Jim Rutherford Needs to Go

[Andy99]

You forget, this wasn't the first time the Pens have signed or added tough guys, its been a thing before JR as well. It's JR getting the blame for this, but I guarantee the players wanted it and JR obliged and quickly realized, with Sullivan, that it hindered team identity a ton.

Because are you going to sit here and say JR is to blame for Laraque, Andre Roy and Godard?

And those incidents might be after or before, doesn't matter, Pens were starting to get worn down and the players felt they needed help, most likely Sid & Geno, and the GM obliged like Shero did in the past. It's odd how Shero never went and got a goon for the Devils, because no one asked for one.

I remember some talk about how the Stars on the team felt safer knowing they had an enforcer like those mentioned, on the roster, unless I am remembering wrong.

I do think the players wanted an enforcer type, and most importantly Mario...still doesn’t excuse the extent he took to change direction...

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I do think the players wanted an enforcer type, and most importantly Mario...still doesn’t excuse the extent he took to change direction...

Yeah, sure, it doesn't excuse it. But it also doesn't excuse the people to latch on to that and not also speak about the fact that he changed that really quickly. Pens won the back to backs 2 seasons ago, there's a good chance this year to change that short drought.

It wasn't just him that needed to change. If people are going to sit here and say the coaching staff was perfect in those 2 years too, they are more out to lunch than anyone. The reason the Pens are fantastic this year is a deep realization from the last few seasons hitting them. The defensive coaching has improved, the constant juggling of wingers and players has stopped, the team is playing the transition game better and the coaching has been fantastic. Sullivan, Martin, and Gonchar have done an amazing job of also course correcting the same way JR has with helping them get the guys to play to their identity.

Better GM's have done far worse than JR's brain farts in the 2yrs before this season. And some of those, can't claim or will never claim the back 2 backs in a Salary Capped Era.

That's the crazy part to me. It was 2yrs ago and people act like he squandered this team for like 7+ seasons after a cup like Shero did. He saw his team wanted more toughness, added it, regretted it and admitted it wasn't the right mix, started to change it, meanwhile the coaching was also showing warts, needed some hard realizations, took 2 seasons to really drive that home and has also changed.

Enjoy it for what it f***ing is.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

He signed Jack Johnson.

He “built” the team? The team had two generational centers, a 1D and two 1Gs! That’s the hard part.

That being written, I feel a little foolish whenever I see this thread bumped.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

You don't win Cups without a good roster though. JR came in and made mistakes. Then he fixed them which lead to the two Cups. Then he made some more mistakes. Now he's done a hell of a job fixing them again.

Hard to believe you are a Pens fan after reading this post. Do you even watch the games? You stated that Rutherford had a good roster when he took the job then made some mistakes then fixed his own mistakes to win the two Cups. That is absolutely bull crap.

When Rutherford took over as the GM the team was old and slow around the core. Many experts said the time of Pens as top contenders was over. With only a one year transition season Rutherford turned the team into back to back Cup Champs. Rutherford was head cuffed with some bad contracts and somehow still pulled of the great trades to build a champion like getting Daley for Scuderi, Kessel for a steal, Hornqvist for Neal, Bonino for Sutter, and so many more.

Really for you own sake please stop defending wanting to get rid of Rutherford. People need to just admit when they are wrong and move on. This thread should of been taken down a long time ago. If some posters don't know when to admit mistakes the mods should help them out and save them some embarrassment and close this thread. It is honestly as bad as if we had a trade Crosby thread.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

He signed Jack Johnson.

He “built” the team? The team had two generational centers, a 1D and two 1Gs! That’s the hard part.

That being written, I feel a little foolish whenever I see this thread bumped.

The team had all those parts for 5 years of playoff outs before he was hired. The team was wasting prime years of our core players thanks to Shero. So while Rutherford had a good core to build around it was obvious we needed a change. Adding Kessel, Hornqvist, Bonino, Daley, Hagelin, Cole, and so many others helped turn them into back to back Cup Champs which was the first team to do it of the cap era.

As for as JJ signing it was not as bad as people cried about. First 25 games last season he was a tire fire. After that JJ played pretty well considering he was forced into playing his off side for the vast majority of the season and also having to play big minutes due to injuries. This year JJ has played well worth his contract now that he is on his playing LD. Even now he is keeping the defense afloat with Dumoulin out. It is nice to have a veteran defenseman that can play on the top line due to injuries. Not his best signing for sure but this is the JJ Rutherford expected when he signed him to that deal. $3.25 million cap hit is not much these days for a veteran defenseman. Any defenseman not on an entry level contract that is a top 4 type defenseman gets $4+ million a year these days.

 

[Freeptop]

He signed Jack Johnson.

He “built” the team? The team had two generational centers, a 1D and two 1Gs! That’s the hard part.

That being written, I feel a little foolish whenever I see this thread bumped.

What, was JR not supposed to keep those players? He identified the core, and built around them.

Yes, having a solid core is important, but Shero had the same core, and only won the Cup in '09. You can't win the Cup with just 5 players.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

He signed Jack Johnson.

He “built” the team? The team had two generational centers, a 1D and two 1Gs! That’s the hard part.

That being written, I feel a little foolish whenever I see this thread bumped.

Shero had two generational centers, 2 #1 Ds, a first overall pick as a his goalie, a second overall pick as his third f***ing center, and he shit the bed over and over again.

JR came into a big ass mess with the Pens floundering for five years, and he was the one that rebuilt the team and helped cement Crosby and Malkin’s legacies.

I don’t get why people can’t understand what JR did and give him credit.

 

[jjp66]

any non-Penguins fan viewing this thread will think what a bunch of entitled, spoiled rotten fans a lot of you are. the guy came in and made a string of great moves which brought us back-to-back Cups. after years of disappointment and wasted away years, we finally witnessed the Crosby-Malkin era reach their full potential. it was literally what we had all been hoping for and expecting since 2009. back-to-back cups, losing game 6 to the eventual Cup champs, a disappointing season where everyone lost their way a bit, and now a team that looks like one of the top couple teams in the league.. not a bad job. no GM is perfect, and neither is JR. it's impossible to maintain a 1000% batting average, which seemed to be the case in his first couple years here. but, corrections have since been made, and this team looks to be back on the right track. seriously, what else do you want? teams can't make Cup runs every single year.. this isn't the NBA.. it's probably literally physically impossible when you factor in the grueling fatigue aspect of a single long Cup run.

if you're all so disappointed, i hear Shero is looking for a job.. i'm sure he can convince his buddy Dan to give it another go too.

 

[Darren McCord]

We laugh about this but he was already changing the roster long before this hit in the 2018 POs...not re-signing Cup winning players after the 2017 Cup, the Reaves trade, all happened before Wilson...teams were beating the Pens up during the Cup runs and it wasn’t Wilson...so he decided to take action ... to the detriment of any chance of winning again...

The second hit was in 2017.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Shero had two generational centers, 2 #1 Ds, a first overall pick as a his goalie, a second overall pick as his third ****ing center, and he **** the bed over and over again.

JR came into a big ass mess with the Pens floundering for five years, and he was the one that rebuilt the team and helped cement Crosby and Malkin’s legacies.

I don’t get why people can’t understand what JR did and give him credit.

Because it doesn't fit the Jack Johnson sucks narrative.

 

[Return of the Paek]

He signed Jack Johnson.

He “built” the team? The team had two generational centers, a 1D and two 1Gs! That’s the hard part.

That being written, I feel a little foolish whenever I see this thread bumped.

I’m with you, how in the world can people say that Rutherford did a good job, he signed Jack Johnson. Sure the team won a couple cups but they had Malkin and Crosby. I think what he’s done here in Pittsburgh is a net negative.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Shero had two generational centers, 2 #1 Ds, a first overall pick as a his goalie, a second overall pick as his third ****ing center, and he **** the bed over and over again.

JR came into a big ass mess with the Pens floundering for five years, and he was the one that rebuilt the team and helped cement Crosby and Malkin’s legacies.

I don’t get why people can’t understand what JR did and give him credit.

Also Bylsma, but your point remains

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

I’m with you, how in the world can people say that Rutherford did a good job, he signed Jack Johnson. Sure the team won a couple cups but they had Malkin and Crosby. I think what he’s done here in Pittsburgh is a net negative.

Lol, That’s fine, I can take it. But, the Jack Johnson narrative persists because it is true. He sucks and signing him is such a bafflingly stupid decision.
Agree that GMJR did better than GMRS.
“A good core”? A great core!

 

[Ogrezilla]

Hard to believe you are a Pens fan after reading this post. Do you even watch the games? You stated that Rutherford had a good roster when he took the job then made some mistakes then fixed his own mistakes to win the two Cups. That is absolutely bull crap.

When Rutherford took over as the GM the team was old and slow around the core. Many experts said the time of Pens as top contenders was over. With only a one year transition season Rutherford turned the team into back to back Cup Champs. Rutherford was head cuffed with some bad contracts and somehow still pulled of the great trades to build a champion like getting Daley for Scuderi, Kessel for a steal, Hornqvist for Neal, Bonino for Sutter, and so many more.

Really for you own sake please stop defending wanting to get rid of Rutherford. People need to just admit when they are wrong and move on. This thread should of been taken down a long time ago. If some posters don't know when to admit mistakes the mods should help them out and save them some embarrassment and close this thread. It is honestly as bad as if we had a trade Crosby thread.

I am beyond confused here. Not only did I never state that he had a good roster when he got here (though obviously there was a hell of a good core in place), I am actively arguing that JR has done a great job here despite making some mistakes. I really don't understand what you think you read in my post.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Bold choice repping bottom pairing early 90s Pens defensemen and then complaining about our current blue line.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, I’m sure Peter Tagglianetti tried really hard and all.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

I’m with you, how in the world can people say that Rutherford did a good job, he signed Jack Johnson. Sure the team won a couple cups but they had Malkin and Crosby. I think what he’s done here in Pittsburgh is a net negative.

Did you forget the sarcasm emoji? Please tell me you aren't being serious.

 

[JTG]

This thread has become weird.

 

[Gurglesons]

Shero had two generational centers, 2 #1 Ds, a first overall pick as a his goalie, a second overall pick as his third ****ing center, and he **** the bed over and over again.

JR came into a big ass mess with the Pens floundering for five years, and he was the one that rebuilt the team and helped cement Crosby and Malkin’s legacies.

I don’t get why people can’t understand what JR did and give him credit.

Shero and JR have the same amount of finals appearances with the Pens. JR gets us to another and I’ll crown him the champ.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

I am beyond confused here. Not only did I never state that he had a good roster when he got here (though obviously there was a hell of a good core in place), I am actively arguing that JR has done a great job here despite making some mistakes. I really don't understand what you think you read in my post.

Maybe I misinterpreted your post. I just think when Rutherford took a team that was old and slow around its core and made it the fastest team in hockey with just a one year transition period was insanely good GM skills. Add in the fact Rutherford was saddled with contracts that most thought impossible to get rid of like Scuderi. Not only did he get a taker but also got a productive player back in Daley. Almost all Rutherford's moves were flawless turning that team around so fast. So when you said Rutherford made some mistakes in the beginning and then corrected them I just can't see that. To expect a faster transition than what happened is crazy. Might have been the fastest transition in the history of hockey. Slow and old to becoming a 2 time Cup Champs with only one year to transition is insane.

Patrick made some great trades in the late 80's and early 90's such as the Francis and Samuelson trade and the Murphy trade which helped win the first Cups of our Pens franchise. Unfortunately Patrick lost his mojo and made some historically bad deals in the mid 90's with the worst being the Naslund trade.

I think the job Rutherford has done with the Pens is maybe the best GM work I have seen since being a hockey fan for 35 years.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Shero and JR have the same amount of finals appearances with the Pens. JR gets us to another and I’ll crown him the champ.

One guy was GM much longer and had one cup win.

Another guy was GM for a much shorter time period and won two cup wins.

This isn’t a debate that can even be won if you want to claim Shero had as much success as JR.

 

[Gurglesons]

One guy was GM much longer and had one cup win.

Another guy was GM for a much shorter time period and won two cup wins.

This isn’t a debate that can even be won if you want to claim Shero had as much success as JR.

Shero made two cup runs in his 2nd and 3rd season as GM?

He then had a 2nd and 1st round exit and his team was absolutely dominate in the regular season in 2012.

They have basically the same success rate as each other. Aside from JR’s two cups of course.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Shero made two cup runs in his 2nd and 3rd season as GM?

He then had a 2nd and 1st round exit and his team was absolutely dominate in the regular season in 2012.

They have basically the same success rate as each other. Aside from JR’s two cups of course.

CP set Shero up to create a dynasty, Shero set JR up to rescue the org from his mess.

The guy who was given the most gifts to start out as GM in recent memory won a single cup, while the guy sent in to clean up his mess won two.

It’s honestly not a contest, and I was never a Shero basher, but this shit is obvious.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This thread has become weird.

It's not that weird.

 

[Return of the Paek]

Did you forget the sarcasm emoji? Please tell me you aren't being serious.

What’s this sarcasm emoji everyone is talking about?