Jim Benning Discussion -- Part II

[Jimson Hogarth*]

You'll be eating those words when the Benning haircut starts to catch on.
I've already seen quite a few young guys copying our GM's do!

bro nothing will get rid of my Mt Pleasent fade. Tight on the sides, ridiculously long on top, kind of like a modern Flock of Seagulls.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I don't know why we'd be discussing the stupid comments, I don't believe I've ever commented on his voice or his haircut, I ignore those posts.

I generally try and engage people in discussions on why I feel the way I do.

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With regards to Sbisa, the amount of money you make and the GM publicly stating he was targeted and not the dump he appears to be is where people express their feelings. He has looked on par with Weber and Stanton I guess, the issue, those guys make 5 times less salary and 4 times less the cap hit.

It has everything to do with acquiring him in the 1st place.

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Miller is 34, we were told we were retooling. Many thought we'd be looking to get younger considering we were beaten over the head with the idea that Santorelli and Garrison were TOO old to be part of a re-tool. It's just thinks that kind of go against what we were told on others.

I understand the Miller signing. Still don't like $$$ or the term, but I get it.

No problem with people attacking Benning for that if they don't agree.
Seems strange to assess Sbisa on the basis of Benning's comments. I always try to assess players on their play.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Two players we've seen play well in the past (Hamhuis and Bieksa) have looked downright terrible next to Sbisa.

Bieksa is a tire fire in his own right this year IMO, but Hamhuis looked awful next to him this year.

I don't think Hamhuis and Bieksa have looked very good even when not playing with Sbisa.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

No problem with people attacking Benning for that if they don't agree.
Seems strange to assess Sbisa on the basis of Benning's comments. I always try to assess players on their play.

You have to evaluate based on the franchise cost to acquire the asset and measure it according to on ice play. What did it cost the franchise to bring Sbisa in? What will it cost in the future when we need to re-sign him?

 

[Ryp37]

Probably. A lot of games I don't really focus that much on the bottom defencemen.

I dont either, its hard to not notice when the pucks coughed up or pizza'd threw the middle or random horribly timed pinches

 

[Ryp37]

There are people that watch games looking for Sbisa specifically. It's quite clear he has become the scapegoat.

Kind of a weird assumption to make

 

[Blob Mckenzie*]

I'm not a Benning guy, I'm a "Give the new GM a chance" guy.

A lot of the criticism Benning has received is entirely because he's Benning and not Gillis.

For whatever reason, some posters have pre-determined that they're going to criticize everything Benning does. Look at the reaction to the Kassian trade rumours - people are already complaining about a trade that hasn't happened! Benning could turn Kassian into Crosby, and people would come on here and complain about Crosby's cap hit and concussion history.

Great post and exactly how I feel . The hatred of Benning by some posters is hilarious .

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I dont either, its hard to not notice when the pucks coughed up or pizza'd threw the middle or random horribly timed pinches

Yeah or when Stanton gets a hooking penalty late in the LA game.
They all make about the same amount of mistakes but Sbisa is the most physical of the three.

 

[opendoor]

No problem with people attacking Benning for that if they don't agree.
Seems strange to assess Sbisa on the basis of Benning's comments. I always try to assess players on their play.

It's not like Sbisa comes out looking better if you just do that. He has been among the worst regular defensemen in the NHL over the last half decade and this year isn't much different.

 

[tantalum]

Sometimes the hardest move is the right move. We had an elite young goalie who loved it here and an older goalie who didn't want to be here.

No you had a goalie that wanted to be here and a goalie who only wanted to be in Florida. Who didn't want him at the time. But let's not re-hash that.

Benning....I said the other day I'm certainly not sold on him and that should be the case for everybody reading this post. Like most GMs he's done things I agree with and other things I don't. For me the "don't agree with" pile is larger.

That said the judgement comes at the end of the season and as we move along in this process. At this point the new regime has had the exact same vision as the old regime (re-tool while competing for a playoff spot). The exact same thing Gillis was attempting to do the final 18 or so months of his tenure. I do believe Gillis was let go too early. He should have had the off season and into this year to right the ship. But that doesn't factor into my assessment of Benning.

The weeks up to the deadline and deadline day will be the time he has to put his stamp on the team. We'll see what that stamp it is.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

No you had a goalie that wanted to be here and a goalie who only wanted to be in Florida. Who didn't want him at the time. But let's not re-hash that.

Benning....I said the other day I'm certainly not sold on him and that should be the case for everybody reading this post. Like most GMs he's done things I agree with and other things I don't. For me the "don't agree with" pile is larger.

That said the judgement comes at the end of the season and as we move along in this process. At this point the new regime has had the exact same vision as the old regime (re-tool while competing for a playoff spot). The exact same thing Gillis was attempting to do the final 18 or so months of his tenure. I do believe Gillis was let go too early. He should have had the off season and into this year to right the ship. But that doesn't factor into my assessment of Benning.

The weeks up to the deadline and deadline day will be the time he has to put his stamp on the team. We'll see what that stamp it is.

We're not that far apart. Except I think Benning has done more good than bad and I like the style the team is playing and the improvement so far in the standings. I think we're unlikely to see a repeat of last years meltdown.
I like the direction and I really like this past years draft although it's early days.
I think Gillis stayed around a year too long but overall he did some very positive things. The handling of the goalies and hiring Torts are on him, IMO. I don't care what role ownership played there are some things you need to take a stand on. Gillis didn't. He has to wear those.
But I'm also not diminishing his accomplishment of getting to one game of a Cup.

 

[arsmaster*]

No problem with people attacking Benning for that if they don't agree.
Seems strange to assess Sbisa on the basis of Benning's comments. I always try to assess players on their play.

Sbisa is the worst defensman on the team based on my eye test. Bad reads, bone headed giveaways and awful ability to pass the puck to his teammates.

Part of this is analyzing his play, but also weighing it with the expectations laid out by our GM. He was the #9 dman on the Ducks depth chart when he was acquired. He's basically come as advertised: toolsy skater with below average hockey sense, below average passing ability and can throw some hard checks. Part of the blame for his play belongs on the coach too IMO, Sbisa should be strictly a Don Cherry favourite type - Glass and out.

Great post and exactly how I feel . The hatred of Benning by some posters is hilarious .

Funnily enough you can't seem to make a post without giving Gillis a kick in the pants though, so you're pretty much opposite to what you're saying.

 

[Nuckles]

I'm not a Benning guy, I'm a "Give the new GM a chance" guy.

A lot of the criticism Benning has received is entirely because he's Benning and not Gillis.

For whatever reason, some posters have pre-determined that they're going to criticize everything Benning does. Look at the reaction to the Kassian trade rumours - people are already complaining about a trade that hasn't happened! Benning could turn Kassian into Crosby, and people would come on here and complain about Crosby's cap hit and concussion history.

My distaste for the Kassian stuff is based around his current low trade value because of how he has been handled. Also, Benning's trade history in his short tenure as GM has left me completely unimpressed so I don't have high hopes for a good trade. If he pulls off an amazing trade I will give him credit for it, but I don't see it happening.

 

[arsmaster*]

My distaste for the Kassian stuff is based around his current low trade value because of how he has been handled. Also, Benning's trade history in his short tenure as GM has left me completely unimpressed so I don't have high hopes for a good trade. If he pulls off an amazing trade I will give him credit for it, but I don't see it happening.

It's called trepidation and IMO there is just reason for it IMO.

If he does well he'll get applause from me, I'm just terrified he won't, considering the player in question isn't exactly lighting it up to increase his perceived value.

 

[canucks10]

If someone actually believes that people would complain about moving Kassian for Crosby, I don't know what to say.

The jury is out on the 2 trades of good assets JB has made.

People are leery of Benning trading Kassian, because his MO to this stage has been to forego value to get what he wants.

Disagreeing with some of his moves and applauding others is going to happen. I don't think you'll find a single poster questioning the Vrbata contract, it's quite literally the best piece of business he's done so far.

I've come around on Dorsett.

Still hate the Kesler return, still hate the Garrison return, still hate letting a good player walk for nothing, still don't like giving up a top 50 pick for a prospect, and I don't like the Miller contract although I can see his thought process.

The Garrison trade was purely intended for cap relief, Garrison was making 4.6 million a year singed till 2018 and he wasn't even playing top 4 he was constantly on the bottom pairing he wasn't great defensively either.
I know he's a step up on Sbisa but ill take Sbisa signed at just over 2 million till the end of the year over Garrison and his giant contract all day.

Also a good chunk of the cap relief we got from unloading Garrison was put towards signing Vrbata which seems like a pretty good trade off to me.

 

[arsmaster*]

The Garrison trade was purely intended for cap relief, Garrison was making 4.6 million a year singed till 2018 and he wasn't even playing top 4 he was constantly on the bottom pairing he wasn't great defensively either.
I know he's a step up on Sbisa but ill take Sbisa signed at just over 2 million till the end of the year over Garrison and his giant contract all day.

Also a good chunk of the cap relief we got from unloading Garrison was put towards signing Vrbata which seems like a pretty good trade off to me.

The team invested Garrison's hit on the goalie.

Vrbata's salary is Kesler's.

I won't touch on the "giant contract" comment, my thoughts on it are in 5 or 6 threads on the front page

 

[Diamonddog01]

No, it's really not exaggeration or hyperbole. You may have convinced yourself, but it's plainly evident to anyone with a shred of rational thinking or objectivity.

Your posting history supports his assertions.

It absolutely does not, but nice try. You may wish to try being objective or engage in some rational thinking sometime as opposed to making baseless claims.

 

[Tiranis]

he wasn't even playing top 4 he was constantly on the bottom pairing

nope.

he wasn't great defensively either.

that's literally what he's best at.

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

The team invested Garrison's hit on the goalie.

Vrbata's salary is Kesler's.

I won't touch on the "giant contract" comment, my thoughts on it are in 5 or 6 threads on the front page

You can't allocate it to specific players like that. You need to take the global salary savings.
In any event, the Kesler trade was not really about salary as there were other factors there.
Salary considerations defiitely played into trading Garrison as did the emergence of Tanev as a top 4 guy.
I also think Benning thought the age of the defence was becoming an issue.

 

[Scurr]

The only questions now... is Jason Garrison a generational talent? How many generations will it take the organization to recover? Will Benning ever get another GM job with this hanging around his neck?

 

[Alan Jackson]

You can't allocate it to specific players like that. You need to take the global salary savings.
In any event, the Kesler trade was not really about salary as there were other factors there.
Salary considerations defiitely played into trading Garrison as did the emergence of Tanev as a top 4 guy.
I also think Benning thought the age of the defence was becoming an issue.

Not to mention that Edler, Bieksa and Hamhuis are already all making more than $4.5 million, with Tanev likely to join them. Something had to give.

 

[arttk]

Not to mention that Edler, Bieksa and Hamhuis are already all making more than $4.5 million, with Tanev likely to join them. Something had to give.

Well if we didn't sign Miller to that 6M contract, we could've easily kept Garrison. Does anybody believe that Miller is 4M better than Lack to justify us shipping out Garrison?

 

[Alan Jackson]

Well if we didn't sign Miller to that 6M contract, we could've easily kept Garrison. Does anybody believe that Miller is 4M better than Lack to justify us shipping out Garrison?

Garrison is signed through 17/18. It's not just abut this season, but having some cap flexibility going forward.

 

[DCantheDDad]

Yes, I believe that Garrison is going to start declining in the next year or so. I think the value in the deal lies closer to the end of the contract, as opposed to now.

 

[arsmaster*]

You can't allocate it to specific players like that. You need to take the global salary savings.
In any event, the Kesler trade was not really about salary as there were other factors there.
Salary considerations defiitely played into trading Garrison as did the emergence of Tanev as a top 4 guy.
I also think Benning thought the age of the defence was becoming an issue.

I would say age had little to do with Garrison's trade, I can agree about "fit".

Benning gets credit around here for going after an older defensman, so I don't think age was that big of a factor.

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I'll even concede to you that I can't allocate cap dollars to specific players, that's fine....cuts both ways though.