since.

Hell at that point in time of the bolded Kucherov was pacing for like 140 points. The entire tampa bay team was on fire. Lets see what Sergachev turns into.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Sure, you never know how things will eventually turn out. It's okay to keep track in the meantime though.

Right now we're a better team with Drouin than Sergachev, IMO.

 

[groovejuice]

Funny cuz you know what.....i think the same as you, only i would change the word 'support'' for the word ''crapping''

Talking for me, i only give my opinion on the trade no matter who made it, just hope it's the same for others

No doubt there are factions - that's a reality on discussion boards But as I wrote a bit earlier, Bergevin's moves and actions speak for themselves, I believe.

 

[montreal]

I'd say 16 points in 41 games is not really hitting a wall for a 18 years old rookie. What bothered me was his defensive play, I recognized his great offensive potential.

how? it was his first time playing against much older, bigger, stronger players in a condensed schedule with major travel. Lot's of things to wear him down over that time frame, and it shouldn't be expected that he wouldn't hit a wall and keep up that pace which no U-20 blueliner has done since the high scoring 80's.

16 pts in 41 games, that's a pace of 32 pts which still would have been a very impressive rookie season for a 19 year old defensemen.

 

[groovejuice]

Right now we're a better team with Drouin than Sergachev, IMO.

That's certainly a debatable point. But you must factor in that we moved a position of need for one of plenty.

 

[montreal]

Tyler Myers scored 48 points as rookie, 37 points the next. Hasn't broke 30 since.

Hell at that point in time of the bolded Kucherov was pacing for like 140 points. The entire tampa bay team was on fire. Lets see what Sergachev turns into.

yes anything can happen as injuries have impacted many players. Myers has had 1 season where he played 82 games since putting up that 37 pts. I don't even know how he put up that many points to begin with, he never looked that skilled to me and he put up just 77 pts in 191 games in the WHL. Sergachev at 17 had 57 pts in 67 games. But we'll see what happens, just saying that in year 1 of the trade we clearly lost and in a big way. Now part of that was due to management trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, had they just left him on the wing all year he likely would of had a better season.

Frankly I thought he was a massive disappointment last year because of the effort and defensive play while being one of the highest paid players on the team. Now that he's where he should be and if Sergachev declines the trade should even out more.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

That's certainly a debatable point. But you must factor in that we moved a position of need for one of plenty.

Indeed, but look at the lineup right now, we have good wingers, wingers that can produce, on all our lines ... Sure we might be lacking top end center(s) but in this season's beginning the team is rolling 4 lines and you can't tell which one is the third or fourth line on any given night, other than the Danault unit. I really like the lineup right now and getting production from Peca, Hudon and Byron on our bottom six is just proof that our depth on the wing is a non-negligeable asset, and hopefully, can carry this team far down the stretch.

 

[Frank Drebin]

That's certainly a debatable point. But you must factor in that we moved a position of need for one of plenty.

Yes, but Sergachev is a kid, and he doesn't fill a need for us "right now". Just like Kotkaneimi doesn't fill our #1C need right now. We need Sergachevs in the prospect pipeline, sure, but its not like we traded a Morgan Rielly for Jonathan Drouin, we traded a kid who might turn into one.

As I see it we're a better team with Drouin today.