John Tavares

[Tavares2Matthews]

JT has been underwhelming so far this season. Playing with Marner I thought he'd be dominant but Marner is the one caring that line similar to how Marner carried Kadri last season. At 11 million for the next 7 years we aren't getting much bang for our buck and created a cap nightmare. All summer long I heard how the bad players he played with on the Island held his point totals down from superstar status but that seems to be a fallacy now. I'm not going to lie I'm disappointed with his start in Toronto. And before people start telling me I'm crazy keep in mind he's the second highest paid in the league and sits 33rd in league scoring, 15 points behind McDavid, 19 points behind MacKinnon playing with one of the best RW in the league.

So a guy tied for 9th in goals, over a point per game and can take important key draws, has been underwhelming?


I would HATE to see what you'd say if he was actually underwhelming this season.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Ridiculous. JT is just as advertised but his assist totals are being killed by Marner/Hyman. He is an elite NHL passer/playmaker, the best passing center on our team, and a former 50 assist man. Marner is great for JT's goal scoring numbers but we badly need to replace Hyman on that line with a guy who can bury it.

 

[Matthews34]

You're disappointed with 34 points in 33 games?

Yes if it means he's ranked 33rd in the league. That's not superstar player performance. At 11 mil he should in the top ten.

 

[Mikeyg]

Are you guys smoking? Just because weed is legal now doesn’t mean you need to blaze 24/7. Jt has been stellar for us, 40 goal pace walking onto a new team is fantastic, hes worth every penny.

 

[93LEAFS]

He's been fine. JT is a highly adaptable piece. Mitch is great at getting him the puck, but Tavares has an absolute knack for finding the soft spots on the ice, and Marner is aware enough to find him.

Being on a bad team can also inflate your totals. In Long Island, the Isles powerplay would always run through him, on the Leafs, he gets the puck as the 4th option generally, and we also aren't playing our first unit for 90 seconds at a time. If JT needed to be the playmaker on his line, that is what he would do. He's 2nd in goals at 5v5, and 5th in primary points. He's a significant reason, its our best line by xGF% models. The line is scoring 64% of the goals at 5v5 when on the ice-togeather.

I think you are looking at the basic stats too much, and potentially didn't understand the type of player we got.

 

[hamzarocks]

No one on the team is better than him along the boards and he has some insane strength. His skating does hold him back from being able to fly out and dominating shifts with more open ice like kapanen, or marner do. He is a a elite player with the ability to be better. I wish we had paid him 10 million instead of 11 but his signing si far looks quite good.

 

[Matthews34]

I guess Leaf fans have grown to have low expectations and fine with career averages when he should be producing more. His 11 million is now going drive up Matthews' and Marner's cap hit to crazy numbers. But if every Leaf fan is fine with that I guess I'm the crazy person.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

He's been fine. JT is a highly adaptable piece. Mitch is great at getting him the puck, but Tavares has an absolute knack for finding the soft spots on the ice, and Marner is aware enough to find him.

Being on a bad team can also inflate your totals. In Long Island, the Isles powerplay would always run through him, on the Leafs, he gets the puck as the 4th option generally, and we also aren't playing our first unit for 90 seconds at a time. If JT needed to be the playmaker on his line, that is what he would do. He's 2nd in goals at 5v5, and 5th in primary points. He's a significant reason, its our best line by xGF% models. The line is scoring 64% of the goals at 5v5 when on the ice-togeather.

I think you are looking at the basic stats too much, and potentially didn't understand the type of player we got.

Yep...and there are 2 mitigating factors that are depressing his point totals:

1. He's net front on the PP now (wasn't on the island) and net front guys don;t get it as much on the PP.

2. He does not have a finisher on his line. Need to move Kappy or AJ up there with JT/Mitch.

 

[Trapper]

Yep...and there are 2 mitigating factors that are depressing his point totals:

1. He's net front on the PP now (wasn't on the island) and net front guys don;t get it as much on the PP.

2. He does not have a finisher on his line. Need to move Kappy or AJ up there with JT/Mitch.

Yeah usually net front guys get the goal or nothing.
I like Hyman, appreciate what he brings, but you have one of the best passers in the game and everyone knows who is getting the puck.
Marner doesn't finish enough to mitigate this.
I agree we need another option for scoring on that line to take full advantage of Mitch passing.
I would also like someone who has a little aggression in their game.
In London I loved the Domi...Dvorak...Marner and Tkachuk...Dvorak...Marner line.
So who do we have that is a 25-30 goal scorer that can play aggressive, agitate, skill, take the body down low, etc.?

 

[Sweet Leaf]

So who do we have that is a 25-30 goal scorer that can play aggressive, agitate, skill, take the body down low, etc.?

Kappy probably the best right now at those things. We're hoping Grundstrom is in that mold.

 

[razkaz]

Yeah usually net front guys get the goal or nothing.
I like Hyman, appreciate what he brings, but you have one of the best passers in the game and everyone knows who is getting the puck.
Marner doesn't finish enough to mitigate this.
I agree we need another option for scoring on that line to take full advantage of Mitch passing.
I would also like someone who has a little aggression in their game.
In London I loved the Domi...Dvorak...Marner and Tkachuk...Dvorak...Marner line.
So who do we have that is a 25-30 goal scorer that can play aggressive, agitate, skill, take the body down low, etc.?

So who's going to center the 3rd line with Kadri on Tavrares' left?

 

[93LEAFS]

Yeah usually net front guys get the goal or nothing.
I like Hyman, appreciate what he brings, but you have one of the best passers in the game and everyone knows who is getting the puck.
Marner doesn't finish enough to mitigate this.
I agree we need another option for scoring on that line to take full advantage of Mitch passing.
I would also like someone who has a little aggression in their game.
In London I loved the Domi...Dvorak...Marner and Tkachuk...Dvorak...Marner line.
So who do we have that is a 25-30 goal scorer that can play aggressive, agitate, skill, take the body down low, etc.?

Domi-Dvorak-Marner wasn't very good together outside the PP. Marner and Dvorak mostly played with Matt Rupert. Domi spent most of his time with McCarron until McCarron was traded.

 

[DarkKnight]

For the love of....guy is tracking for a career year in goals and he's disappointed. What is wrong with people.

 

[Finn16]

I guess Leaf fans have grown to have low expectations and fine with career averages when he should be producing more. His 11 million is now going drive up Matthews' and Marner's cap hit to crazy numbers. But if every Leaf fan is fine with that I guess I'm the crazy person.

And if he signed for 13.5 Million in SJ what does that do to their contracts? You don't think their agents could look at that contract and use it to drive up the price?

 

[Trapper]

So who's going to center the 3rd line with Kadri on Tavrares' left?

Babcock's system usually relies on the center with controlled entry.
IMO, the wingers should be built with speed/skill (yes) but also puck pursuit/forecheck.

Bolded denotes controlled entry

Johnsson...Matthews...PWF (would like one here for sure)
Kadri...Tavares...Marner
Hyman(PK)...Nylander...Kapanen(PK)
Marleau(PP)...Lindholm(PK)...Brown(PK)

That's what I would like to see. Just my opinion that Nylander is better utilized as a center. His zone entries, skill, skating, owning the middle of the ice, is better served IMO in the middle.

 

[Morbo]

Is this a serious thread?

sadly, yes.

sure he got top dollar, he would have gotten that anywhere. welcome to unrestricted free agency.

I don't know how anybody could be disappointed this early. the guy has 20 goals already.

 

[DankinIT]

I guess Leaf fans have grown to have low expectations and fine with career averages when he should be producing more. His 11 million is now going drive up Matthews' and Marner's cap hit to crazy numbers. But if every Leaf fan is fine with that I guess I'm the crazy person.

Low expectations? Tavares once again, as mentioned a few times in this thread, is having a career year. What more do you need?

 

[cmorly]

JT has been underwhelming so far this season. Playing with Marner I thought he'd be dominant but Marner is the one caring that line similar to how Marner carried Kadri last season. At 11 million for the next 7 years we aren't getting much bang for our buck and created a cap nightmare. All summer long I heard how the bad players he played with on the Island held his point totals down from superstar status but that seems to be a fallacy now. I'm not going to lie I'm disappointed with his start in Toronto. And before people start telling me I'm crazy keep in mind he's the second highest paid in the league and sits 33rd in league scoring, 15 points behind McDavid, 19 points behind MacKinnon playing with one of the best RW in the league.

I think you forgot the sarcastic Emoji

 

[Warden of the North]

I guess Leaf fans have grown to have low expectations and fine with career averages when he should be producing more. His 11 million is now going drive up Matthews' and Marner's cap hit to crazy numbers. But if every Leaf fan is fine with that I guess I'm the crazy person.

Hes having a career year.

A career year, by definition, is not average.

 

[Muston Atthews]

He’s the only one who gives a shit every night* and battles in the trenches. Has been standing up for teammates and takes a beating nightly. Also on pace for a career year. Bad thread is bad

*Marner, Kapanen and Hyman seem to show up most nights as well

 

[81Leafs50]

JT has been underwhelming so far this season. Playing with Marner I thought he'd be dominant but Marner is the one caring that line similar to how Marner carried Kadri last season. At 11 million for the next 7 years we aren't getting much bang for our buck and created a cap nightmare. All summer long I heard how the bad players he played with on the Island held his point totals down from superstar status but that seems to be a fallacy now. I'm not going to lie I'm disappointed with his start in Toronto. And before people start telling me I'm crazy keep in mind he's the second highest paid in the league and sits 33rd in league scoring, 15 points behind McDavid, 19 points behind MacKinnon playing with one of the best RW in the league.

this screams to be "clueless"

 

[Muston Atthews]

Ridiculous. JT is just as advertised but his assist totals are being killed by Marner/Hyman. He is an elite NHL passer/playmaker, the best passing center on our team, and a former 50 assist man. Marner is great for JT's goal scoring numbers but we badly need to replace Hyman on that line with a guy who can bury it.

So true. At the start of the year you could see JT forcing passes to Marner who would try to get the puck back to him. He learned quickly not to pass it to Zach in scoring areas and has now learned to keep his stick on the ice and be ready when Mitch has the puck. For as many goals as he has, he missed a ton of chances at the beginning of the year not being used to Mitch

 

[MSZ]

Jesus F-Christ... think about it: Sundin's career high during his time in TO was 41 goals. JT will most likely score more than that in his first year here.

Think about it.

 

[Carltons Cup]

Yes if it means he's ranked 33rd in the league. That's not superstar player performance. At 11 mil he should in the top ten.

So by your logic, if Matthews get McJesus money, then he should be 2nd in the league scoring race next year? If he doesn't then AM will have been a bust according to you? You do realize there are other attributes that make a hockey player "great".

You must have a lot of extra time on your hands....

 

[Marshy]

I think some fans would not even be happy with a Cup if we didn't have an individual regular season award winner or a top 10 scorer in the league.