Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (Part XVI)

[StronGeer]

If we had any space for him, I wouldn't mind giving Brenden Morrow a shot.

Alas, I don't think we have cap or roster space for him.

 

[Heldig]

Phoenix has 9 dmen signed to NHL contracts. Something has to give.

Not really good trade partners but 1 of their extra LHD could help the Jets:

Klesa
Schlemko
Summers

 

[Huffer]

Yep. IMO Bogo is worth more than Shattenkirk. McDonnagh is a good comparable. But I'm sure Bogo's agent will argue that Mcdonnagh took a big time hair cut to stay with the *** against the cap Rangers. As much as my client loves the city he isn't interested in taking the same discount to stay with the Winnipeg Jets. The Rangers only have $ 3.3 M of cap space to sign Stepan, and then have guys like Lundqvist, Girardi, MDZ, Callahan, Kreider & Boyle hitting free agency next year.

I understand what you are saying but I don't think I can agree. I don't think an agent for one player can discount a contract another player got and say that they can't use it because of whatever reason (player took a discount, etc). At the end of the day, that is the contract that the player signed, and that becomes the comparable IMO.

As for Shattenkirk, while I would rather have Bogosian as well, I don't think I can say that Bogosian is worth say a million dollars more.

Somewhere a little more than Shattenkirk (4.25), or even right around McDonnagh (4.7) would be fair IMO. Maybe even 5, or 5.25 max to get years 7 and 8. But at that point, we would be paying quite a premium over what the Islanders paid for Hammonic.

 

[Huffer]

Phoenix has 9 dmen signed to NHL contracts. Something has to give.

Not really good trade partners but 1 of their extra LHD could help the Jets:

Klesa
Schlemko
Summers

I thought before last season and again at last seasons trade deadline that Klesla would be a decent fit. I thought that if Chevy could have somehow traded Hainsey, and then acquired Klesla for less than what he got for Hainsey it wouldn't have been a bad thing.

If we acquired one of those guys now though, who goes? Stuart?

 

[Heldig]

Klesa is an upgrade on Stuart and Clitsome. I think if Winnipeg acquired him he would fit in as the 2nd pairing LD. Big, tough, sound defensively, excellent shot blocker.

 

[Dirty30]

Is Sol or Chariot ready to come up and take that number6 role on defence?

 

[garret9]

Is Sol or Chariot ready to come up and take that number6 role on defence?

I'm not sure either of those guys will ever be ready for that spot.
Melchiori who is one year younger already passed them on the depth charts at StJ.
Chiarot there is still a chance but window is shrinking.
Sol I doubt. The guy played his Jr OA and then next season was in ECHL to make room for Melchiori.

 

[Bob E]

Klesa is an upgrade on Stuart and Clitsome. I think if Winnipeg acquired him he would fit in as the 2nd pairing LD. Big, tough, sound defensively, excellent shot blocker.

Not a bad player, but is making $2.975 mill this year and then is a UFA. Not sure what happens next year if he walks, and Stuart walks (or is moved to make room for Klesla). Does Melchiori move up? Maybe.

I do like the idea of a Klesla/Bogo top shut down pairing. Suppose Clitsome could move to the 3rd pairing.

 

[surixon]

Not a bad player, but is making $2.975 mill this year and then is a UFA. Not sure what happens next year if he walks, and Stuart walks (or is moved to make room for Klesla). Does Melchiori move up? Maybe.

I do like the idea of a Klesla/Bogo top shut down pairing. Suppose Clitsome could move to the 3rd pairing.

If we could land him for a fourth rounder I'd be OK with it. He'd really solidify our defense and plays a style that would fit in nicely.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Is Sol or Chariot ready to come up and take that number6 role on defence?

They have an outside chance of claiming that #6 role in camp. In St. John's. If the stars align.

 

[BigZ65]

I understand what you are saying but I don't think I can agree. I don't think an agent for one player can discount a contract another player got and say that they can't use it because of whatever reason (player took a discount, etc). At the end of the day, that is the contract that the player signed, and that becomes the comparable IMO.

As for Shattenkirk, while I would rather have Bogosian as well, I don't think I can say that Bogosian is worth say a million dollars more.

Somewhere a little more than Shattenkirk (4.25), or even right around McDonnagh (4.7) would be fair IMO. Maybe even 5, or 5.25 max to get years 7 and 8. But at that point, we would be paying quite a premium over what the Islanders paid for Hammonic.

Why does Hamonic matter in this discussion? I don't think you can compare 2nd vs 3rd contracts, Hamonic and Bogosian are at different stages of their career.

 

[HannuJ]

as every day goes by and Grabovski isn't signed, i'd sure love to grab him and trade Joki to a team looking for depth but for a contract to expire in 2014-15.

 

[KingBogo]

I understand what you are saying but I don't think I can agree. I don't think an agent for one player can discount a contract another player got and say that they can't use it because of whatever reason (player took a discount, etc). At the end of the day, that is the contract that the player signed, and that becomes the comparable IMO.

As for Shattenkirk, while I would rather have Bogosian as well, I don't think I can say that Bogosian is worth say a million dollars more.

Somewhere a little more than Shattenkirk (4.25), or even right around McDonnagh (4.7) would be fair IMO. Maybe even 5, or 5.25 max to get years 7 and 8. But at that point, we would be paying quite a premium over what the Islanders paid for Hammonic.

I generally agree with your range for what Bogo is worth now. If we are looking at a 4 year deal something like $4.5 M is market value. This buys us 2 UFA years and allows Bogo to hit the open market the year he turns 27. This seems pretty reasonable. The question to me is how much he wants and the Jets are willing to pay for his prime years after that. I don't think his agent is willing to sell those for his current market value. If Bogo keeps developing like this organization needs him to, he will be worth much more than that in 4 years. Do you pay a little more now to guarantee him long term or do you wait and compete against 29 other teams in 4 years. Then we will really see how much he loves Winnipeg. I think/hope a $5.25 - $5.5 per over 8 years is a fair compromise.

The other question I have is what does internal salary structure contribute to the negotiations? Last year the Jets were willing to pay Kane $5.25 per based almost totally on potential without even a bridge deal. I would think Bogo's agent would make the argument his client is worth at least as much to the franchise, and has even paid his dues with a bridge deal first. Then how about Little's contract. If you were his agent wouldn't you want more for your client.

Overall I don't see a couple recent d-man signings determining Bogo's worth. The worst fall back position for all of us is to let an arbitrator decide now and then the open market decide later.

This doesn't even touch on the optics to the public if Chevy miss plays Bogo and loses a huge fan favorite just as he is ready to hit his prime. IMO Bogo is in the position of strength not Chevy.

 

[Hobby Bull]

Oh, come on, already.

When is the Bogosian/Wheeler announcement?

Shouldn't tonight be the night, before arguments are exchanged for arbitration?

IT'S GOT TO BE TONIGHT, RIGHT?

...sorry, got a bit panicky there...

 

[Grind]

Oh, come on, already.

When is the Bogosian/Wheeler announcement?

Shouldn't tonight be the night, before arguments are exchanged for arbitration?

IT'S GOT TO BE TONIGHT, RIGHT?

...sorry, got a bit panicky there...

you mean the paperwork for them needs to be filed tomorrow? LIttles got done the day they did that, i imagine it will be the same

 

[Hobby Bull]

you mean the paperwork for them needs to be filed tomorrow? LIttles got done the day they did that, i imagine it will be the same

Thanks. I can panic afresh tomorrow.

 

[KingBogo]

you mean the paperwork for them needs to be filed tomorrow? LIttles got done the day they did that, i imagine it will be the same

Wheeler's hearing isn't scheduled to the 29th, so the papers get submitted on the 27th. Bogo's is scheduled for the 2nd so the papers need to be submitted on the 31st.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

Alas, I don't think we have cap or roster space for him.

We're pretty much set on the left side with Ladd/Kane/Frolik/Tangradi, but I've seen a couple of sites like TSN list of Frolik (possibly incorrectly) as also playing RW. If that's true, a line up that included Morrow could look like:

Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Jokinen - Setoguchi
Morrow - Scheifele - Frolik
Tangradi - Slater - Thorburn
(Halischuk, Wright, Peluso)

 

[truck]

We're pretty much set on the left side with Ladd/Kane/Frolik/Tangradi, but I've seen a couple of sites like TSN list of Frolik (possibly incorrectly) as also playing RW. If that's true, a line up that included Morrow could look like:

Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Jokinen - Setoguchi
Morrow - Scheifele - Frolik
Tangradi - Slater - Thorburn
(Halischuk, Wright, Peluso)

I'd just as soon take Raymond or Mueller over Morrow. Cheaper. Faster. More versatile.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Alas, I don't think we have cap or roster space for him.

I don't get this saying that has been passed around here. "we don't have roster space". If the player is good enough, he is on the roster. Roster space is determined by the best players, it's easy to make roster space by waiving/trading/sending down the bottom end player. You don't gift anything to anybody, IMO, roster space is not something you can "fill up".

We're pretty much set on the left side with Ladd/Kane/Frolik/Tangradi, but I've seen a couple of sites like TSN list of Frolik (possibly incorrectly) as also playing RW. If that's true, a line up that included Morrow could look like:

Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Jokinen - Setoguchi
Morrow - Scheifele - Frolik
Tangradi - Slater - Thorburn
(Halischuk, Wright, Peluso)

Frolik is a RW. Plays primarily over there.

 

[Huffer]

Why does Hamonic matter in this discussion? I don't think you can compare 2nd vs 3rd contracts, Hamonic and Bogosian are at different stages of their career.

Both of them were taken in the same draft, and while it is indeed Hamonic's 2nd contract to Bogo's 3rd, the Islanders bought 3 UFA years of Hamonic's (I believe with a quick check) on this last deal.

Bogo has 2 years to UFA, so a 5 year deal buys the exact same amount of UFA years. Of course, if we sign him for 6+, we are getting more UFA years and the contract would have to reflect that.

I don't think these guys are at all that different of stages of their careers. Bogo started earlier, and has the higher ceiling IMO, but they aren't that far apart in terms of the stages of their careers.

I also put much more weight on how many UFA years are being bought compared to if the contract is the 2nd or 3rd.

 

[Huffer]

I generally agree with your range for what Bogo is worth now. If we are looking at a 4 year deal something like $4.5 M is market value. This buys us 2 UFA years and allows Bogo to hit the open market the year he turns 27. This seems pretty reasonable. The question to me is how much he wants and the Jets are willing to pay for his prime years after that. I don't think his agent is willing to sell those for his current market value. If Bogo keeps developing like this organization needs him to, he will be worth much more than that in 4 years. Do you pay a little more now to guarantee him long term or do you wait and compete against 29 other teams in 4 years. Then we will really see how much he loves Winnipeg. I think/hope a $5.25 - $5.5 per over 8 years is a fair compromise.

The other question I have is what does internal salary structure contribute to the negotiations? Last year the Jets were willing to pay Kane $5.25 per based almost totally on potential without even a bridge deal. I would think Bogo's agent would make the argument his client is worth at least as much to the franchise, and has even paid his dues with a bridge deal first. Then how about Little's contract. If you were his agent wouldn't you want more for your client.

Overall I don't see a couple recent d-man signings determining Bogo's worth. The worst fall back position for all of us is to let an arbitrator decide now and then the open market decide later.

This doesn't even touch on the optics to the public if Chevy miss plays Bogo and loses a huge fan favorite just as he is ready to hit his prime. IMO Bogo is in the position of strength not Chevy.

I hear what you are saying, but while his agent may indeed be trying to price those later years at a much higher rate based on "potential", Chevy can also just point to McDonnagh's contract where that didn't happen. McDonnagh is getting 4.7 for 6 years. Although that accounts for 2 UFA years I think. I see a fair compromise as 4.7 for 2 (Non UFA years), and something like 5.0 for the next 3, and maybe 5.25 for the 3 after that (if it's an 8 year deal). That averages out to a little over 5 million for 8 years.

Which is still higher than what every other UFA D man (in his age group) got this offseason. But that might be where we differ because I do use the other signings as benchmarks, and I believe that GM's (and agents) do as well. We would end up in a pretty bad place if our GM was consistently paying more for comparable players compared to other GM's.

I do agree with your last point about Chevy needing to get Bogo signed. As much as it pains me to say it though, if Bogo is looking for numbers that can't be justified, the GM would have to do what is best for the team. If that's a shorter term deal, with either a re-sign or trade at the completion, that might have to be the way.

Let's just keep our fingers crossed that we get Bogo locked up long term on deal that makes sense (for both sides).

 

[Sweech]

I don't get this saying that has been passed around here. "we don't have roster space". If the player is good enough, he is on the roster. Roster space is determined by the best players, it's easy to make roster space by waiving/trading/sending down the bottom end player. You don't gift anything to anybody, IMO, roster space is not something you can "fill up".



Frolik is a RW. Plays primarily over there.

Over where?

#DidntMakeMeSayUnderwear

 

[garret9]

ba dum ching

 

[Hobby Bull]

Look.

I'll keep it simple.

Bogo defines the franchise.

That's it. Love the guy. Wish I was him.