Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (12-13 Part XIII)

[scelaton]

Lol, typical HFboard responses
You should have put up the factoid in my super stats GDT I made for WPG vs PHI... that Burmi actually has shutdown Malkin much better than Couturier ever did

Send me a link and I'll do it, or maybe you should venture in there yourself, as I am already 'tainted'.
One of the interesting side bars of all of this is that the Flyers fans mostly LOVE and OVERRATE Couturier, while our fan base is mixed, at best re Burmi..even though they are only a year apart in age and Burmi has performed better by many objective parameters.
What does that say?

 

[jetsfan101]

I like B Schenn, but I don't really like his brother though.

Clearly the Flyers do see value in him though, because the gave up JVR to get him.

That said, Schenn did take a pretty solid step forward this year and he is a bonified NHLer.

I would also want them to add a little, but that deal does make sense. It also gives the Jets two young core players.

As a #2LD, I feel like we could do worse than Luke Schenn. He was pretty bad in his last year with the Leafs (who wasn't?), but has been pretty solid besides that during his career. His contract is also very reasonable for an average 2nd line d-man.

 

[Guerzy]

The proposal the HNIC guys put out there a couple weeks ago of the Schenns for Buff/Burm was pretty good I thought. I might be a bit biased, but I think Philly should throw in a bit more. Nothing substantial, maybe a 2nd? Or flip 1st's (move up from 13 to 11)?

I'd do that player swap and wouldn't even think twice.

 

[FlyingW]

I'd do that player swap and wouldn't even think twice.

I agree! I think something like this happens. Makes so much sense for everyone

 

[Guerzy]

I'm just not sure Philly would trade both Schenn's after such little time of having them both. I tend to think having both adds a nice element to their young core there. I could be wrong, though. Would like if I was.

 

[Nothing Is New]

Would do Twoschenns for Burff - straight up. We may lose first year of trade - win it thereafter.

 

[McDrailers]

Realistically what can we value Burmistrov at? I remember him being our "big" NHL star in the AHL last year, compared to guys like OEL or the OKC big 4. He was a glorified AHL third liner, his defensive side of his game is great don't get me wrong, but are we going to get an A prospect + for him?

 

[Huffer]

Maybe I shouldn't have commented in the other thread that guys here are ok with throwing Buff away. Some nice proposals here.

Buff and Burmi for:

Eberle and 1st (7th)
LSchenn and B Schenn
Couturier and Coburn

I don't see the Oilers doing the first one. I think they are looking for a LHD (already have Petry and Schultz as PMD on the right).

I like the Schenn proposal because I'm personally higher on LSchenn than Coburn, and on BSchenn's offense over Couturier's. It's unfortunate that LSchenn is a righty though. Someone would still need to move to the left.

Did it really get discussed on HNIC? I see Tessier (Who is this guy?) mentioned that in this article, but he also doesn't like the deal.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=51876&blogger_id=161#.UbX52-cp93A

 

[Bob E]

I'm just not sure Philly would trade both Schenn's after such little time of having them both. I tend to think having both adds a nice element to their young core there. I could be wrong, though. Would like if I was.

Ya, I'd be more a believer the deal could happen, if the Flyers were going to keep Briere. But he seems headed for a buyout, too.

Flyers would then have Giroux, Couts, Burmi and Laughton as their centers, most likely. Unless they sign a guy, or make another trade, I don't think that works for them at center.

For the Jets, they would likely have Little, Schenn, Olli (for 1 year), Slater, with O'Dell and Scheifele as AHL call-ups. Scheifele steps in after a year in the AHL, for Olli, most likely.

On D, could L Schenn play the left side? If so, that would be a decent corps of Bogo, Enstrom, Schenn, Trouba, Redmond, Stuart, Postma, etc.

 

[jetsfan101]

What holds me back from really supporting deals like this is, do we really need a massive shake-up? Our corsi/fenwick numbers show us to be an average NHL team, we just didn't get good enough goaltending. I know we have to replace guys like Hainsey and Antropov who played good minutes for us, and that we're not aspiring to be merely an average team, but I feel like there's plenty of opportunity to get better without trading two of our ten (possibly eight?) best players. Give Burm solid minutes, especially with Kane, find a capable backup goalie to play at least 25-30 games (Khudobin), and right there we're a few wins better.

We have to get better play from Jokinen, and Scheifele has to be an impact guy, at least in significant stretches of time, which are no gimmes, nor is finding a suitable replacement for Hainsey. But a trade of our 2nd (and maybe a 3rd?) rounder for Tyler Kennedy makes our forward group good enough, and that leaves just one other hole to deal with.

I don't think we're broken, and I don't think we need a complete overhaul. We have 3 holes to fill at middle-6 RW, 2nd line LD, and good backup goalie. All of these can be done without major changes to the current roster.

 

[truck]

What holds me back from really supporting deals like this is, do we really need a massive shake-up? Our corsi/fenwick numbers show us to be an average NHL team, we just didn't get good enough goaltending. I know we have to replace guys like Hainsey and Antropov who played good minutes for us, and that we're not aspiring to be merely an average team, but I feel like there's plenty of opportunity to get better without trading two of our ten (possibly eight?) best players. Give Burm solid minutes, especially with Kane, find a capable backup goalie to play at least 25-30 games (Khudobin), and right there we're a few wins better.

We have to get better play from Jokinen, and Scheifele has to be an impact guy, at least in significant stretches of time, which are no gimmes, nor is finding a suitable replacement for Hainsey. But a trade of our 2nd (and maybe a 3rd?) rounder for Tyler Kennedy makes our forward group good enough, and that leaves just one other hole to deal with.

I don't think we're broken, and I don't think we need a complete overhaul. We have 3 holes to fill at middle-6 RW, 2nd line LD, and good backup goalie. All of these can be done without major changes to the current roster.

I don't see it as a need for a major shake up, but I do like the idea of solidifying the centre position. Ideally I'd like the Jets to find a way to add a Schenn or Cooter without moving Burmi - because more is - merrier - but it sounds like Burmi may be traded.

I'd rather have:

Little, Burmi, Scheif, Cooter, O'Dell and Lowry down the middle than...

Little, Scheif, O'Dell and Lowry

I don't like the idea of all eggs in one's basket. Scheifele is far from a sure thing.



Moving Buff about getting a long term fix at forward. The system has some major holes.

 

[PaperRockChamp]

Pete Tessier's article said that Byfug's end of season weigh-in had him at 302lbs HA.HA.

 

[jetsfan101]

I don't see it as a need for a major shake up, but I do like the idea of solidifying the centre position. Ideally I'd like the Jets to find a way to add a Schenn or Cooter without moving Burmi - because more is - merrier - but it sounds like Burmi may be traded.

I'd rather have:

Little, Burmi, Scheif, Cooter, O'Dell and Lowry down the middle than...

Little, Scheif, O'Dell and Lowry

I don't like the idea of all eggs in one's basket. Scheifele is far from a sure thing.

Moving Buff about getting a long term fix at forward. The system has some major holes.

The system sucks, for sure. But do we really need to base this all on Burm possibly being traded? Maybe I'm wrong, but I would hate to think that Chevy is susceptible to local media narratives like 'put your stamp on the team' or 'Burm/Buff have gotta go'. I would think that whatever ails Burm's relationship with the team (if anything) would be solved by them saying 'you'll have a bigger role, play 2nd line with Kane regularly, etc'. Add that to a multi-year contract offer and we're back to solid ground between player and management.

As for the centre depth, a guy like Max Domi could be a part of that in a couple of weeks. Little, Scheif, Burm, Lowry, O'Dell and Domi ain't nothing to sneeze at.

 

[jetsfan101]

Pete Tessier's article said that Byfug's end of season weigh-in had him at 302lbs HA.HA.

I'd love to see him source that.

 

[truck]

The system sucks, for sure. But do we really need to base this all on Burm possibly being traded? Maybe I'm wrong, but I would hate to think that Chevy is susceptible to local media narratives like 'put your stamp on the team' or 'Burm/Buff have gotta go'. I would think that whatever ails Burm's relationship with the team (if anything) would be solved by them saying 'you'll have a bigger role, play 2nd line with Kane regularly, etc'. Add that to a multi-year contract offer and we're back to solid ground between player and management.

As for the centre depth, a guy like Max Domi could be a part of that in a couple of weeks. Little, Scheif, Burm, Lowry, O'Dell and Domi ain't nothing to sneeze at.

I see Domi as a winger long term, but yes the draft may add.

I'd still love to add a Schenn or Cooter though.

 

[garret9]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=425112

re: off-season

NM, just noticed it got its own thread

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

The system sucks, for sure. But do we really need to base this all on Burm possibly being traded? Maybe I'm wrong, but I would hate to think that Chevy is susceptible to local media narratives like 'put your stamp on the team' or 'Burm/Buff have gotta go'. I would think that whatever ails Burm's relationship with the team (if anything) would be solved by them saying 'you'll have a bigger role, play 2nd line with Kane regularly, etc'. Add that to a multi-year contract offer and we're back to solid ground between player and management.

As for the centre depth, a guy like Max Domi could be a part of that in a couple of weeks. Little, Scheif, Burm, Lowry, O'Dell and Domi ain't nothing to sneeze at.

you spelled Bo Horvat wrong (still not sure why you called him a floater btw I just haven't seen it)

anyhoo, Horvat is much closer to being NHL ready than Domi, not to mention Domi's future lies at wing (forgetting the size issues, his skillset/game absolutely screams winger)

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=425112

re: off-season

NM, just noticed it got its own thread

saw that and apparently Bogo is trade bait over Buff

pretty good run down tho

Stalberg at 2mill? yes please!

Postma over Redmond? no thnx!

 

[Grind]

Send me a link and I'll do it, or maybe you should venture in there yourself, as I am already 'tainted'.
One of the interesting side bars of all of this is that the Flyers fans mostly LOVE and OVERRATE Couturier, while our fan base is mixed, at best re Burmi..even though they are only a year apart in age and Burmi has performed better by many objective parameters.
What does that say?

sorry to carry this tangeant but it IS interesting

Compare the case of Schiefele & Couturier with Burmistrov and Granlund

Schiefele = bad becaus: hasn't played in the NHL is unproven, wasn't great for the few games he played, was a slight reach, wasn't super awesome in hi sdraft year, but has been super awesome in junior and other leagues.

Couturier = good because: he's played in the NHL for 2 season. Had poor statistical production. Even his advance stats were mediocre (not AS good as he's been made out to be defensively)

Granlund = good because: he hasn't played much in the NHL and is unproven, wasn't great for the few games he played, was pretty good in his draft year, has been awesome in other leagues.

Burmistrov = bad because: he's played in the nhl for 3 seasons (you could have said 2 because he was already "bad" last year), has had poor statistical production. But his advance stats are average to above average for possession and defensive play.


So... Schiefe = offensive potential and unproven = bad
Granlund = Offensive potential and unproven = good
Burmi = Defensively proven but offensive potential unproven = bad
Couturier = Defensively proven but offensive potential unproven = good


...does not compute...

 

[garret9]

yup!

although I'd say Couturier still trumps Burmistrov offensively for potential just due to Coots has shown he has had it in Jr (doesn't mean it'll ever come, but I think it will)

 

[jetsfan101]

you spelled Bo Horvat wrong (still not sure why you called him a floater btw I just haven't seen it)

anyhoo, Horvat is much closer to being NHL ready than Domi, not to mention Domi's future lies at wing (forgetting the size issues, his skillset/game absolutely screams winger)

I only saw two London games this year (one early season, one at Mem Cup), but what I saw from Domi and Horvat went completely opposite as to what their scouting reports say. I saw Horvat get leaky out of the defensive zone on more than one occasion, trying to anticipate the breakout pass, and I saw Domi be a defensive dynamo, routinely taking away shooting and passing lanes and making smart plays up the boards.

I realize that I probably just saw the 'wrong' two games, and I trust what the scouts write more than what I saw from maybe 40-45 minutes of ice time, but my own eyes saw what they saw, and it can be tough to get that out of my head.

 

[Grind]

yup!

although I'd say Couturier still trumps Burmistrov offensively for potential just due to Coots has shown he has had it in Jr (doesn't mean it'll ever come, but I think it will)

agreed, I definitly think Coot's has more offensive potential, but it's more so the extreme amount of disparity between the opinions then the existance of disparity that bothers me..

coots= god
burmi = garbage

more likely
coots = very very good
burmi = very good.

 

[sully1410]

saw that and apparently Bogo is trade bait over Buff

pretty good run down tho

Stalberg at 2mill? yes please!

Postma over Redmond? no thnx!

I was a fan of that lineup.

 

[truck]

So... Schiefe = offensive potential and unproven = bad
Granlund = Offensive potential and unproven = good
Burmi = Defensively proven but offensive potential unproven = bad
Couturier = Defensively proven but offensive potential unproven = good


...does not compute...

The storylines can be tough at times, but FWIW I'd rank em:

Cooter > Granlund > Burmi > Scheif at this point.

Nobody is a clear and away favorite, but if I take off my home goggles - That's what I see.

 

[Zhamnov10]

I really like the schenn deal getting Luke would allow Trouba to not get pressed into top 4 duty right away and once he is ready Luke could move down to a bottom pairing who is more than capable to play in the top4 if some of our injury prone D go down.This also gives Scheifele some time to develop at the NHL or AHL level.

Ladd/Schenn/Wheeler
Kane/Scheifele/Little
Tangradi/Jokinen/FA
Wright/Slater/Peluso

Enstrom/Schenn
FA/Bogosian
Stuart/Trouba

Possible free agents I would like to see are Scuderi,Ference on D and Stalberg,Dupuis,Jones on the wing to fill some holes.