Jon Cooper says Kadri goal shouldn’t have counted, but wouldn’t say why

[stl76]

Considering no one complained about it during the play at full speed, a screenshot 20 minutes after the game ended isn’t exactly egregious.

I was referring to the missed too many men call:



Pretty sure there were plenty of people who watched it at full speed and complained. I think it's fair to call this egregious, but thems the breaks.

 

[MoeTheHobo]

Looking at the pp stats it was probably in TBL's favour that the refs stopped calling penalties lol

 

[josra33]

I was referring to the missed too many men call:



Pretty sure there were plenty of people who watched it at full speed and complained. Thems the breaks tho.

Tampa had more players on the ice than the Avs…

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

Maybe I’m desensitized by watching the late 2000s Red Wings and their line changes from 10 feet off the bench, but this doesn’t seem that bad to me.

 

[josra33]

Looking at the pp stats it was probably in TBL's favour that the refs stopped calling penalties lol

Avs seem to control the PK this series. It’s sad really.

 

[zxcvnm]

Premature substitution is what the rulebook calls it. It could have been a referee subjective bullshit that this League is known for, or maybe they just missed it.

IF in the randomness of how the League doles outs it’s “rules”, they did mean to call too many men penalties in OT, it’s reasonable to think the goal shouldn’t have counted.

Kadri did make the play in the end, but like you said the Avs benefited. Would Kadri have had that speed to beat the Tampa D if he had not entered the ice 4 seconds before legally allowed to? Can’t say one way or the other, but I don’t think fans or spectators should be put in a position to have to think about these hypotheticals. This is why game management is stupid, call the book or change the book.

I don’t like game management either but it’s human nature. It sucks to see calls missed have an impact. It’s made worse in a high variance sport like hockey. I just don’t see this as a particularly egregious missed call - just one that ended up having an outsized impact. I think Cooper is wrong to diminish the outcome with his actions post-game.

 

[Joe Sakic]

We were cap compliant all season long. We earned this one.

 

[Oil Gauge]

Nah, Mackinnon was actually in the neutral zone for his line change at first, he was heading towards the neutral zone door, but realized that was the Defense door, and turns back to the door inside the zone. He was outside of the Ozone at the time Kadri entered.

but the door is in the offensive zone, he would have been in the offensive zone before he got off the ice while Kadri had the puck. He is judged to have left the playing surface when both skates are off the ice. Id argue that it is unlikely he stayed out of the zone while he got onto the bench through a gate inside of the zone.

 

[Antiramie]

The amount of whataboutism when something like this happens will never not be funny.

 

[LOFIN]

Basically, the league admitted it was a f*** up by the refs but such is life

But I guarantee you in the next GM or owners meeting someone is going to want that thing reviewable...

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

...Avs have 6 players on the ice for a second or two...Lightning have 7 for a second or two longer...Cooper just summoning his inner Doucherov...

 

[stl76]

Tampa had more players on the ice than the Avs…

If you don't understand that too many men on the ice involves players touching the puck and impacting the play then I don't know what to tell you. Your team won, maybe enjoy the victory?

 

[katfude]

Y'know what? You want that to be called Too Many Men? Ok sure. Fine.

But you gotta be super consistent with it, and announce it is being enfroced that way before the season starts like they did with hooking.

And get ready for very boring, very stupid games. Having refs just buttslam bench minors on teams is a fantastic way to kill the league.

 

[TheNumber4]

I don’t like game management either but it’s human nature. It sucks to see calls missed have an impact. It’s made worse in a high variance sport like hockey. I just don’t see this as a particularly egregious missed call - just one that ended up having an outsized impact. I think Cooper is wrong to diminish the outcome with his actions post-game.

I think the Avs win this regardless as they were pressing all OT and most of the 3rd… but man it’s kind of a joke to have to speculate when it comes to sport at the highest levels instead of the sport just being what it is. This is why I’ll never agree with any notions of putting whistles away or game management. Rulebooks are supposed to contain the Rules, the rules shouldn’t exist in the brains and biases of individual refs that can change from a game to game or even period by period basis.

 

[hockeyfanplayer]

Maybe Cooper can take his broken heart home to petition the league to give last year’s cup to the isles since they lost on a similar play

 

[huerter]

I've dissected every angle. I'm convinced that Kadri is supposed to be changing for Nichushkin. Nichushkin is exiting the zone in the direction of the bench. Kadri is anxious to jump on because he sees the transition opportunity so he goes a little early (if Nichushkin proceeds to the bench). At the same time, NIchushkin turns away from the bench because he also sees the transition happening. Then Mackinnon skates to the bench. So it appears like Kadri jumped on way way way early for Mackinnon but I don't think the intention was even to change for Mackinnon.

 

[josra33]

If you don't understand that too many men on the ice involves players touching the puck and impacting the play then I don't know what to tell you. Your team won, maybe enjoy the victory?

Colorado was called for too many men earlier in the series without touching the puck. It was a delayed call because we had too many men while the other team had the puck. Might want to learn the whole rule.

 

[Vukotal Recall]

1. Emotional coach got his hopes up with one of the most competitive groups of guys in the game for a dynasty just lost. It’s similar to coaches who see a hit with a bad result almost always say it’s dirty after the game regardless, which

2. Coach is gonna gamesmanship. Definitely a poor attempt at it because #1 and he was upset, but whatever. Kinda amusing, kinda nothing at the same time. People just like to hate on the Bolts


Cooper is one of my favorite coaches I’ve seen in the game as a fan of another team. They way he talks in interviews, and how he is on those behind the scenes shows, just how he is, seems like a guy who oozes enthusiasm and faith in himself and bleeds for his team.
Can understand how they really believed they were gonna do it a third time and they got hit hard by a reality check just now that the odds are seriously stacked against them. The Avs deserved this one, but remember that last second in the period chance like they got game 2 against the Panthers, and a fortunate bounce for an Avs goal (happens with all winners) they were so close to tying the series too.


Idk I love both teams as a neutral fan. I was hoping for 7 games; I mostly followed the Avs as my second team this year and I’ll be happy when the Avs get their deserved cup, but if any other west team makes it and I think the Bolts have a more serious chance. Nothing but respect for Bolts and I was kinda rooting for the three peat, I’ll be amazed if they come back.

Well said. And seriously, missing Braydon Point is a huge deal.

 

[MaKarter]

Tampa had more players on the ice than the Avs…

Yeah but none of them gained position to make the game winning shot.

Tampa has a grievance. It won't result in anything but a lose. But they definitely have the right to feel cheated. I felt that way about Landeskog jumping over boards against San Jose.

 

[Master P]

Basically, the league admitted it was a f*** up by the refs but such is life

But I guarantee you in the next GM or owners meeting someone is going to want that thing reviewable...

And there it is

 

[Mikeshane]

They showed a behind Kuemper video on tv where you can see the changes pretty well, not sure why it's not shown up here yet.

 

[PromisedLand]

I love how into the rules tampa fans are now

This!

hockey gods are service JUSTICE

 

[AvalancheRy]

Y'know what? You want that to be called Too Many Men? Ok sure. Fine.

But you gotta be super consistent with it, and announce it is being enfroced that way before the season starts like they did with hooking.

And get ready for very boring, very stupid games. Having refs just buttslam bench minors on teams is a fantastic way to kill the league.

This is exactly right. The called this specific play like they've been calling it all year and all game.

 

[Antiramie]

Y'know what? You want that to be called Too Many Men? Ok sure. Fine.

But you gotta be super consistent with it, and announce it is being enfroced that way before the season starts like they did with hooking.

And get ready for very boring, very stupid games. Having refs just buttslam bench minors on teams is a fantastic way to kill the league.

I can't speak for other teams, but the Lightning have been called for like 5 Too Many Men penalties so far this postseason.

Let's not act like there's suddenly zero precedent for making this call.

The reality is the refs simply missed it or refused to call anything at a certain point of the game. Neither is acceptable.

 

[zxcvnm]

If you don't understand that too many men on the ice involves players touching the puck and impacting the play then I don't know what to tell you. Your team won, maybe enjoy the victory?

I think for a lot of Avs fans, Cooper’s actions in the post-game press conference diminishes the victory. It’s not surprising that many Avs fans want to revalidate it.

I think it was a missed call. I think Cooper should have handled it very differently.