Recalled/Assigned: Jets assign Machacek, Macenauer and Meech to STJ

[surixon]

People say that the 4th line doesn't matter...Yet the two teams in the finals both made it there last year in quite a large part because of really really solid play by their 4th lines. They could actually play solid minutes, that's the key, they did not need to be protected and they would come at you with all lines and wear your team down. You need that to be successful, IMO. Guys like Peluso are the past.

The Kings turned their season around because of 3 factors. 1)Coaching change. 2)Acquiring a top end sniper 3)Perhaps most importantly THEY FIXED THEIR DEPTH, by scratching Westgarth, sending down useless Moreau and Hunter and calling up Dwight King and Jordan Nolan.

4th lines and depth matter big time, IMO. And I think we have screwed ours up. James Wright is a decent pickup (he's a better Macenauer IMO) but he cannot slide into any other role than hitting grinding defensive forward (ie Chris Thorburn part 2). Peluso is going to hold this team back not allowing them to roll 4 lines. Machacek could have been huge adding hitting and more importantly offense to the bottom line. As it stands we have nobody in the bottom line that can move into a more offensive role in the top 9, Machacek would have been great as a 4th liner that can easily slide into any line and role we need. But no we needed that fighter.

Scheifele says hi for the time being. If Scheifele goes down in 5 games there is a chance Machacek comes back up. I'm not sure why you are making a big deal about this, he clearly didn't get the job done in camp and it sounds like he thought he had it made during the year according to his coach. This is a wake up call for him, lets hope he goes down and plays hard so that he gets called up when and if Mark gets sent down or the Jets suffer injuries.

 

[Sweech]

People say that the 4th line doesn't matter...Yet the two teams in the finals both made it there last year in quite a large part because of really really solid play by their 4th lines. They could actually play solid minutes, that's the key, they did not need to be protected and they would come at you with all lines and wear your team down. You need that to be successful, IMO. Guys like Peluso are the past.

The Kings turned their season around because of 3 factors. 1)Coaching change. 2)Acquiring a top end sniper 3)Perhaps most importantly THEY FIXED THEIR DEPTH, by scratching Westgarth, sending down useless Moreau and Hunter and calling up Dwight King and Jordan Nolan.

4th lines and depth matter big time, IMO. And I think we have screwed ours up. James Wright is a decent pickup (he's a better Macenauer IMO) but he cannot slide into any other role than hitting grinding defensive forward (ie Chris Thorburn part 2). Peluso is going to hold this team back not allowing them to roll 4 lines. Machacek could have been huge adding hitting and more importantly offense to the bottom line. As it stands we have nobody in the bottom line that can move into a more offensive role in the top 9, Machacek would have been great as a 4th liner that can easily slide into any line and role we need. But no we needed that fighter.

I didn't realize Peluso was only a fighter without upside.

We haven't even seen him play one single game. Yet somehow the jury is already out with a verdict.

Frankly what's the difference between Jordan Nolan and Peluso?

 

[garret9]

Honestly... I wouldn't worry too much about it... one of two things will happen:
1) Scheifele proves himself to be NHL ready and sticks past the 5 games; we have 10 top9 players available and as soon as first injury arrives Machacek will most likely be the first one called up
2) Scheifele doesn't prove himself to be NHL ready and gets sent down; Machacek then gets brought up to bring roster back to 23 and everyone rejoices

Our 4th line:
Wright will be better defensively and PK than Glass, Slater will do better (per icetime) than he did with less crazy competition matchups, Thorburn will be Thorburn, Machacek will push himself past Thorburn now that he's been knocked down a peg, and Peluso will sit in the pressbox except when needed for a specific match and reason unless he shows that he's more than a fighter

 

[Holden Caulfield]

My only problem with this post is that you have already tried and convicted Peluso before game one! Give him a chance! Can you imagine if he becomes a player for us? You are going to feel kind of silly.

I will take it. My offer has always stood, I will never back down from one of my statements. I post a list every year for the draft, I post controversial material at times, but I stand by what I say, you can quote me back anytime. Am I wrong sometimes? Of course. But I am also right a fair bit of the time.

I just think we have completely handcuffed the team in terms of options right now. On yet another level, so what is Scheifele going to be centering Slater and Wright/Thorburn on that 4th line. Oh yeah that's great for his development putting him with defense only players. I guess that way Noel can justify his 4 mins a night and forcing Chevy into sending Scheifele back. Instead of giving him a guy who can actually score goals in Machacek on his wing? Then we will have 9 top 9 forwards, with all of our extras as guys who for sure cannot step into a top 9 role and contribute at both ends of the rink...just makes zero sense to me, when you could have a much deeper and more flexible roster. It's one thing when the talent is not there, it's completely another when you handcuff yourself unneccessarily.

Now I'm sure the "oh we can recall Machacek" argument comes out...but clearly this has shown how very completely zero faith they have in Machacek. So even if he is recalled he will be immediately in Noel's doghouse like last year and they will refuse to play him. This is quite simply using the evidence we already have to project that, and not out of line at all, IMO.

I really think Machacek has a strong chance to become the next grittier Matt Moulson type...maybe not quite as a high an offensive ceiling as that, but then again nobody in their right mind had Moulson having the offensive ceiling, similiar concerns about skating, etc. At this point I want Machacek to move on, we have held him back long enough...once another organization gets a look at him in their org he will have absolutely zero problems moving into NHL, IMO...

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I didn't realize Peluso was only a fighter without upside.

We haven't even seen him play one single game. Yet somehow the jury is already out with a verdict.

Frankly what's the difference between Jordan Nolan and Peluso?

The ability to play the game of hockey...

Nolan was ppg (48pts in 49gp) in the OHL, had 9g, 22pts in just 40gp in AHL...
Peluso had career high 37pts in 63gp in OHL, had 5g, 11pts in 37gp in AHL...

Don't act like I've never seen Peluso play...I've seen him a few times...

 

[wpgsilver]

The ability to play the game of hockey...

^Informed opinion right there...

 

[sipowicz]

My only problem with this post is that you have already tried and convicted Peluso before game one! Give him a chance! Can you imagine if he becomes a player for us? You are going to feel kind of silly.

Seems pretty obvious to me what the Jets are trying to do, look at the roster now and aside from Wellwood and Little team size has increased dramatically over last year. This is a good thing as they were pushed around quite a bit last season.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

^Informed opinion right there...

see the edit

 

[garret9]

Seems pretty obvious to me what the Jets are trying to do, look at the roster now and aside from Wellwood and Little team size has increased dramatically over last year. This is a good thing as they were pushed around quite a bit last season.

2011-12
avg ht 6'2
avg wt 199

2012-13
avg ht 6'3
avg wt 203

per eliteprospects

currently we're the 9th heaviest team and 3rd tallest

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Honestly... I wouldn't worry too much about it... one of two things will happen:
1) Scheifele proves himself to be NHL ready and sticks past the 5 games; we have 10 top9 players available and as soon as first injury arrives Machacek will most likely be the first one called up
2) Scheifele doesn't prove himself to be NHL ready and gets sent down; Machacek then gets brought up to bring roster back to 23 and everyone rejoices

Our 4th line:
Wright will be better defensively and PK than Glass, Slater will do better (per icetime) than he did with less crazy competition matchups, Thorburn will be Thorburn, Machacek will push himself past Thorburn now that he's been knocked down a peg, and Peluso will sit in the pressbox except when needed for a specific match and reason unless he shows that he's more than a fighter

Hate this mentality. I don't care who the other side dresses, I want the other team to have to adjust to us, we should not make a decision on our roster based on who the other team dresses...they want to dress a fighting plug you skate around him and score a goal, fighters do less than nothing, IMO. We all know a fighter ala Kevin Westgarth is not going to fight an agitator like Kaleta, so how does that "protect" your stars? They have their "code" after all...

 

[garret9]

Hate this mentality. I don't care who the other side dresses, I want the other team to have to adjust to us, we should not make a decision on our roster based on who the other team dresses...they want to dress a fighting plug you skate around him and score a goal, fighters do less than nothing, IMO. We all know a fighter ala Kevin Westgarth is not going to fight an agitator like Kaleta, so how does that "protect" your stars? They have their "code" after all...

Dude you know I'm not into bruisers either so please don't go after me...
I'm just not guaranteeing that he is a bruiser... if he is I'll be pissed though

 

[TCsmyth]

I really think Machacek has a strong chance to become the next grittier Matt Moulson type...maybe not quite as a high an offensive ceiling as that, but then again nobody in their right mind had Moulson having the offensive ceiling, similiar concerns about skating, etc. At this point I want Machacek to move on, we have held him back long enough...once another organization gets a look at him in their org he will have absolutely zero problems moving into NHL, IMO...

I really like your passion, and standing by your opinions Holden.

My opinion is that I don't agree with yours. I like my St. John's sources, and they have not been impressed at all with Spencer this year. If Machacek is what you believe he is, someone would have (or will yet) picked him up. As always, I reserve the right to be proven wrong

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I really like your passion, and standing by your opinions Holden.

My opinion is that I don't agree with yours. I like my St. John's sources, and they have not been impressed at all with Spencer this year. If Machacek is what you believe he is, someone would have picked him up. As always, I reserve the right to be proven wrong

If anybody knew what Matt Moulson was, he would have gotten more than a league minimum 2 way contract with one of the worst teams in the league...sometimes guys just need a chance.

 

[TCsmyth]

If anybody knew what Matt Moulson was, he would have gotten more than a league minimum 2 way contract with one of the worst teams in the league...sometimes guys just need a chance.

I know, I agree. But, you are also heavily discounting numerous opinions that say he has been not getting it done. A lot of people think that you don't reward that...

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Dude you know I'm not into bruisers either so please don't go after me...
I'm just not guaranteeing that he is a bruiser... if he is I'll be pissed though

I'm not "going after" you, it's just I've seen similar statements many times, and that type of thing is not something I agree with. It wasn't an attack on you, I agree with the rest of the post.

I don't think Scheifele will stick, and that's all because it looks as though he will be misused and not offered the opportunity to show what he can do. That's from the rumours that he will play 4th line (and we do not have any offensive players to play with him there)...I will gladly take that back if that's not what happens.

 

[sipowicz]

2011-12
avg ht 6'2
avg wt 199

2012-13
avg ht 6'3
avg wt 203

per eliteprospects

currently we're the 9th heaviest team and 3rd tallest

Man, your good

 

[garret9]

Man, your good

You forgot Toby for the short guys!
Toby, Little and Wellwood

 

[TCsmyth]

I don't mind the idea of Schiefle on the 4th line a bit. Rumor is he might get some Powerplay time. Seems to me that the Flyers used Couturier on the 4th last year, and then sprinkled in some special teams work - then later in the year and playoffs he took more minutes.

I think it is a good test to play with different types of players. I don't think that if Mark doesn't score on the 4th line - that they are going to deem him a failure. I think it is more about how he embraces whatever situation he is placed in...just my thoughts.

 

[angrymnky]

I appreciate Holden's comments. He has his opinions with reasons and stands by them. Is more interesting to read then people that just support whatever the team does or refuse to see possible downsides.

 

[Huffer]

I know, I agree. But, you are also heavily discounting numerous opinions that say he has been not getting it done. A lot of people think that you don't reward that...

This.

Numerous Ice Cap fans who have watched more Ice Cap fans have said that Macho has been a letdown this season.

In a shocking revelation, Chevy and Noel actually talk with McCambridge (gasp!), and were actually watching training camp and not finishing their season of be a gm mode of NHL 13, and made their decision based on years of professional experience that Macho wasn't one of our 12 best forwards, and not the best person to play on the bottom 6.

We all question coaching and management decisions from time to time, ( I thought Kulda should have been given more of a shot), but to actually keep implying that our professional coaching and management staff is incompetent because they don't agree with someone's own opinion is absolutely ridiculous, and pretty insulting to the people who have get paid to make these decisions.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Honestly... I wouldn't worry too much about it... one of two things will happen:
1) Scheifele proves himself to be NHL ready and sticks past the 5 games; we have 10 top9 players available and as soon as first injury arrives Machacek will most likely be the first one called up
2) Scheifele doesn't prove himself to be NHL ready and gets sent down; Machacek then gets brought up to bring roster back to 23 and everyone rejoices

I think you're exactly right.

The view I'm taking is that Machacek, as much as I like what he brings, is a bubble player. And it amounts to good asset management that the Jets, rather than keep bubble players on the roster, send them to the minors and instead use those roster spots to evaluate some talent that they've perhaps had their eye on.

I might be reading some posts the wrong way, but some seem to be talking as though Wright and Peluso's spot on the roster is a fait accompli for the season. I don't think that's the case at all, in fact I could see both getting dumped after a few games, in which case Machacek and/or Macenauer would be recalled.

 

[almostawake]

I might be reading some posts the wrong way, but some seem to be talking as though Wright and Peluso's spot on the roster is a fait accompli for the season. I don't think that's the case at all, in fact I could see both getting dumped after a few games, in which case Machacek and/or Macenauer would be recalled.

^^I think the point that Wright and Peluso maybe not be around long is very true.

I think Jets management are very determined to have hard working, maximum effort, bottom 6 this year (and team overall). Anyone not living up to that will be on thin ice.

 

[Huffer]

I might be reading some posts the wrong way, but some seem to be talking as though Wright and Peluso's spot on the roster is a fait accompli for the season. I don't think that's the case at all, in fact I could see both getting dumped after a few games, in which case Machacek and/or Macenauer would be recalled.

And if Cormier gets healthy, he could always get a game or two as well.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

This.

Numerous Ice Cap fans who have watched more Ice Cap fans have said that Macho has been a letdown this season.

In a shocking revelation, Chevy and Noel actually talk with McCambridge (gasp!), and were actually watching training camp and not finishing their season of be a gm mode of NHL 13, and made their decision based on years of professional experience that Macho wasn't one of our 12 best forwards, and not the best person to play on the bottom 6.

We all question coaching and management decisions from time to time, ( I thought Kulda should have been given more of a shot), but to actually keep implying that our professional coaching and management staff is incompetent because they don't agree with someone's own opinion is absolutely ridiculous, and pretty insulting to the people who have get paid to make these decisions.

Don't like the implication that I play NHL 13 or that I don't know what I am talking about.

Management's get replaced all the time because they are incompetent. This one is above reproach though? If they get insulted because I feel they have made mistakes, they need to grow a thicker skin to be in the professional sports world.

Feel free to mock me if Peluso becomes a useful player, but odds are he isn't, IMO. Don't like the direction we have taken here with a few things, don't like the way the roster is being built. Let's just remember that I even gave Ran_y Jones some credit last year at times, I judge by results, and I don't hold personal grudges. I hope Peluso can be effective and our backwards philosophy works...but I just don't see it...

Whatever, you all know my feelings. I'm going to leave this conversation, I don't feel like talking about it anymore.

 

[garret9]

I can't help but smile every time I see Ran_y Jones