GDT: Jim's Coaching Conundrum Part XII | Jeremiah Johnston a top target

[JTG]

Too bad we don't have Morrow. He and DP would probably have their growth at the NHL level accelerated working under their old coach.

Wilson seems like the safer hire. Johnston seems more like the boom or bust guy. I kind of lean toward taking a chance on the boom or bust guy. We already know what Wilson is. He's a decent coach but nothing special. Maybe Johnston is special or maybe he isn't but I like taking that chance.

My thing the whole time with this has been the inexperience, and being able to handle a room of stars. A guy with his first head coaching gig...can he come in and do that? I'm very torn as to what I want to see, as I love the thought of Johnston, but something in my gut tells me there needs to be some experience brought on board.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Schoenfeld attacks Despres in the runway about his eating habits, leading to the rest of the defense refusing to dress the following game in protest.

Finally, it's Barry Goers' time to shine.

 

[displacedpensfan]

Wonder what Jim Playfair's doing these days.

He's Dave Tippett's assistant in Phoenix and supposedly rumored to be the heir apparent.

 

[Waffle Fries]

My thing the whole time with this has been the inexperience, and being able to handle a room of stars. A guy with his first head coaching gig...can he come in and do that? I'm very torn as to what I want to see, as I love the thought of Johnston, but something in my gut tells me there needs to be some experience brought on board.

Maybe you find that experience with the assistants. Johnston was an assistant coach for Team Canada at the '98 Olympics. It's not the same as being the head coach, but he does have experience coaching the best player in the history of the game in some capacity. Granted the team didn't do as well as expected

To be honest though, I don't think Sid and Geno are going to give the new guy (no matter who it is) a hard time at all. They want to win more than anything.

 

[KIRK]

I like Ron Wilson of the two. Good, strong name. No letters extraneous to the pronunciation. American name.

Curiously, his name has the same number of first and last letters as the previous coach, who also had a good, strong American name.

 

[KIRK]

Yah but Wilson is a whiny ***** with a loser attitude IMO. He's literally at the bottom of my list among experienced coaches.

Johnston is the path to the Penguin Spirit. Smoke um victory pipe with The People.

**** that, Wilson will set the tone for how the Pens play mind games against the other teams stars . . .



And, what wouldn't you give to see this stuff with Rossi . . .



http://torontosportsmedia.com/toronto-maple-leafs-hockey/ron-wilson-takes-howard-berger/7207

“You ask me this every day Howard,” he said. “It’s like water boarding or Chinese water torture until I crack. I’m not going to crack, I want to win every game. So it does get frustrating when you don’t win. We should send you to Guantanamo, we’d solve all the issues that we had."

****, seeing Wilson do that to Rossi might make the other 'small' concerns worth it . . .

 

[KIRK]

What about the time in 2000 when he said his Caps would beat the Pens no matter where they played? They lost 7-0 at home in game one.

I hated that smug guy. Good coach, and I'm sure my perception is skewed, but I can't believe we're to the point of ogling Ron Wilson.

Though still better than that partyboy Todd Nelson. I don't trust a guy with such a healthy tan.

I remember that game. I lived in Philly at the time. I was listening to sports radio the following afternoon, and they had a DC guy on to talk post NFL draft and football in general.

And, mid sentence, about a minute into a conversation, the guy from DC said something like 'oh, hold on a second, the Penguins just scored again on the Capitals'

 

[KIRK]

Maybe you find that experience with the assistants. Johnston was an assistant coach for Team Canada at the '98 Olympics. It's not the same as being the head coach, but he does have experience coaching the best player in the history of the game in some capacity. Granted the team didn't do as well as expected

To be honest though, I don't think Sid and Geno are going to give the new guy (no matter who it is) a hard time at all. They want to win more than anything.

Agreed.

As long as the guy thinks that X's and O's are for something other than playing tic-tac-toe, they're going to give the guy a chance.

And, honestly, it could be anyone. I may have an opinion on the eventual hire, but, like the JR hire (I wanted Gorton), none of this matters until April.

This isn't like last year, where you could look at something and say the pattern is repeating itself and making an educated guess about the impending train wreck.

There's no history to draw upon, not for this year.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Curiously, his name has the same number of first and last letters as the previous coach, who also had a good, strong American name.

I would not consider Bylsma a good, strong American name. Very Dutch.

 

[KIRK]

I would not consider Bylsma a good, strong American name. Very Dutch.

Dutch American

Good lord, you Wilson lovers. This is YOUR country, and the rest of us ethnics, like the Dutch Americans, are just interlopers.

 

[Captain Hook]

Too bad we don't have Morrow. He and DP would probably have their growth at the NHL level accelerated working under their old coach.

True. Both players fit what Johnston likes to do. Although we have plenty of other PMD's that do too.

My thing the whole time with this has been the inexperience, and being able to handle a room of stars. A guy with his first head coaching gig...can he come in and do that? I'm very torn as to what I want to see, as I love the thought of Johnston, but something in my gut tells me there needs to be some experience brought on board.

It's a fair and valid concern. I just looked at the candidates a long time ago and realized we weren't going to get both a great X's and O's guy and a guy with experience, presence, ability to handle stars etc . Great all around coaches like that are few and far between.

The number one thing I want is an X's and O's guy. I'm tired of watching a team that seemingly has no answers or adjustments once the other team figures them out. I'd love an X's and O's guy like Johnston as the HC and Tocchet as one of the assistants. I think Tocchet has that presence and bad cop personality but has enough respect from the players to pull off being that way with them.

 

[KIRK]

True. Both players fit what Johnston likes to do. Although we have plenty of other PMD's that do too.



It's a fair and valid concern. I just looked at the candidates a long time ago and realized we weren't going to get both a great X's and O's guy and a guy with experience, presence, ability to handle stars etc . Great all around coaches like that are few and far between.

The number one thing I want is an X's and O's guy. I'm tired of watching a team that seemingly has no answers or adjustments once the other team figures them out. I'd love an X's and O's guy like Johnston as the HC and Tocchet as one of the assistants. I think Tocchet has that presence and bad cop personality but has enough respect from the players to pull off being that way with them.

I'm with you. I think ultimately what gets to Sid and Geno isn't being their buddy or being a bad cop. It's them feeling or not feeling like they are put into a position to succeed. As long as they believe that, then the coach has their attention. Once they stop believing that permanently, then it doesn't matter what the coach's demeanor is or how many NHL games he's coached. As much as anything, I too think it's an X's and O's thing (also things like bench management, etc . . . experience may suggest a level of success is relatively more certain, but it is not a precondition in a situation like this).

 

[Giskard]

Mike Johnston don't even have a Wikipedia page

 

[deakka]

I wonder of we will se a big amount of trades league wide during the Draft this year.

The new FA format should contribute in making it so.
Example: let's say we have a mutual deal with Vanek by tomorrow. Then we could make Neal available for a trade. That would be maximising the assets!
It would essentially be neal for vanek+what neal brings back in a trade.

Not saying we want Vanek or that he an neal are equally good etc. It was just an example.

 

[KIRK]

I wonder of we will se a big amount of trades league wide during the Draft this year.

The new FA format should contribute in making it so.
Example: let's say we have a mutual deal with Vanek by tomorrow. Then we could make Neal available for a trade. That would be maximising the assets!
It would essentially be neal for vanek+what neal brings back in a trade.

Not saying we want Vanek or that he an neal are equally good etc. It was just an example.

You are not allowed to discuss any terms of a deal during the interview period.

EDIT: Just a thought. JR said Nisky won't be back. Nisky is going to 'interview' with other teams. Let's say a team that didn't think it had a great chance has a great interview. Wouldn't they still want to trade for his rights? Heck, with the interview process, where teams can see how interested Nisky may be and who the competition is, I could see his rights maybe having more value than they did before the introduction of the interview process. Just saying this, because there were some people here complaining about JR 'devaluing' Nisky's rights by saying he won't be back. Personally, I think his comments had no bearing. And, I'm thinking, a team like Edmonton, which probably will think no chance, if they get a feel that he really could sign there if they stepped up huge, couldn't you see them trading for his rights where before this whole interview process they might not have? Anyway, just realized how the interview process could lead to enhanced trade values for some players' rights and why JR saying Nisky won't be back means nothing in terms of the trade value of said rights.

 

[deakka]

You are not allowed to discuss any terms of a deal during the interview process.

I'm sure there are ways around that .

Team to agent : hypothetical, what would your asking price and term for your client?
Agent: x times x
Team: so you are saying if we offered what you're asking, your client would love to play on our team?
Agent: he'd be thrilled.
Team: ok, you'll hear from us when FA starts.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Mike Johnston don't even have a Wikipedia page

That explains Rossi not knowing how hold Johnston is.

I'm sure there are ways around that .

Team to agent : hypothetical, what would your asking price and term for your client?
Agent: x times x
Team: so you are saying if we offered what you're asking, your client would love to play on our team?
Agent: he'd be thrilled.
Team: ok, you'll hear from us when FA starts.

Yeah, I doubt they're not getting around that rule to a fair degree.

 

[deakka]

Read a rumour (not reliable source) saying we have offer of Sutter, Pouliot, 1st for Kesler. That return would make me sick to my stomach. Kesler isn't exactly getting better. And we need pouliot since he's out only legit PP wizard in the while organisation.

 

[KIRK]

I'm sure there are ways around that .

Team to agent : hypothetical, what would your asking price and term for your client?
Agent: x times x
Team: so you are saying if we offered what you're asking, your client would love to play on our team?
Agent: he'd be thrilled.
Team: ok, you'll hear from us when FA starts.

Actually, I need to correct myself. The rule was NO discussions about a contract. Apparently, that was changed last week:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/263862641.html

In the June 18 memo (read over the phone to me by an agent), the league states, “After discussions with a number of general managers, we have revised and hopefully clarified with regard to last summer the permissible parameters of player contract and communication during the applicable interview periods.

“Please be advised that clubs are permitted to discuss the potential interest in as well as general parameters of a potential future contractual relationship with another club’s pending RFA or UFA during the applicable interview periods. The clubs may not enter any agreements or make any binding offers, promises, … oral or written concerning the terms of a potential SPC (standard players contract) with another club’s pending RFA or UFA.”

So in other words, teams and agents can now discuss the general parameters of a deal, as in, “I’ll be looking for a seven-year deal at around $5 million annually,” etc., meaning now players and agents at least know where each other is at heading into July 1 and know who’s in the game and who isn’t.

Apologies for the error.

EDIT: This does support my point though. Edmonton, for example, wouldn't give squat for Nisky's rights under old circumstances, because there's so little chance he'd sign. BUT, imagine if he talked to them and they really got on and his agent set parameters of the overpayment it would take to get him to Edmonton. Don't you think Edmonton might trade a pick to get his rights then, to immediately commence with contract negotiations? Say a 4th that becomes a 3rd if he signs? In THAT scenario, doesn't JR saying 'I don't think he'll be back' invite other teams (and Nisky) to do just that?

That explains Rossi not knowing how hold Johnston is.




Yeah, I doubt they're not getting around that rule to a fair degree.

See above. You don't have to get around the rule. You can't make a deal. But, it sure sounds like you can do anything but for all intents and purposes.

EDIT: Here's an article from Sportsnet, http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/how-nhl-interview-period-improves-free-agency/

 

[cheesedanish87]

https://twitter.com/RealKyper/status/481755884293341184

Sounds like dinner btw @pdxwinterhawks Mike Johnston and @Penguins GM Jim Rutherford went really well last nite. I anticipate this hire.

Seems like its going to be Johnston, but it also seemed like it was going to be Peters and then Desjardins last week.

If it is Johnston at least we will have entertaining hockey to watch all year.

 

[Cardboard Orpik]

Beaten like a rented mule.

 

[Captain Hook]

https://twitter.com/RealKyper/status/481755884293341184

Sounds like dinner btw @pdxwinterhawks Mike Johnston and @Penguins GM Jim Rutherford went really well last nite. I anticipate this hire.

Seems like its going to be Johnston, but it also seemed like it was going to be Peters and then Desjardins last week.

If it is Johnston at least we will have entertaining hockey to watch all year.

Difference being the meeting actually went well. It really didn't go well with Desjardins. It probably went well with Peters but he got a better or quicker offer from Carolina. Pens are the only NHL opening right now though. No one is going to swoop in and steal Johnston away so it's hard to imagine a deal not getting done with him if the reports of the meeting going well are true.

 

[wej20]

https://twitter.com/RealKyper/status/481755884293341184

Sounds like dinner btw @pdxwinterhawks Mike Johnston and @Penguins GM Jim Rutherford went really well last nite. I anticipate this hire.

Seems like its going to be Johnston, but it also seemed like it was going to be Peters and then Desjardins last week.

If it is Johnston at least we will have entertaining hockey to watch all year.

how did Johnston order his steak? that's what his hiring hinges on for me.

 

[Get To Our Game]

Extra well-done with ketchup.

 

[cheesedanish87]

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...f-Penguins-coaching-list/stories/201406250127

Rutherford did not dispute that the Penguins' next coach might not be the only one who has input on the makeup of his staff.

"We have to see first who the new person is and what his needs are and what direction he wants to go," he said. "Then, he and I will work together."

JR basically admitting he will have a big say as far as assistant coaches, which is a bad move IMO, let the coach pick his own staff.