Jokerit Helsinki 2014/15 Season Talk - Part II [MOD WARNING #439]

[Peter25]

Did this HIFK fan compare Jokerit and CHL games?

No, he was talking about Liiga/SM-Liiga games.

He specifically said that he has never seen so much speed in a Liiga game played in Hartwall Arena that he saw in yesterday's game against Avangard.

 

[Finnpin]

This does not mean that KHL is not physical though. I think KHL is more physical than Liiga, because KHL players in general are a bit stronger and harder to knock off the puck than Liiga players.

It's different physicality. Liiga has more hits and scuffles for example.

 

[Peter25]

It's different physicality. Liiga has more hits and scuffles for example.

I would not count fights/scuffles as being physical but I guess you are right that there are more bodychecks in Liiga than in KHL.

In KHL the physicality means more of an ability to hold on the puck and make plays in tight checking where space and time are scarce, and generally win one-on-one battles.

 

[Finnpin]

I would not count fights/scuffles as being physical but I guess you are right that there are more bodychecks in Liiga than in KHL.

In KHL the physicality means more of an ability to hold on the puck and make plays in tight checking where space and time are scarce, and generally win one-on-one battles.

LOL what? Playing physical means hits and scuffles too, obviously.

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Atm I'm ok with Karlsson in the net more than Helenius, though he needs better rebound controlling as opponent forwards have too easy time in front of Jokerit goalie.

 

[Peter25]

Playing physical means hits and scuffles.

It also means being able to take hits and fight off checks. For a defenseman it means an ability to win battles for the puck in front of your own goal and along the boards.

Defensemen of Omsk were not hitting that much yesterday, but they still won the majority of the battles along the boards, especially in the first two periods.

If you compare Liiga and KHL I don't think an average Liiga team could outplay an average KHL team with hitting or scuffles because average KHL players are generally bigger and stronger. By playing overly physical against a KHL team a Liiga team would just take itself out of position that would lead to odd man rushes and scoring opportunities.

 

[Finnpin]

It also means being able to take hits and fight off checks. For a defenseman it means an ability to win battles for the puck in front of your own goal and along the boards.

True but you make it sound as it's the only way of playing physical and it's not. Liiga compared to KHL is "wrestling hockey" as referees lets players battle hard for the puck: more grabbing, interference and hooking. For example Moses in that type of physical game was many times in trouble, he has now more room in KHL.

 

[Peter25]

True but you make it sound as it's the only way of playing physical and it's not.

Nope, I used a word "also".

 

[Finnpin]

Nope, I used a word "also".

Read the bold part:

I would not count fights/scuffles as being physical but I guess you are right that there are more bodychecks in Liiga than in KHL.

You also called KHL more physical than Liiga in your own physical terms.

 

[Peter25]

You also called KHL more physical in your own physical terms.

I think it is more physical, but you are free to disagree.

Cobol in Jatkoaika summared this pretty well:

3) KHL:ssä ne pelaajat jotka pystyvät taklaamaan ovat usein liian hitaita siihen koska pelitempo KHL:ssä on merkittävästi suurempi kuin esim. Liigassa. Esimerkiksi Jokereista Karalahti ja moni muu ei pysty sellaiseen taklauspeliin isossa laatikossa mikä veisi peliä eteenpäin eikä taklaaja ajautuisi pelin ulkopuolelle. Näissä tapauksissa taklauksesta tulee usein rangaistuksen arvoinen: se on myöhässä, osuu väärin jne.

A translation for non-Finnish speakers:
In the KHL those players who can make hits are often too slow to do that, because the speed in a KHL game is drastically higher than in Liiga. Karalahti and many other Jokerit players cannot initiate bodychecks in a big ice that would be beneficial for their team and that would not take themselves out of the position. Because of this (speed) the hit is more likely to be late or otherwise illegal that would result to penalties.


I think this is spot on. Jokerit has not been playing very physical either even if it has no Russian players and many players (Karalahti, Väänänen) that are known to be physical. The speed of the game does not allow them to actively initiate bodychecks because they would be constantly out of position. Think someone like Karalahti who is slower than molasses running around and trying to hit players that are twice as fast as him.

 

[Finnpin]

I think this is spot on. Jokerit has not been playing very physical either even if it has no Russian players and many players (Karalahti, Väänänen) that are known to be physical. The speed of the game does not allow them to actively initiate bodychecks because they would be constantly out of position. Think someone like Karalahti who is slower than molasses running around and trying to hit players that are twice as fast as him.

That's true and IMO Jokerit would be better in smaller rink.

But your words saying that hits and scuffles ain't physical hockey is stupid. I have heard many Finns saying about KHL that it's not even contact sport compared to Liiga. Different styles and physicality in both leagues and ways to analyze the physicality. Size of the rinks also plays a part.

 

[Peter25]

But your words saying that hits and scuffles ain't physical hockey is stupid.

Read again. I said that fights and scuffles are not physical hockey (in my books). Hitting certainly is.

 

[Finnpin]

Media already writing that Karalahti is unhappy and wants to leave after getting scratched for 2 games.

Any takers? I wouldn't mind.

 

[Urbanskog]

Send him to Minsk.

 

[QnebO]

Jere is seriously whining? Omg. Other D's have rested too.

He probably holds some trade value though. Maybe it can buy solid forward.

 

[Peter25]

I see Karalahti no more than a 7th defenseman in Jokerit now behind Jaakola, Gunderson, Todd, Lajunen, Väänänen and Ohtamaa. In fact I'm not sure that Karalahti is better than Korpikari either.

His departure would be no big loss. He is no longer an offensive threat. He has not thrown any body checks at all the whole season. And his defensive zone play is hampered by his slow mobility.

Can't believe he was the top scoring defenseman in Liiga last season and was part of the WHC team! Has he deteriorated this much in one year?

 

[Whiskey In the Jar]

I would really like to hear some facts from jokerit about this jere case. It still only media rumours. He has a good contract so it just sounds weird.

The fact is jere isn't young anymore and the every-other-day gameday schedule might takes its toll. He hasn't been playing too well after the pre-season and his speed seems to be the problem in khl definitely. If the rumour is correct then it is more like an ego question for him.

 

[Arto Kilponen]

As a quick question, for which any Jokerit fan _should_ know the answer:

Is Jokerit sold now partially from Harkimo to Russians (Rotherberg et co.)? The last I've heard there's an option that the Russians can buy it, but as of right now, does Harkimo still own Jokerit entirely (or as entirely as he did, say, a couple of years ago)?

 

[Finnpin]

As a quick question, for which any Jokerit fan _should_ know the answer:

Is Jokerit sold now partially from Harkimo to Russians (Rotherberg et co.)? The last I've heard there's an option that the Russians can buy it, but as of right now, does Harkimo still own Jokerit entirely (or as entirely as he did, say, a couple of years ago)?

You haven't checked much news.

Harkimo: 51%
Basically just Roman Rotenberg: 49%

There is no option.

 

[QnebO]

You haven't checked much news.

Harkimo: 51%
Basically just Roman Rotenberg: 49%

There is no option.

The option was there but it is already used. It was for that 49%.

 

[Finnpin]

The option was there but it is already used. It was for that 49%.

I ment there is no option to buy more.

 

[penepi]

Ilta-Sanomien tietojen mukaan muun muassa ruotsalainen HV-71 sekä KHL-seurat Amur Habarovsk, Medvescak Zagreb ja Slovan Bratislava ovat selvitelleet Karalahden tulevaisuuden näkymiä.

Source: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/khl/art-1288754191267.html

Interesting, do you think he might be a big boost to our team?

 

[mattihp]

Meh, let him play a couple of mins at wing!

 

[Finnpin]

IS started this whole Karalahti ain't happy thing so that tells everything and Kurri said Jere ain't going nowhere.

Some of the Finnish media has big trouble of understanding the Jokerit's rotation system.

 

[Arto Kilponen]

The option was there but it is already used. It was for that 49%.

This is basically the answer I was looking for. Thanks!

And no, for some reason I haven't followed news about this a lot. There was last summer a lot of confusion about "Jokerit is sold - No it is not, it is just an option" and thus I think I might have missed the news.

 

[QnebO]

Jere Karalahti in an hour long interview at Harkimo's talk show tonight.

mtv3 @ 21.30 if I recall the time right.