John Tavares

[francis246]

Tell that to pure scorers like Ovie, Laine, and Matthews

exactly 3 people, how many people in their careers have more goals than assists. Not many

 

[Jack Bauer]

I'll admit it's a bit soon but I watched Tavares on the Island a lot and he's a different player in Toronto. He controls the play a lot less. Maybe it's adjusting to new line mates and the new system.

He was the #1 C, captain, face of the franchise and had all pressure, ice time, and expectations put on him while almost having zero help for a decade in terms of depth.

He came here and slid in as a #2 C ice time wise. Even with Matthews out he was never given big minutes he simply bumped up to #1 C.

Coaches who coach to preserve their players for 82 games and a 2 month marathon have different goals for their players then the ones playing 1 line for 24 minutes a night hoping to ride it through mid June. We seen that when Matthews went down and Tavares still never came close to getting McDavid minutes.

 

[Buds17]

It's an entirely UFA contract, and a tad early in that contract to boot. Second highest paid at the moment, but that might very well change over the seven season span. Included in that could be some of the players that are currently pacing ahead of Tavares. The stats will also fluctuate.

 

[francis246]

I'll admit it's a bit soon but I watched Tavares on the Island a lot and he's a different player in Toronto. He controls the play a lot less. Maybe it's adjusting to new line mates and the new system.

obviously it's different systems. Babcock's system isn't a free wheeling system like New York's. New York was always known for offense lol, they rarely played defense on the Island, which is why they brought in Barry Trotz

 

[hector morrison]

Yes if it means he's ranked 33rd in the league. That's not superstar player performance. At 11 mil he should in the top ten.

So ....'points' is everything to you? Do you actually watch the games or just check the box scores the next day?

 

[Matthews34]

exactly 3 people, how many people in their careers have more goals than assists. Not many

I could on but I'm not going to do all your homework

 

[hector morrison]

It's an entirely UFA contract, and a tad early in that contract to boot. Second highest paid at the moment, but that might very well change over the seven season span. Included in that could be some of the players that are currently pacing ahead of Tavares. The stats will also fluctuate.

The eleven mil/yr will not stand out as much in a few years.However his work ethic /production will stand out.

 

[Matthews34]

So ....'points' is everything to you? Do you actually watch the games or just check the box scores the next day?

Is this the part where you start telling me about the intangibles and all the little things he does ..... Don't bother. All elite players paid top dollar are expected to do those things.

 

[Vaive50]

When Nylander and Matthews were both our for a month, we stayed at the top of the league because of JT, He is just as valuable to us as Sundin was. The other big factor of why he is more valuable than just his points is that he is a 200 ft player and a leader in the locker room. BTW, so he has 15 points less than Mcdavid, maybe if he had the same ice time McDavid or many of the stat leaders have, then he'd have as many or more points than them also. I wonder if the Oiler fans are complaining about McDavid having 7 points less than Rantanen when he should be at least 7 points more.

 

[hector morrison]

Is this the part where you start telling me about the intangibles and all the little things he does ..... Don't bother. All elite players paid top dollar are expected to do those things.

What part of his game are unhappy with ,exactly?

 

[IPS]

Is this the part where you start telling me about the intangibles and all the little things he does ..... Don't bother. All elite players paid top dollar are expected to do those things.

I mean if you're expecting Tavares to light up the score sheet non-stop he's definitely capable of it, just not in this system. Babcock's system will always artificially reduce player's production, what with his obsessive line-matching (very common to see Tavares and Matthews only play 10-15 second shifts) which honestly disrupts the rhythm with a lot of our players. He's also very conservative with how much ice-time he gives stars.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Is this the part where you start telling me about the intangibles and all the little things he does ..... Don't bother. All elite players paid top dollar are expected to do those things.

No, they're not.

Patrick Kane doesn't have the same expectations as Toews does in Chicago.

Not all elite players are expected to have intangibles. Some are simply elite in terms of the talent they possess and are not wanted or needed to play PK or lead vocally on or off the ice.

You are sinking yourself with whatever argument you are trying to make here.

 

[DankinIT]

Not to be a 11 million player who isn't in the top 30 points or top 5 goals. Is that too much to ask from a player paid the second highest in the league????

You're basing all of this on what he is paid? Teams having a great year, John is having a career year as and your focus on this is how much he is getting paid in compared to the other leaders in the league. Give us all a break man.

 

[Jack Bauer]

When Nylander and Matthews were both our for a month, we stayed at the top of the league because of JT, He is just as valuable to us as Sundin was. The other big factor of why he is more valuable than just his points is that he is a 200 ft player and a leader in the locker room. BTW, so he has 15 points less than Mcdavid, maybe if he had the same ice time McDavid or many of the stat leaders have, then he'd have as many or more points than them also. I wonder if the Oiler fans are complaining about McDavid having 7 points less than Rantanen when he should be at least 7 points more.

And only after 3 months or so we're seeing his leadership and how he handles himself rub off on others.

I believe it was Marner who was asked what impressed him the most and his answer was JT's diet. For a Marner, who has issues with his own diet, that kind of leadership can be invaluable over time as he's seeing first hand what it takes to become an elite year in year out 2 way force in this league.

People just don't seem to get that Babcock is also not managing to maximize these guys point potential. It's to try and keep them fresh for the Spring. If he cared about them setting records we could roll with 8 D and dress 10 forwards and not miss a beat with our forward depth.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Not to be a 11 million player who isn't in the top 30 points or top 5 goals. Is that too much to ask from a player paid the second highest in the league????

Using your own logic against you:

We should have been the 29th ranked team when Nylander signed on Dec 1 because up until then we had the 3rd most amount of cap space and therefore should have easily been surpassed by all the teams spending more on their roster this year then we were.

Even now we shouldn't be a playoff team because we're still not spending in the top 16 of overall cap usage and thats including dead money like Horton and Kessel.

Babcock is a genius when you look at those facts.

 

[IPS]

People just don't seem to get that Babcock is also not managing to maximize these guys point potential. It's to try and keep them fresh for the Spring. If he cared about them setting records we could roll with 8 D and dress 10 forwards and not miss a beat with our forward depth.

I'm agreeing with everything you say up until here.

"Keeping them fresh for spring" is complete bullshit and it does nothing. Other elite teams see no need to do things like these and they've all went further than us the last 2 years. I've seen no evidence that this "keeping them fresh" ideology translates to any more success in the playoffs.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I'm agreeing with everything you say up until here.

"Keeping them fresh for spring" is complete bull**** and it does nothing. Other elite teams see no need to do things like these and they've all went further than us the last 2 years. I've seen no evidence that this "keeping them fresh" ideology translates to any more success in the playoffs.

Having less fatigue and fewer injuries is better. That's not debatable, no evidence is required and you don't get to have an opinion on it.

 

[ShaneFalco]

He doesn't care about keeping Hainsey or Andersen fresh

 

[IPS]

Having less fatigue and injuries helps you in the playoffs. That's not debatable and you don't get to have an opinion on it.

Holy f***ing smokes don't get so defensive

We were the only team who took that approach last year and we lost in round 1. Winnipeg for example rode their horses hard all season and they did way f***ing better than we did. I'm only laying out the facts buddy, not even giving an opinion.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I'm agreeing with everything you say up until here.

"Keeping them fresh for spring" is complete bull**** and it does nothing. Other elite teams see no need to do things like these and they've all went further than us the last 2 years. I've seen no evidence that this "keeping them fresh" ideology translates to any more success in the playoffs.

Less fatigue and injury means a better chance at long term success. It's a simple concept.

Very few players can play 8-10 minutes more every game and hold up compared to equally talented players who are properly rested.

When we had a Phaneuf playing those types of minutes out of necessity people would flip out when he'd wear down and make mistakes. When you have depth keeping every one fresh is the biggest benefit of the depth.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Holy ****ing smokes don't get so defensive

We were the only team who took that approach last year and we lost in round 1. Winnipeg for example rode their horses hard all season and they did way ****ing better than we did. I'm only laying out the facts buddy, not even giving an opinion.

Defensive? I'm not defending anyone, I don't think you know what that word means.

I'm saying that having less fatigue and injuries is better than more fatigue and injuries, and that it isn't a debatable point.

 

[authentic]

I'm reserving my disappointment for the playoffs. If he's held to a minor role and there's an early first round exit I'll consider his contributions disappointing.

Premature thread. He's on pace for 50 goals. Pump the brakes a bit. Babcock teams don't produce Art Ross winners. It's a team game and team success > individual success.

While he hasn't been quite as good so far as I imagined, I still side with this. His speed limits him on a lot of plays I notice but he is producing well and works hard out there all over the ice. He will continue to get better I think and in the playoffs I have high hopes for him.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Is this the part where you start telling me about the intangibles and all the little things he does ..... Don't bother. All elite players paid top dollar are expected to do those things.

Why are you trying so hard to be miserable about how the team is doing?

 

[Havoc]

Tavares and Marner put up points because they're good, not because they have chemistry.

Anyone who has watched majority of the games like I have has seen this: They don't have chemistry like the media portrays them to have. They're just skilled so the points come.

Marner is not a sniper. He will score in streaks but not consistently. What he will put up consistently is assists, probably 50-60 a season. That is why Tavares' doesn't have video-game stats like we predicted he would have.

When Nylander is 100%, the lineup should be Matthews-Marner and Tavares-Nylander.

Nylander's game is suited for Tavares and Nylander can bring out that Tavares Islanders version who is the magician for his line.

I'm not saying Nylander-Matthews is not an elite combo, the context is maximizing Tavares' skill set.

 

[IPS]

Defensive? I'm not defending anyone, I don't think you know what that word means.

I'm saying that having less fatigue and injuries is better than more fatigue and injuries, and that it isn't a debatable point.

#1 - how are you quantifying this alleged fatigue and what data are you using to link it to more success in the playoffs?

#2 - how come the teams who don't follow this ideology have done better than we have in the playoffs? And in the regular season?

Not debatable? I love how you say this while completely ignoring the facts that debunks this. The way you ignore these facts is actually very defensive.