Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 14-15 Part XI

[Aavco Cup]

It's also worth keeping in mind that Trouba is 21. And in the last 7 seasons, there are four players who has averaged over 27 minutes of ice time per game.

Doughty doesn't normally play anywhere near what he has had to play this season. No one does. Except for Suter, but he's weird.

Hey I have a Trouba jersey. I don't need to be converted. But the previous poster said he played 30 minutes.

 

[Flair Hay]

There is nothing wrong with a guy like Postma going to arbitration and being UFA in a year. If we signed him to a multi year deal i'd like that.

 

[Romang67]

Hey I have a Trouba jersey. I don't need to be converted. But the previous poster said he played 30 minutes.

Yeah, it got a bit weird with that quote. I was gonna say something to you, but then I forgot!

I actually meant to point out that it's not exactly necessary, nor maybe wise, for Trouba to play 30 minutes in a lot of games.

 

[Evil Little]

Slater talk:

(I think I've got my timeline right, here, but it's been a couple of weeks.)

As the deadline passed, Cheveldayoff did that conference call and in it, Lawless asked what other moves he tried to make that didn't get done. Cheveldayoff's response was basically that to divulge such information would be unfair to the guys that had worked really hard to put the team into what was at the time a really good position to make the postseason. But saying something like "depth forwards" or "depth D" wouldn't be specific enough to really slight anyone. Saying "fourth line centre", on the other hand, is, as it's the position of a guy who can't really play anywhere else in the lineup.

I think Slater's time has unfortunately come and gone and I know there's some concern about him getting extended, I think partly due to the fact that his role hasn't really diminished as he's become more of a liability. But while this may be a bit of a stretch, I think reading between the lines says something. As a PK/faceoff specialist, there hasn't really been another option on the roster to do what he does so it's difficult for him to work his way out of the lineup. Hopefully that can be fixed in the offseason, though, and a big upgrade can be made at that spot.

 

[allan5oh]

So the fulcrum for your off-season planning is Postma? I don't get it.

Nah obviously I skipped a few steps there, but just showing how the Buff situation affects Postma.

 

[Jet]

Did you not read the last 2 sentences of my post? Or are we going to argue about a minute or 2?

Honestly, what could be wrong witg having the strongest, deepest D in the league such that a couple of 25 min D only get 23 because there is too much competition for ice time? That is other than the cost?

You don't get minutes played by D then.

You want elite level D playing 28 minutes a night. That is 5 minutes for EACH of Trouba and Myers. Our 3rd pair RD should get about 13... perfect for a guy named Paul Postma

So, yes, I am going to argue about it.

It's also prime situational minutes. I'd rather not have Byfuglien playing ANY PK and not close to the whole 2 minutes of every PP when I think that Myers and Postma can shine there.

It simply does not make sense.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah, it got a bit weird with that quote. I was gonna say something to you, but then I forgot!

I actually meant to point out that it's not exactly necessary, nor maybe wise, for Trouba to play 30 minutes in a lot of games.

Some strange things have crept into this conversation. Trouba is getting that kind of ice time because both Buff and Myers are injured. Doughty is getting a lot of extra minutes because LA is missing D. Suter always gets big minutes because Minny lacks other good D. Is there anyone who wouldn't want to keep all our RHD if we could have all 3 for 10 mil per year?

 

[Ducky10]

You don't get minutes played by D then.

You want elite level D playing 28 minutes a night. That is 5 minutes for EACH of Trouba and Myers. Our 3rd pair RD should get about 13... perfect for a guy named Paul Postma

So, yes, I am going to argue about it.

It's also prime situational minutes. I'd rather not have Byfuglien playing ANY PK and not close to the whole 2 minutes of every PP when I think that Myers and Postma can shine there.

It simply does not make sense.

Only two guys in the league play 28 minutes or more.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You don't get minutes played by D then.

You want elite level D playing 28 minutes a night. That is 5 minutes for EACH of Trouba and Myers. Our 3rd pair RD should get about 13... perfect for a guy named Paul Postma

So, yes, I am going to argue about it.

It's also prime situational minutes. I'd rather not have Byfuglien playing ANY PK and not close to the whole 2 minutes of every PP when I think that Myers and Postma can shine there.

It simply does not make sense.

I don't agree with the bold. You're exaggerating. Ah, but you say "Suter does it". Yes. Why. Minny doesn't have much of a D is why. But quite aside from that I think you are misunderstanding me. What is wrong with having 6 elite D? Would you object to that because they can't all play 28 minutes a game? Of course you wouldn't. There are just 2 things wrong with such a D corps. 1)The practical impossibility of ever getting such a D and 2)The cost of having such a D. In the Jets case if they were to keep Myers, Buff and Trouba they could play each game with a top pairing D on the ice at all times, sometimes 2 of them. So each of them getting 'only' 22-23 minutes is not a problem. That is a problem for a team that is having to give a player who should be a #6 or #7 D 18 minutes because they don't have anyone better.

I am every bit as much in favour of trading Buff as you are and for all of the same reasons .... except the one about having to get 28 minutes a game for Myers and Trouba. Sorry. That is only necessary if you don't have another D worthy of 28 minutes/game, or 20, or 15 or even 10. We must have a better 4th line so we don't wear out our top 9 Fs but we can play our top D 28 min/game. You want Postma to play 13 minutes. He is going to have to play 9 minutes on the left side because Myers and Trouba are playing 28 each and that only leaves 4. As for the situational usage ..... speak to the coaches.

The bottom line of your argument is that having Buff, Myers and Trouba on our right side is no good because they are too good. It isn't that. It is about the cost. Buff is able to get too much money. If not from us then from someone else. He is also able to get too much term the same way and probably a pretty strong NTC too. I would rather it was someone else giving him that. We can avoid tieing ourselves to a bad contract and collect some very nice players at the same time. The arithmetic is pretty strong. That is all quite apart from your dislike of the way he plays D.

 

[Aavco Cup]

@DarrenDreger: Salary cap discussion not on agenda at gm meetings, however the question will be raised. Nothing changed. Projecting upwards to $71 million.

Still assume the PA uses the 5% escalator

 

[sully1410]

You don't get minutes played by D then.

You want elite level D playing 28 minutes a night. That is 5 minutes for EACH of Trouba and Myers. Our 3rd pair RD should get about 13... perfect for a guy named Paul Postma

So, yes, I am going to argue about it.

It's also prime situational minutes. I'd rather not have Byfuglien playing ANY PK and not close to the whole 2 minutes of every PP when I think that Myers and Postma can shi make sens



.

I dont agree with your assessment of the minutes, but I agree with the idea of trading Buff.

I'm not sure that Buff plays the full two minutes on the power play so I'm not sure how that's a point to discuss, and even if he is playing most of the power play it's because he is the best option to have on the pp. Could Myers, Trouba and Postma do well there...sure. But the reason why Buff plays there as much as he does is because he is the best at it.

I think Buff's defensive liabilities are greatly overrated. In fact, I think he does quite well on the penalty kill. Its not like he's giving up goals left right and center.

 

[Jet]

I dont agree with your assessment of the minutes, but I agree with the idea of trading Buff.

I'm not sure that Buff plays the full two minutes on the power play so I'm not sure how that's a point to discuss, and even if he is playing most of the power play it's because he is the best option to have on the pp. Could Myers, Trouba and Postma do well there...sure. But the reason why Buff plays there as much as he does is because he is the best at it.

I think Buff's defensive liabilities are greatly overrated. In fact, I think he does quite well on the penalty kill. Its not like he's giving up goals left right and center.

Actually, I would disagree with the PP assessment. Our PP is less than top half of the league, yet we seem to have decent weapons. Sure, Buff can be effective when launching bombs but I think a guy like Trouba or Myers (even Perreault) use their smarts at the point much better.

I might have exaggerated about amount of minutes, but I don't think 3 guys all getting 23 minutes, especially with the price points, makes sense for the team. I'd rather Myers and Trouba play more. Postma can play 15 -16 minutes including PP time and the rest can go to Trouba and Myers.

 

[Whileee]

Actually, I would disagree with the PP assessment. Our PP is less than top half of the league, yet we seem to have decent weapons. Sure, Buff can be effective when launching bombs but I think a guy like Trouba or Myers (even Perreault) use their smarts at the point much better.

I might have exaggerated about amount of minutes, but I don't think 3 guys all getting 23 minutes, especially with the price points, makes sense for the team. I'd rather Myers and Trouba play more. Postma can play 15 -16 minutes including PP time and the rest can go to Trouba and Myers.

Jets PP has really suffered without having a player adept at entering the zone with control. Perreault was very good at that. The Jets had a few gimmicks that worked for a while earlier in the year, but on this road-trip it was a depressing grind to get the puck into the zone and set up the PP. Eventually, elite players like Ehlers and Petan are going to improve that aspect of the Jets' game.

 

[Jet]

Jets PP has really suffered without having a player adept at entering the zone with control. Perreault was very good at that. The Jets had a few gimmicks that worked for a while earlier in the year, but on this road-trip it was a depressing grind to get the puck into the zone and set up the PP. Eventually, elite players like Ehlers and Petan are going to improve that aspect of the Jets' game.

Even when we do get zone penetration there is a lot of mucking about on the perimeter.

Teams play Byfuglien tight which negates him but it's up to the other 4 players to make them pay for that. Then they'll be forced to back off a bit and that should help Buff start launching some bombs again.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Actually, I would disagree with the PP assessment. Our PP is less than top half of the league, yet we seem to have decent weapons. Sure, Buff can be effective when launching bombs but I think a guy like Trouba or Myers (even Perreault) use their smarts at the point much better.

I might have exaggerated about amount of minutes, but I don't think 3 guys all getting 23 minutes, especially with the price points, makes sense for the team. I'd rather Myers and Trouba play more. Postma can play 15 -16 minutes including PP time and the rest can go to Trouba and Myers.

Now I can agree.
We can't afford Buff. Even if we could he isn't actually worth what the market will give him. We can use that money better elsewhere. We can get some very good on ice assets for him. Postma is a pretty good 3rd pair option. With him, Myers and Trouba our right side D is still very good.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Actually, I would disagree with the PP assessment. Our PP is less than top half of the league, yet we seem to have decent weapons. Sure, Buff can be effective when launching bombs but I think a guy like Trouba or Myers (even Perreault) use their smarts at the point much better.

I might have exaggerated about amount of minutes, but I don't think 3 guys all getting 23 minutes, especially with the price points, makes sense for the team. I'd rather Myers and Trouba play more. Postma can play 15 -16 minutes including PP time and the rest can go to Trouba and Myers.

I agree. I think the days of always shooting the big bomb from the point are over. The PP demands real creativity and speed these days.

 

[Whileee]

Even when we do get zone penetration there is a lot of mucking about on the perimeter.

Teams play Byfuglien tight which negates him but it's up to the other 4 players to make them pay for that. Then they'll be forced to back off a bit and that should help Buff start launching some bombs again.

Agreed. Having more dangerous and creative players down low is important. As an example, Wheeler is good in open ice and in front of the net, but not very creative with the puck in the offensive zone. Same with Ladd. Without creative players on the PP the PK can just pressure all over the ice without fear of getting exposed. Players like Perreault (and eventually Petan and Ehlers) should open things up a bit and make a player like Buff more effective.

 

[Jet]

Agreed. Having more dangerous and creative players down low is important. As an example, Wheeler is good in open ice and in front of the net, but not very creative with the puck in the offensive zone. Same with Ladd. Without creative players on the PP the PK can just pressure all over the ice without fear of getting exposed. Players like Perreault (and eventually Petan and Ehlers) should open things up a bit and make a player like Buff more effective.

Buff won't be here by then

EDIT: Never mind, reading comprehension...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Agreed. Having more dangerous and creative players down low is important. As an example, Wheeler is good in open ice and in front of the net, but not very creative with the puck in the offensive zone. Same with Ladd. Without creative players on the PP the PK can just pressure all over the ice without fear of getting exposed. Players like Perreault (and eventually Petan and Ehlers) should open things up a bit and make a player like Buff more effective.

Don't ignore the way Scheifele has begun to perform on the PP either. Not quite Perreault but the next best thing we have right now.

 

[allan5oh]

Ian White was just released from his AHL PTO.

 

[sully1410]

Actually, I would disagree with the PP assessment. Our PP is less than top half of the league, yet we seem to have decent weapons. Sure, Buff can be effective when launching bombs but I think a guy like Trouba or Myers (even Perreault) use their smarts at the point much better.

I might have exaggerated about amount of minutes, but I don't think 3 guys all getting 23 minutes, especially with the price points, makes sense for the team. I'd rather Myers and Trouba play more. Postma can play 15 -16 minutes including PP time and the rest can go to Trouba and Myers.

And I don't disagree. Our PP has always been awful. Thats nothing new.

I think the value that we can get for Buff is sure to be more then how actual value to the team.

 

[Ducky10]

Don't ignore the way Scheifele has begun to perform on the PP either. Not quite Perreault but the next best thing we have right now.

Agree with this post, I've thought Scheif has made the PP look a little dynamic at times, his movement off the half wall has created quite a few chances. I also think he's been pretty solid at entering the zone with control.

 

[Ducky10]

I agree. I think the days of always shooting the big bomb from the point are over. The PP demands real creativity and speed these days.

I don't think that's necessarily true, creativity and speed can be used to open up a big shot from the point, which still has a lot of value. Blasting away aimlessly has no purpose but I don't see Buff waste a ton of shots up there and he is a very creative passer.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't think that's necessarily true, creativity and speed can be used to open up a big shot from the point, which still has a lot of value. Blasting away aimlessly has no purpose but I don't see Buff waste a ton of shots up there and he is a very creative passer.

The problem hasn't been the way Buff plays on the PP. The problem has been the rest of the PP leaning on him too much.

 

[Jet]

The problem hasn't been the way Buff plays on the PP. The problem has been the rest of the PP leaning on him too much.

I don't think Byfuglien moves the puck fast enough. He's not the only one but he is too predictable and moving the puck quicker would create some separation for him