Confirmed with Link: John Chayka named Arizona Coyotes GM

MIGs Dog

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Jan 3, 2012
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More to the job than just playing with a spreadsheet. On that I believe I probably am.

I agree that it is more than just developing an analytical system to evaluate players.

Hard to imagine a 26 year old will have the negotiating skills to go head to head with the other GMs who all have decades more experience in life and the sport.

I also think evaluating prospects will be hard for Chayka, since what you are looking for does not necessarily show up on the stat sheet. He will need to rely on good scouting for the draft as well as determining who to sign to entry level contracts.
 

Heldig

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Apr 12, 2002
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This is kind of the anti leafs management style. They have what, 7 managers and about a thousand years of actual NHL experience at the helm.

Seriously though, I know nothing about Chayka. He could be one of these brilliant 20 something entrepreneurs we see in the tech sector for example. They handle global multi billion dollar companies. Not sure how that works in an old boys club GM meeting? Likely need another "hockey guy" to assist him with some of the business.
 

ClassLessCoyote

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Jun 10, 2009
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I get there's no democracy in the private entity, but is there anything that can be done by the NHL to stop such a hire? I would have to think there would be seeing that the leagues name is all over this team.
 

KG

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Sep 23, 2010
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XX is right that the NHL is still an old boys club. Maloney very much a good old boy. Chayka is very new. He has credentials. Doesn't have much experience. Experience and tenure are almost always valued above all else in organizations. Not saying he can't do the job, but agree he'd have a bit of a mountain to climb. Agents, players, may take a advantage.

The biggest advantage for analytics for my money will be managing the salary cap and measuring the effectivemess of fringe players.
 

kihekah19*

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Oct 25, 2010
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Well this is quite the situation isn't it?

Lot of good posts herein. Lots of unknowns as well.

IMO:

The GM/Coah has never worked and won't ever work. I don't know if this would be some pathetic attempt to disguise that or not???

Owners who meddle with hockey ops beyond personnel placement doesn't work either.

Based on the assumption that Chayka will be the ..... Man?

I know quite a few folks in the car business that have high hockey IQ's (common post career biz) that would most likely be far superior negotiators - this concerns me. The question is should it? It may just mean that they have no intention of making deals with other clubs. Like most things, this would have pros and cons, it would mean we have faith in our depth and don't intent mess with that. Of course it could mean a host of other things, like the depth will be kept in the deep and we're looking to pick up scraps based on analytics. Or it may mean that players are put on two ways and brought up based on need and performance, as determined by analytics.

All in all, I don't know what the hell theymcould be doing here, or how they expect this to work. I as always choose to remain optimistic, but there's no denying if this comes to fruition it's one of the most questionable management decisions I can remember.

Note: I've most likely cut this short - the emotion of the infusion of Kate Smith singing "God Bless America" during the mid verse of the live performance, who's performer was wearing a Snider jersey in honor of Ed Snider derailed my thoughts.
 

Jakey53

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Aug 27, 2011
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Well this is quite the situation isn't it?

Lot of good posts herein. Lots of unknowns as well.

IMO:

The GM/Coah has never worked and won't ever work. I don't know if this would be some pathetic attempt to disguise that or not???

Owners who meddle with hockey ops beyond personnel placement doesn't work either.

Based on the assumption that Chayka will be the ..... Man?

I know quite a few folks in the car business that have high hockey IQ's (common post career biz) that would most likely be far superior negotiators - this concerns me. The question is should it? It may just mean that they have no intention of making deals with other clubs. Like most things, this would have pros and cons, it would mean we have faith in our depth and don't intent mess with that. Of course it could mean a host of other things, like the depth will be kept in the deep and we're looking to pick up scraps based on analytics. Or it may mean that players are put on two ways and brought up based on need and performance, as determined by analytics.

All in all, I don't know what the hell theymcould be doing here, or how they expect this to work. I as always choose to remain optimistic, but there's no denying if this comes to fruition it's one of the most questionable management decisions I can remember.

Note: I've most likely cut this short - the emotion of the infusion of Kate Smith singing "God Bless America" during the mid verse of the live performance, who's performer was wearing a Snider jersey in honor of Ed Snider derailed my thoughts.

I agree. If he is the choice it would be a head scratcher.
 

cactus shake

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Oct 22, 2013
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Yeah I surprisingly know nothing about what it takes to be a GM, but have always assumed it's as much about relationships as anything else. When you hear GMs in the wake of the Dougie Hamilton trade complain about not being made aware he was even being shopped, it seems like half the battle when it comes to trading is making sure you're the one on the other end of the phone when another GM needs to make a move. Feels like there's no way to get around having experience in that kind of environment, learning from other GMs and dealing and building relationships with other assistant GMs who will also one day be promoted. Same goes for dealing with agents, players and owners. Tippett and Chayka may have the greatest plans for the team known to man, but you'd be worried about their effectiveness in executing them unless some experienced guys are placed around them, like ducky said. And I agree with the Dubas comparison - there's a guy with CHL experience who the Leafs see fit to insulate for a few years with old hands.

I'm sure it's just messageboard shorthand, but reducing Chayka's current experience to just 'spreadsheets' can't be fair. His analytics company was consultancy work with teams and players before even joining the Yotes. And I seem to remember he said his role with the team last year would be more working with coaches (as well as just giving general info for the draft). Which bodes well for having a singular vision with Tippett, but does nothing to the concerns about having someone able to override Tip, or any of the other good points raised here.
 

kihekah19*

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Oct 25, 2010
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Phoenix, Arizona
I'm sure it's just messageboard shorthand, but reducing Chayka's current experience to just 'spreadsheets' can't be fair. His analytics company was consultancy work with teams and players before even joining the Yotes. .

This is an EXCELLENT point and while it doesn't mean that he can negotiate, it does imply that he's not just some snot nosed kid to be taken advantage of, from the perspective of other teams.
 

kihekah19*

Registered User
Oct 25, 2010
6,016
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Phoenix, Arizona
@ cactus shake:

I gave you credit for and posted

"I'm sure it's just messageboard shorthand, but reducing Chayka's current experience to just 'spreadsheets' can't be fair. His analytics company was consultancy work with teams and players before even joining the Yotes. And I seem to remember he said his role with the team last year would be more working with coaches (as well as just giving general info for the draft). Which bodes well for having a singular vision with Tippett, but does nothing to the concerns about having someone able to override Tip, or any of the other good points raised here."

As I felt it was Perrinent to a discussion at BOH
 

PhoPhan

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Feb 27, 2002
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There's been a trend the last few years of depriving the GM of his power. In the past, the GM was always the guy at the top of the shot-calling pyramid (but for the occasional overly involved owner), but you're seeing more teams experiment with different executive hierarchies and structures. In places like Colorado, Toronto, and Calgary, for example, you don't see that omnipotent GM ruling unilaterally.

If the Coyotes name Chayka their GM, it's clear he wasn't their first choice. Their other pursuits may or may not have turned down the opportunity because they wouldn't have had as much power, and I imagine the resulting structure of the front office would be different depending on the experience and philosophy of whoever becomes general manager, but if Chayka is the guy, it's because the decision-making, negotiations, etc. will be spread out.

The fears about Tippett having a larger say in management are certainly founded, but my worry goes beyond that. I'm as skeptical about his talent evaluation and team-building approach as anyone, but if he has a more hands-on role in management, he'll be less focused on coaching. Whatever you think about his coaching ability, it's definitely going to suffer if he spreads his attention more thinly into other areas, and I don't really trust the rest of the staff to pick up the slack. Today, the Coyotes have one of the best coaches in the league. A move like this could negatively affect both their management and their coaching.

But maybe this is the Coyotes taking the long view after all. Maybe Chayka is just a patsy to hold down the fort until Tippett transitions completely into a GM role, letting Tip time develop Newell Brown into a head coach in the meantime.
 

KG

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Sep 23, 2010
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According to Craig Morgan, Newell is 'immensely' popular with the players.
 

cobra427

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May 6, 2012
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There are plenty of objective well thought out posts on this subject along with the usual "end of the world" posts. Let's wait and see if he is actually named the GM first, before drawing conclusions.

Regardless of who the GM is, I believe the Coyotes are transitioning to a different management style, one that involves more collective input from many people, not just a GM to call all the shots. The ownership group has vast business experience and will have or hire staff capable of negotiating contracts if the GM is not a skilled or experienced negotiator. They will have a process in place for every signing, trade, draft pick, etc...., rather then, OK Don/next GM, whatever you think is best.

My gut tells me this is about having a process in place more so then a new GM or Tip calling the shots. Lets see how it plays out.
 

WrinkledPossum

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Apr 23, 2016
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There are plenty of objective well thought out posts on this subject along with the usual "end of the world" posts. Let's wait and see if he is actually named the GM first, before drawing conclusions.

Regardless of who the GM is, I believe the Coyotes are transitioning to a different management style, one that involves more collective input from many people, not just a GM to call all the shots. The ownership group has vast business experience and will have or hire staff capable of negotiating contracts if the GM is not a skilled or experienced negotiator. They will have a process in place for every signing, trade, draft pick, etc...., rather then, OK Don/next GM, whatever you think is best.

My gut tells me this is about having a process in place more so then a new GM or Tip calling the shots. Lets see how it plays out.

This. I also think they're going to have a different mgmt set up. If Chayka is GM I'd bet they would also hire one or more very qualified assistant GMs. Maybe Jackson with another title added and a pay raise. Or maybe they'll hire someone to be in the Burke/Linden/Shanahan role.

On the subject of Chayka not being able to handle trade negotiations, not being in the "ol boys club" He has worked with NHL teams for years, he likely has a very positive relationship with many GMs. And someone who is that successful at 27 certainly isn't a pushover. Dubas in Toronto is also the one who handles trade calls for them, so someone young in that role wouldn't exactly be new to the NHL.
 

ClassLessCoyote

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Jun 10, 2009
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With the Stars heading to next round, we don't have to worry about Les Jackson coming here for the time being.
 

Jakey53

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Aug 27, 2011
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There are plenty of objective well thought out posts on this subject along with the usual "end of the world" posts. Let's wait and see if he is actually named the GM first, before drawing conclusions.

Regardless of who the GM is, I believe the Coyotes are transitioning to a different management style, one that involves more collective input from many people, not just a GM to call all the shots. The ownership group has vast business experience and will have or hire staff capable of negotiating contracts if the GM is not a skilled or experienced negotiator. They will have a process in place for every signing, trade, draft pick, etc...., rather then, OK Don/next GM, whatever you think is best.

My gut tells me this is about having a process in place more so then a new GM or Tip calling the shots. Lets see how it plays out.

You may be right. Years ago the GM was also the coach. Now, everything is just too complex you need people who are experts in their field, like doctors are today. I don't think the titles mean as much today as yesterday. It amazes me how much technology has changed the way hockey organizations, and probably sports in general, run their businesses. Everything is much more in depth than even a few years ago. If you can't adapt, you are left behind.
 

hbk

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Put it this way. At U18s for Leafs are Mark Hunter, Brendan Shanahan, and Lou Lammerello. Who's our equivalent?
 

Jakey53

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Put it this way. At U18s for Leafs are Mark Hunter, Brendan Shanahan, and Lou Lammerello. Who's our equivalent?

Is that really fair? The richest team in hockey, and you're comparing them to us?
 

Kaizen

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Sep 30, 2004
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But maybe this is the Coyotes taking the long view after all. Maybe Chayka is just a patsy to hold down the fort until Tippett transitions completely into a GM role, letting Tip time develop Newell Brown into a head coach in the meantime.



Interesting thought Pho - I usually think outside the box and consider some off the wall alternatives but I must admit this one had not occurred to me.
 

hbk

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Is that really fair? The richest team in hockey, and you're comparing them to us?

The point is they have 3 hockey people ahead of their Analytics GM of the future. We need something to support the guy. Throwing him to the wolves is a recipe in disaster. If Tippett occupies one of those slots (and he is) we need at least one other person to support this new structure.
 

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