Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin - Blue White Red Dead Redemption Edition

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Kimota

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Les Plaines D'Abraham
I remember when I saw him this summer where he said he had taken the bull by the horns and trained like crazy I was skeptical "I heard this before" from many players that played here with average results. But in his case, it did work out, he did not lie. He may just be a different guy. I don't know what happened to him mentaly but it's cool.
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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MB has overestimated a lot of players over his time as GM but the real kicker is that in many cases he proclaimed that we were better after the moves he has made, he has actually believed it. You don't have a problem with that?
I have a problem with that of course. MB is stubborn and shows some arrogance and self confidence. Hockey is a macho world, MB is not the only guy of this type in the hockey world. In a way, a GM needs to be like that to survive, to beleive in the long term. But fans like us takes that too seriously. MB as a GM doesn't affect me directly, I'm annoyed but not that much, it's just a professionnal game with millions dollars involved and a fan base who follows that. There is only one team who wins the Stanley Cup, ... and 30 loser teams.
 
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OldCraig71

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When he said Schlemko was Markov's replacement, I lost it
He's no worse than his gm in that regard, they both believed it and ultimately that sucks for all of us. I wonder if Bergevin secretly scouts beer leagues in and around the Montreal area, looking for the next great buy low?
 

OldCraig71

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I have a problem with that of course. MB is stubborn and shows some arrogance and self confidence. Hockey is a macho world, MB is not the only guy of this type in the hockey world. In a way, a GM needs to be like that to survive, to beleive in the long term. But fans like us takes that too seriously. MB as a GM doesn't affect me directly, I'm annoyed but not that much, it's just a professionnal game with millions dollars involved and a fan base who follows that. There is only one team who wins the Stanley Cup, ... and 30 loser teams.
There are parts of this that I agree with, the business part of course but I really disagree with the macho part, the game has shifted towards youth, speed, analytics and so on, it is a thinking man's game. I guess that what I am trying to say is, a strong brain is much more valuable in a management role. It's great to look good for PR reasons and not much else, Mrs America gets asked about her thoughts on climate change while standing in a two-piece bikini, you dig? We need an innovator, a shark, a no-excuses type, savvy and well connected. This is a challenging market, probably one of the toughest in the entire league for many reasons, just being a macho middle-aged bodybuilder type is not enough and frankly, the last 8 years have proven that.
 
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Catanddogguitarrr

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There are parts of this that I agree with, the business part of course but I really disagree with the macho part, the game has shifted towards youth, speed, analytics and so on, it is a thinking man's game. I guess that what I am trying to say is, a strong brain is much more valuable in a management role. It's great to look good for PR reasons and not much else, Mrs America gets asked about her thoughts on climate change while standing in a two-piece bikini, you dig? We need an innovator, a shark, a no-excuses type, savvy and well connected. This is a challenging market, probably one of the toughest in the entire league for many reasons, just being a macho middle-aged bodybuilder type is not enough and frankly, the last 8 years have proven that.
I loved the part "Mrs America gets asked about her thoughts on climate change while standing in a two-piece bikini", great !! Time is changing, we will have that connected new GM one day but not right now. I think MB changed some of his country club advisers for better and more connected. His miskates : he kept Lefebvre for too long, Therrien for too long, Desharnais the temporary patch for too long and I think he learned a few lessons that makes him today a better gm. He is surrounded with better advisers, he draft better and I expect in 2 or 3 years we'll see a real improvement. We have a better farm youth compared with 2010.
 

OldCraig71

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I loved the part "Mrs America gets asked about her thoughts on climate change while standing in a two-piece bikini", great !! Time is changing, we will have that connected new GM one day but not right now. I think MB changed some of his country club advisers for better and more connected. His miskates : he kept Lefebvre for too long, Therrien for too long, Desharnais the temporary patch for too long and I think he learned a few lessons that makes him today a better gm. He is surrounded with better advisers, he draft better and I expect in 2 or 3 years we'll see a real improvement. We have a better farm youth compared with 2010.
I think that MB was forced to change some of his country club advisors and that any only that is the reason that he did indeed finally do the right thing. He is a no compromise my way or the highway type of person and his management style has proven that. He is only headed in a "better direction"because of his own self-imposed failures. He brought us to the bottom all while claiming that he was taking us to the top. It would be like me cutting your arm with a knife on purpose but taking praise for the wonderful stitch job I did to repair your wound.
 
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sergejean

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I think that MB was forced to change some of his country club advisors and that any only that is the reason that he did indeed finally do the right thing. He is a no compromise my way or the highway type of person and his management style has proven that. He is only headed in a "better direction"because of his own self-imposed failures. He brought us to the bottom all while claiming that he was taking us to the top. It would be like me cutting your arm with a knife on purpose but taking praise for the wonderful stitch job I did to repair your wound.

And this is why the biggest problem on this team is not so much MB or whatever other GM who would replace him. The issue is that we have no HOCKEY president for our GM to report to. Molson is obviously not the right person for this role.
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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I think that MB was forced to change some of his country club advisors and that any only that is the reason that he did indeed finally do the right thing. He is a no compromise my way or the highway type of person and his management style has proven that. He is only headed in a "better direction"because of his own self-imposed failures. He brought us to the bottom all while claiming that he was taking us to the top. It would be like me cutting your arm with a knife on purpose but taking praise for the wonderful stitch job I did to repair your wound.
I would have a mixed feeling between being very mad at you and pleased that you fixed my arm with that wonderfull stitch job. That explains the mixed feelings among this board.
 

OldCraig71

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I would have a mixed feeling between being very mad at you and pleased that you fixed my arm with that wonderfull stitch job. That explains the mixed feelings among this board.
I am being permitted to fix the damage that I caused, that's not usually the way it works in professional sports. His should have been gone 3 years ago and my opinion won't change.
 
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salbutera

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Sep 10, 2019
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When did he say that? After the trade he said the following:

"We lost [Emelin] in the expansion draft and we felt we needed to replace his minutes," Canadiens general manger Marc Bergevin told the Montreal Gazette.

David Schlemko traded to Canadiens by Golden Knights
Schlemko like Alzner were signed to replace Emelin not Markov - and yes both were putrid signings the only blessing was Lucic deciding to sign in Edm instead of Mtl.
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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I am being permitted to fix the damage that I caused, that's not usually the way it works in professional sports. His should have been gone 3 years ago and my opinion won't change.
I know by now that you don't have mixed feelings, lol. You want him gone since 3 years or more and you won't change your mind. That's ok, that's democraty.
 
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salbutera

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Truth be told Habs haven’t had true brainpower at the GM spot since Pollocks departure - that’s 7-GMs and 39-years of mediocre management. Bowling alley manager Grundman makes MB and Houle look like Einstein’s.

Serge Savard ruined a promising first 5-years of GMing and his entire tenure IMO by making a generational strategic blunder and overlooking former USSR talent (this from the first team to draft a Soviet in Tretiak), let alone a string of putrid 1st round failures.

The provincial mentality Mtl Canadiens of today play second fiddle to the teams who think and behave in the global world we live in.
 
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26Mats

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Jun 23, 2018
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Jesus H Christ we have played 13 games in our schedule but I am the one that routinely gets accused for making hot takes. He has plenty to prove and a long way to go, pump the brakes.
MB really f-ed up when he signed Alzner, Schlemko, Hemsky, and Streit, and let go of Markov and Radulov claiming not enough money for them.

But the 2 summers ago he changed philosphy and then had a really good summer.

It remains to be seen what he will do with the current team - good role players, and good young talented players.
Do we have enough young talent to contend in the near future? Will he be able to add to the talent if we need more of it, or will he just continue to add role players?

He's not going anywhere, so we'll find out over the next 3 - 8 years. (lately Timmins Drafting has been good, MB's trades have been good. MB needs to step it up in the UFA market).
 
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The Great Weal

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MB really f-ed up when he signed Alzner, Schlemko, Hemsky, and Streit, and let go of Markov and Radulov claiming not enough money for them.

But the 2 summers ago he changed philosphy and then had a really good summer.

It remains to be seen what he will do with the current team - good role players, and good young talented players.
Do we have enough young talent to contend in the near future? Will he be able to add to the talent if we need more of it, or will he just continue to add role players?

He's not going anywhere, so we'll find out over the next 3 - 8 years. (lately Timmins Drafting has been good, MB's trades have been good. MB needs to step it up in the UFA market).
We are still stuck in no mans land. Not good enough to compete and not bad enough to get a high pick. We are still half-assing both directions. We "try" and get a top 4 LHD in Chiarot which hasn't worked out and a backup in Kinkaid who hasn't been that great. We also traded a guy like Shaw for picks, but then refuse to do the same with guys like Byron.
 

26Mats

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Jun 23, 2018
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We are still stuck in no mans land. Not good enough to compete and not bad enough to get a high pick. We are still half-assing both directions. We "try" and get a top 4 LHD in Chiarot which hasn't worked out and a backup in Kinkaid who hasn't been that great. We also traded a guy like Shaw for picks, but then refuse to do the same with guys like Byron.

I think the new plan is a 3 - 8 year plan. We're keeping some veterans around who will be good role models for the kids as well as potentially usefull players in 3 - 8 years.

Whether it makes hockey sense or not, I suspect Molson doesn't want to tank for financial reasons. As die hard of a hockey city as MTL is, we don't show up for a loser. A few years in a row at the bottom would be disastrous financially imo.

For the record, I posted all summer how we should trade Byron for a 2nd, sing Dzingle and MoJo to 2 year deals, let Suzuki and Poehling develop in Laval this year, have them take Dzingle and MoJo's spots next year, and trade Dzingle and MoJo for a couple more 2nds +

And I do agree with MB that the following isn't the worst core going into a 3 to 8 year plan - although it's not a contender this year:

Poehling Domi Caufield
Drouin Kotkaniemi Suzuki
Tatar Danault Gallagher
Ylonen/Lehkonen Evans/Weal/Byron/Cousins Armia

Romanov Weber
Norlinder Petry
Mete Fleury
Struble Juulsen
Harris Brook
Leskinen
Fairbrother
Kulak
Olofsson

Price
Primeau
 
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The Great Weal

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I think the new plan is a 3 - 8 year plan. We're keeping some veterans around who will be good role models for the kids as well as potentially usefull players in 3 - 8 years.

Whether it makes hockey sense or not, I suspect Molson doesn't want to tank for financial reasons. As die hard of a hockey city as MTL is, we don't show up for a loser. A few years in a row at the bottom would be disastrous financially imo.

For the record, I posted all summer how we should trade Byron for a 2nd, sing Dzingle and MoJo to 2 year deals, let Suzuki and Poehling develop in Laval this year, have them take Dzingle and MoJo's spots next year, and trade Dzingle and MoJo for a couple more 2nds +
I don't buy that. People will always go to Habs games imo. We have also missed the playoffs 3 times in the last 4 years so it's not like we are doing above average anyways. I think you can find good role models for the kids by going after other teams cap dumps and acquiring assets for taking on those contracts. I don't see the point in doing nothing with your 2 best players despite them being leaders.
 

26Mats

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Jun 23, 2018
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I don't buy that. People will always go to Habs games imo. We have also missed the playoffs 3 times in the last 4 years so it's not like we are doing above average anyways. I think you can find good role models for the kids by going after other teams cap dumps and acquiring assets for taking on those contracts. I don't see the point in doing nothing with your 2 best players despite them being leaders.

We had our first non-sell out last year, coming off the horrendous year the year before.
I do think it would be a financial hit.
At any rate, it is what it is. Get ready to try to win with the following, plus any additions at the draft, the waiver wire, or the bargain bin, but probably not the UFA market, over the next 3-8 years:

Poehling Domi Caufield
Drouin Kotkaniemi Suzuki
Tatar Danault Gallagher
Ylonen/Lehkonen Evans/Weal/Byron/Cousins Armia

Romanov Weber
Norlinder Petry
Mete Fleury
Struble Juulsen
Harris Brook
Leskinen
Fairbrother
Kulak
Olofsson

Price
Primeau
 
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