Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part III (Updates in First Post)

[flyfysher]

Yeah. I'm still at "4" for him, but it really is difficult to evaluate GMs. Even the best ones are capable of mind-blowingly stupid decisions.

Where would you rank Sakic as a GM at this moment? Top 5? Top 10? I think Sakic has really done a lot for the organization. I don't have a deep knowledgeable about a lot of other organizations but I'd rate him within the top 5 GMs in terms of what he has accomplished at this moment.

I'm just relieved the Avs didn't hire Dubas.

 

[Kaizer]

1. You can't explain away all those bad moves and pin them on Roy.

But somehow all these bad things almost stopped happening after Roy left the front office.

 

[Foxtail]

But somehow all these bad things almost stopped happening after Roy left the front office.

 

[Foppa2118]

But somehow all these bad things almost stopped happening after Roy left the front office.

Or Sakic learned from his own mistakes, like all new GM's do.

Like finally realizing he wasn't going to fix the blueline through the draft and UFA, and that he needed to sacrifice is depth at forward in trade for defenseman. Otherwise we'd probably still have Duchene and not Girard and Byram.

The bad moves didn't stop with Roy either. Wiercioch, Colborne, Tyutin, and Yakupov can attest to that, and potentially Cole, Nichuskin, and Burakovsky too.

 

[Pokecheque]

Where would you rank Sakic as a GM at this moment? Top 5? Top 10? I think Sakic has really done a lot for the organization. I don't have a deep knowledgeable about a lot of other organizations but I'd rate him within the top 5 GMs in terms of what he has accomplished at this moment.

I'm just relieved the Avs didn't hire Dubas.

I'd rank him highly. There are so many aspects to the job, and some GMs are better at certain ones than others. For instance, David Poile is the unmitigated master at getting RFAs to sign value contracts. Obviously that's not a skill Kyle Dubas possesses, but that doesn't necessarily make Poile superior to Dubas. Bob Murray has somehow put together a great draft/development system, but is horrible at just about everything else. Sakic still needs to work on the drafting and developing--it's not good enough yet. And again, I still don't know if Doug Armstrong really is a good GM even though pretty much every major and minor move he did in the 2018 offseason paid off with a Stanley Cup win.

I suppose I'd put guys like Yzerman, Poile, Sakic, Kekalainen, and yes, Dubas, near the top. I'd most definitely put Dorion (even though the guy drafts well), Benning, and Murray near the bottom. And I don't

 

[Pokecheque]

But somehow all these bad things almost stopped happening after Roy left the front office.

I don't want to uncork this debate again full throttle, but a brief summary of my thoughts were and still are that it wasn't necessarily Roy's front office competence or any lack thereof that was the problem so much as the weird arrangement between him and Sakic that was doomed from the start.

There's only two moves I pin on Roy and only Roy: Signing Francois Beauchemin and botching things completely with Will Butcher. And before anyone says anything about the latter, yes, I realize, in the long run, it was not a huge loss. But it was still handled poorly and a solid asset was lost for nothing because of it. Any other misfires could be blamed on both guys, and yes, Sakic made some mistakes on his very own. What's important is that Sakic learned from said mistakes, not really who committed them.

The other thing I always say is that I miss Patrick Roy in the NHL and hope someday he gets a real shot at running a franchise...but I also think he will fail at it.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Rating Sakic top-10 is too high. He hasn't won anything yet. Yes, he has made potential roster but that's about it for now. I hope we do well this season.

 

[Pokecheque]

Rating Sakic top-10 is too high. He hasn't won anything yet. Yes, he has made potential roster but that's about it for now. I hope we do well this season.

Not that I disagree but I’m curious as to who your top ten is

 

[Hasbro]

Three things:
1. You can't explain away all those bad moves and pin them on Roy.
2. Even if you can, if that was the impetus behind said moves, that makes them even worse.
3. You definitely can't pin #4 on Roy because he wasn't with the organization when Sakic made those moves.

He's been on a pretty good streak since Duchene, so i don't see the point in rehashing moot deals that have been long since overcome.

 

[Hasbro]

This team had Guenin, Holden and Zanon on its blue line a few years ago. Consider that change.

 

[forsbergavs32]

Or Sakic learned from his own mistakes, like all new GM's do.

Like finally realizing he wasn't going to fix the blueline through the draft and UFA, and that he needed to sacrifice is depth at forward in trade for defenseman. Otherwise we'd probably still have Duchene and not Girard and Byram.

The bad moves didn't stop with Roy either. Wiercioch, Colborne, Tyutin, and Yakupov can attest to that, and potentially Cole, Nichuskin, and Burakovsky too.

The truth likely lies somewhere in the middle. Sakic obviously has learned from his rookie mistakes but at the same time, things began being rebuilt properly once Roy was cut out of the decisions towards the end of his time here. Roy wanted to win now and it showed, but the quick turnaround happened once Sakic took over completely after he learned from his mistakes.

With the mentioned moves, Wiercioch, Colborne and Tyutin were basically stopgaps/warm bodies while Sakic retooled. Yakupov was hope to get something out of a former first overall pick which cost the team nothing as it was a cheap 1 year deal. Nichushkin is the same sort of deal that doesn’t hurt the team in any way, they will see if he can be a solid bottom 6 guy and if I doesn’t work out he can be waived and buried for the year. These aren’t really bad moves IMO, they aren’t good moves either but they were moves to fill out a bad roster or reclamation projects that didn’t hurt the team.

I will give you Cole and Bura though, those do have potential to be bad if Cole doesnt come back from surgery the same (he has been decent since being here though other than dumb penalties) and Bura has the potential to be awful for us if he doesn’t put up numbers, that’s the one I’m worried about since Sakic way overpaid for him.

Overall I think Sakic has done great though, even if he does make mistakes still. He’s learned a lot since he first started and his patient approach works really well to get things done at a fair cost in trades and contracts.

 

[klozge]

The truth likely lies somewhere in the middle.

The truth is Sakic is a lucky magician with a great vision for this team.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

He's not lucky. He's crafty.

 

[Auston mcdavid]

Do think sakic can be as good a gm as yzerman and lamirello with the way he built his team and drafted his team ?

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Do think sakic can be as good a gm as yzerman and lamirello with the way he built his team and drafted his team ?

What has Yzerman won as a GM?

 

[Hasbro]

Do think sakic can be as good a gm as yzerman and lamirello with the way he built his team and drafted his team ?

As good as Lou? Not allowing his players looking like beatnicks with scruffy hair and uniform numbers over 30!

 

[Auston mcdavid]

I mean in terms of team building is sakic as good as lamirello or yzerman love to hear your thoughts on that

 

[Pokecheque]

Yzerman deserves credit. Inherited an absolute mess of a team with bad contracts galore and turned everything around.

Obviously winning Cups matters but I think people put way too much stock into it. Randy Carlyle won a Cup, but you're never going to convince me he was a good coach. And while Doug Armstrong is better than I gave him credit for, I still don't think he's a "great" GM.

Lou Lamoriello was the best GM of the Dead Puck Era hands down, but he hasn't been so great since the cap was instituted.

 

[MarkT]

It's so hard to rate and compare GMs, because their moves often can't be fairly evaluated until years down the line. Too often they inherent good or bad players, good or bad contract situations, good or bad coaching staffs or scouting staffs or ownership. It's really difficult to tell how much of a team's success is due to the GM until they've been in charge for a long time.

 

[flyfysher]

7-0-1!

Hey Avs fans, how do you like me now as GM and what I have done with the club?

Signed Joe Sakic

5+++++++++

 

[cannucky]

Barrie and Kerplunk for Nazty and Rosen ....enough said ? Barrie is featured in everybody's highlight reel this year ...he's the guy giving up the puck at the blue line and its his face in the background when the opponent scores his highlight reel break away goal .

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Was it Sakic that traded Bigras for Graves? That turned-out to be a nice non-flashy but profitable move.

 

[Foppa2118]

 

[AllAboutAvs]

A lot of praise has gone Sakic's way for the guys he has brought in last offseason to solve the secondary scoring issue. but IMO not enough praise is given to the pro scouts for identifying these guys as a solution. Kadri was a no-brainer but guys like Bura, Donskoi, Bellemarre and even Nichuskin (even though he is not producing) are all filling important holes on this team during this "avalanche" of injuries. Hats off to the pro scouts. They have been a lot better the past few years. Maybe this is due to better guidelines from the GM but they still needed to identify the right guy so well done.

 

[Pokecheque]

He addressed just about every need the team had this offseason.

1. Viable 2C with two-way ability.
2. More grit in the lineup that doesn't negate skill.
3. More defensive ability up front.
4. Guys who can win a f***ing faceoff once in a while.

And he gave a legit swing at the top free agent available.