Post-Game Talk: Jets 4 - Mild 2

[Jet]

Most of this board were crapping on Stan when ever he made his way into the lineup - every little flub with scrutinized.
Like most players, you need to play often to get better - a couple of significant injuries (one on top of the other) don't help his chances of staying in the lineup.
I'm glad he's coming around and showing his value - hope he keeps it up. Whether or not size is a appreciated as an asset for some, in hockey and on defense, it usually is.

Yeah, I've always been a Stan man but even I was losing a bit of faith.

He's been nothing but professional this year. He's obviously worked really hard in the offseason and in practice, and when he's drawn in he's shown real growth. His first pass is excellent, he doesn't ice the puck any more and he has really started to understand his agility limitations and has modified his positioning to compensate.

If he can find a way to get his big shot through, and tune his accuracy (he's getting better at that too) he's a solid everyday guy.

I know people HATE the Zdeno Chara comparisons, and I'm not going to suggest he's going to be that, but, Chara really stated to come into his own at 25-26, in his 5th - 7th pro seasons.

I firmly believe that defensemen tend to have a longer, flatter development curve. This is due to the fact that a really great defenseman is less dependent on pure skill, and moreso on experience and muscle memory.

Offensive ability is more about skill and game processing speed, defense is about predicting, positioning and repetition.

I always go back to my own experience, and I truly believe that I'm a better defenseman today than ever before - even at my advanced age. I'm so much smarter, calmer, and more confident.

I wish I had the same agility and skill I had when I was younger, though.

This is all to say that it probably makes sense for the Jets to move on from some of their d vets, (Schmidt, and one of Dillon or Demelo). Stanley allows that, along with Heinola and Capobianco .

 

[surixon]

Yeah, I've always been a Stan man but even I was losing a bit of faith.

He's been nothing but professional this year. He's obviously worked really hard in the offseason and in practice, and when he's drawn in he's shown real growth. His first pass is excellent, he doesn't ice the puck any more and he has really started to understand his agility limitations and has modified his positioning to compensate.

If he can find a way to get his big shot through, and tune his accuracy (he's getting better at that too) he's a solid everyday guy.

I know people HATE the Zdeno Chara comparisons, and I'm not going to suggest he's going to be that, but, Chara really stated to come into his own at 25-26, in his 5th - 7th pro seasons.

I firmly believe that defensemen tend to have a longer, flatter development curve. This is due to the fact that a really great defenseman is less dependent on pure skill, and moreso on experience and muscle memory.

Offensive ability is more about skill and game processing speed, defense is about predicting, positioning and repetition.

I always go back to my own experience, and I truly believe that I'm a better defenseman today than ever before - even at my advanced age. I'm so much smarter, calmer, and more confident.

I wish I had the same agility and skill I had when I was younger, though.

This is all to say that it probably makes sense for the Jets to move on from some of their d vets, (Schmidt, and one of Dillon or Demelo). Stanley allows that, along with Heinola and Capobianco .

Stanley has been a lot better the back half of this season. It seems he finally got it that he needs to play mean to be effective. Hopefully he has indeed turned a corner as this version of him I could make a spot for.

 

[JetsUK]

Stanley has been a lot better the back half of this season. It seems he finally got it that he needs to play mean to be effective. Hopefully he has indeed turned a corner as this version of him I could make a spot for.

Would be interesting to see Stanley in the Dillon role and Ville with Samberg if they can retain DD and move on from Schmidt, or keep him on as a $$$$$ PB guy.

Not convinced yet that he's up to that but def good to see him playing a stronger, simpler and less flustered game.

 

[Potrzebie]

I still don't get why so many Wild fans think of all the great players in the league, the Jets specifically target Kaprizov for some reason and attempt to injure him all game, every game they play. Yet somehow leave MacK, McJesus etc alone. Is it Russo's whining that legitimizes it?

 

[KingBogo]

Once again you're defending a stance of your own creation... I just said I liked Stan and quantified it that Chisholm had a better game - which is 100% true

You KNOW that fancy stats from one game make no sense... especially for 13 mins of ice time

True based on your opinion . That is hardly proof you are right.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I still don't get why so many Wild fans think of all the great players in the league, the Jets specifically target Kaprizov for some reason and attempt to injure him all game, every game they play. Yet somehow leave MacK, McJesus etc alone. Is it Russo's whining that legitimizes it?

I think the Jets just don't give a shit because they use Hartman and all he does is run around and try to hurt everyone without ever trying to answer for it. So its eye for an eye then with them and Kaprizov is fair game.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

True based on your opinion . That is hardly proof you are right.

Lets not kid ourselves either he has like 6 points in 24 games and is a -4 and they have been force feeding him top line minutes. He is a fine bottom 6 guy but jesus if we played Stan with Morrissey I expect him to have really good numbers too.

 

[surixon]

I think the Jets just don't give a shit because they use Hartman and all he does is run around and try to hurt everyone without ever trying to answer for it. So its eye for an eye then with them and Kaprizov is fair game.

Yeah, that is the deterant. You go after our skilled guys with your goons it's open season on your top player.

 

[scelaton]

....He's been nothing but professional this year. He's obviously worked really hard in the offseason and in practice, and when he's drawn in he's shown real growth. His first pass is excellent, he doesn't ice the puck any more and he has really started to understand his agility limitations and has modified his positioning to compensate.

If he can find a way to get his big shot through, and tune his accuracy (he's getting better at that too) he's a solid everyday guy.

I know people HATE the Zdeno Chara comparisons, and I'm not going to suggest he's going to be that, but, Chara really stated to come into his own at 25-26, in his 5th - 7th pro seasons.

I firmly believe that defensemen tend to have a longer, flatter development curve. This is due to the fact that a really great defenseman is less dependent on pure skill, and moreso on experience and muscle memory.

Offensive ability is more about skill and game processing speed, defense is about predicting, positioning and repetition....

This is all to say that it probably makes sense for the Jets to move on from some of their d vets, (Schmidt, and one of Dillon or Demelo). Stanley allows that, along with Heinola and Capobianco .

Agree with all the black bolded and will comment only on the blue bolded.

I think we are all tempted to invoke the Chara comparison when Stanley has a few good games, but he has, in fact, been quite sheltered and not shown enough consistency to even claim a bottom-pairing role. That said, I've really enjoyed watching him lately (mostly glimpses, as I've been away) and would love for him to succeed, here or elsewhere. However, there has been (Chisholm) and will be (Heinola) an opportunity cost to keeping him here, as well as a potential, benefit.

Here is where Chara was at the same age (Wikipedia):
In 2002–03, Chára began to blossom into an elite NHL defenceman. He posted new career highs with 30 assists and 39 points and became one of Ottawa's top two defenders, along with Wade Redden. He also earned his first NHL All-Star Game appearance, where he recorded the second-hardest shot behind Al MacInnis in the Skills Competition.[4]

 

[Buffdog]

Yeah, I've always been a Stan man but even I was losing a bit of faith.

He's been nothing but professional this year. He's obviously worked really hard in the offseason and in practice, and when he's drawn in he's shown real growth. His first pass is excellent, he doesn't ice the puck any more and he has really started to understand his agility limitations and has modified his positioning to compensate.

If he can find a way to get his big shot through, and tune his accuracy (he's getting better at that too) he's a solid everyday guy.

I know people HATE the Zdeno Chara comparisons, and I'm not going to suggest he's going to be that, but, Chara really stated to come into his own at 25-26, in his 5th - 7th pro seasons.

I firmly believe that defensemen tend to have a longer, flatter development curve. This is due to the fact that a really great defenseman is less dependent on pure skill, and moreso on experience and muscle memory.

Offensive ability is more about skill and game processing speed, defense is about predicting, positioning and repetition.

I always go back to my own experience, and I truly believe that I'm a better defenseman today than ever before - even at my advanced age. I'm so much smarter, calmer, and more confident.

I wish I had the same agility and skill I had when I was younger, though.

This is all to say that it probably makes sense for the Jets to move on from some of their d vets, (Schmidt, and one of Dillon or Demelo). Stanley allows that, along with Heinola and Capobianco .

So much of playing D is making the right reads. Sure you need physical tools, but the more quickly you process the game, the easier everything else becomes

Of course this gets easier with experience. As things become second nature, everything else opens up

Even JoMo took a quantum leap late in his development

 

[WolfHouse]

True based on your opinion . That is hardly proof you are right.

Says that guy that quoted %CF 76 for Stan haha as proof Stan was better than Chisholm after I simply posted my opinion.

You really like to play games on here sometimes. It gets in the way of good things you say.

I can't explain how Corsi works to you today but I can tell you that you are not understanding it correctly if you think your post somehow proved, umm, anything...

I mean if I posted Perfetti's 25% CF as a reason to press box him you would have lost your mind.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah, I've always been a Stan man but even I was losing a bit of faith.

He's been nothing but professional this year. He's obviously worked really hard in the offseason and in practice, and when he's drawn in he's shown real growth. His first pass is excellent, he doesn't ice the puck any more and he has really started to understand his agility limitations and has modified his positioning to compensate.

If he can find a way to get his big shot through, and tune his accuracy (he's getting better at that too) he's a solid everyday guy.

I know people HATE the Zdeno Chara comparisons, and I'm not going to suggest he's going to be that, but, Chara really stated to come into his own at 25-26, in his 5th - 7th pro seasons.

I firmly believe that defensemen tend to have a longer, flatter development curve. This is due to the fact that a really great defenseman is less dependent on pure skill, and moreso on experience and muscle memory.

Offensive ability is more about skill and game processing speed, defense is about predicting, positioning and repetition.

I always go back to my own experience, and I truly believe that I'm a better defenseman today than ever before - even at my advanced age. I'm so much smarter, calmer, and more confident.

I wish I had the same agility and skill I had when I was younger, though.

This is all to say that it probably makes sense for the Jets to move on from some of their d vets, (Schmidt, and one of Dillon or Demelo). Stanley allows that, along with Heinola and Capobianco .

He has really started to understand his agility limitations and has modified his positioning game to compensate.

I don't agree that Dmen take longer to develop, generally. But some certainly seem to. It makes sense that that would apply to the oversized ones who lack speed, quickness and agility. They don't have the tools to succeed on talent so have to develop with experience as you describe. Though it would also apply to less big Dmen who lack some of the skills but who can learn to play well with experience.

I don't think that is limited to Dmen though. Less talented F also learn to succeed in roles in the NHL with experience.

Bottom line, some players learn to compensate for their shortcomings through experience. You can't teach 6'7 and you can't rush experience. It takes time.

I don't think he affects the need to keep DeMelo. DD is one of only 2 RHS Dmen we have and the other is more highly flawed. He could make it reasonable to move on from Dillon though. Our left side would be OK with JMo, Samberg and Stan (assuming that Stan's recent good play continues).

Let Dillon walk and buyout either Smitty or Pionk to save nearly 8 mil in cap hit. Heinola would need to play the right side unless we acquire a RHD elsewhere.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Lets not kid ourselves either he has like 6 points in 24 games and is a -4 and they have been force feeding him top line minutes. He is a fine bottom 6 guy but jesus if we played Stan with Morrissey I expect him to have really good numbers too.

Wild had room for him that we didn't have. There are arguments to be made that we should have found room for him, but that is water under the bridge.

Chisholm seems to be doing well with the Wild. He IS still a rookie and can be expected to be better next year. I'm sorry we lost him but I hope he goes on the have a good career with the Wild. Just not TOO good.

 

[10Ducky10]

This is all to say that it probably makes sense for the Jets to move on from some of their d vets, (Schmidt, and one of Dillon or Demelo). Stanley allows that, along with Heinola and Capobianco .

I don't see Capo playing in the NHL, at least not with the Jets.

 

[KingBogo]

Says that guy that quoted %CF 76 for Stan haha as proof Stan was better than Chisholm after I simply posted my opinion.

You really like to play games on here sometimes. It gets in the way of good things you say.

I can't explain how Corsi works to you today but I can tell you that you are not understanding it correctly if you think your post somehow proved, umm, anything...

I mean if I posted Perfetti's 25% CF as a reason to press box him you would have lost your mind.

You sure twist shit around. And I understand it quite well thanks.

 

[Gm0ney]

I still don't get why so many Wild fans think of all the great players in the league, the Jets specifically target Kaprizov for some reason and attempt to injure him all game, every game they play. Yet somehow leave MacK, McJesus etc alone. Is it Russo's whining that legitimizes it?

Well, we've injured him twice in less than a year (Stanley crushing him last season, and Dillon's crosscheck earlier this year).

Not sure what Stanley was doing here...it's a weird hit:


And then Dillon's crosscheck happens a dozen times or more in every game it just happened to catch Kaprizov in a weird spot. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of cross checking going on there...but Mark Stuart used to do this for about 20 minutes a night in front of Pavs back in the day.


Neither of these look like there's any intent-to-injure at all. Just weird flukes. But people like to see patterns where they don't exist....

 

[WolfHouse]

You sure twist shit around. And I understand it quite well thanks.

Ah yes the same non-answer after picking a fight in an argument that didn't exist... you will never change - don't hurt your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

The simple fact that you're saying you prefer a 3rd line D over the Wild's top pairing defender last night says enough.

We will agree to disagree - I prefer a player who can handle 21 hard minutes against the Jets and not give up a goal. You like Stanley because you're a homer and we can never just be logical about players who aren't jets anymore.

 

[KingBogo]

Ah yes the same non-answer after picking a fight in an argument that didn't exist... you will never change - don't hurt your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

The simple fact that you're saying you prefer a 3rd line D over the Wild's top pairing defender last night says enough.

We will agree to disagree - I prefer a player who can handle 21 hard minutes against the Jets and not give up a goal. You like Stanley because you're a homer and we can never just be logical about players who aren't jets anymore.

If you believe Chisholm is actually a top pairing defensemen then go ahead. I will believe he isn’t. Time will prove who is right.

 

[Jets 31]

Well, we've injured him twice in less than a year (Stanley crushing him last season, and Dillon's crosscheck earlier this year).

Not sure what Stanley was doing here...it's a weird hit:


And then Dillon's crosscheck happens a dozen times or more in every game it just happened to catch Kaprizov in a weird spot. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of cross checking going on there...but Mark Stuart used to do this for about 20 minutes a night in front of Pavs back in the day.


Neither of these look like there's any intent-to-injure at all. Just weird flukes. But people like to see patterns where they don't exist....

Hartman's hit on Ehlers was way worse than any of those hits, not even close to the same. Russo doesn't have a leg to stand on here as far as i'm concerned.

 

[LowLefty]

Agree with all the black bolded and will comment only on the blue bolded.

I think we are all tempted to invoke the Chara comparison when Stanley has a few good games, but he has, in fact, been quite sheltered and not shown enough consistency to even claim a bottom-pairing role. That said, I've really enjoyed watching him lately (mostly glimpses, as I've been away) and would love for him to succeed, here or elsewhere. However, there has been (Chisholm) and will be (Heinola) an opportunity cost to keeping him here, as well as a potential, benefit.

Here is where Chara was at the same age (Wikipedia):
In 2002–03, Chára began to blossom into an elite NHL defenceman. He posted new career highs with 30 assists and 39 points and became one of Ottawa's top two defenders, along with Wade Redden. He also earned his first NHL All-Star Game appearance, where he recorded the second-hardest shot behind Al MacInnis in the Skills Competition.[4]

The theory that was being suggested is that these big guys may blossom late and they need to play to improve - so looking back at what he has done isn't the indicator - it's more about what is he doing now and is there a potential that this may carry forward.
Some will be more optimistic than others and that's fine - but pointing out consistency (when he rarely plays) and that he was sheltered (as most of the bubble guys are) doesn't tell us that is all he will ever be.
If he can continue to improve, he will be a huge asset (pardon the pun) - that's what I look at when I see him out there. Very much a glass half full with this player - and the exact opposite with others (ie; Ville) - so I get your points from a fan perspective.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The theory that was being suggested is that these big guys may blossom late and they need to play to improve - so looking back at what he has done isn't the indicator - it's more about what is he doing now and is there a potential that this may carry forward.
Some will be more optimistic than others and that's fine - but pointing out consistency (when he rarely plays) and that he was sheltered (as most of the bubble guys are) doesn't tell us that is all he will ever be.
If he can continue to improve, he will be a huge asset (pardon the pun) - that's what I look at when I see him out there. Very much a glass half full with this player - and the exact opposite with others (ie; Ville) - so I get your points from a fan perspective.

I think we will be doing well if Stan makes his recent play the norm. That would make him a perfectly viable 3rd pair Dman. I still don't see Chara 2.0 in him. I doubt he can become a viable 2nd pair man. But I would be quite happy if he could bump Snerg up to the 2nd pair when Dillon leaves, which I think is probable at this point.

 

[Jet]

Agree with all the black bolded and will comment only on the blue bolded.

I think we are all tempted to invoke the Chara comparison when Stanley has a few good games, but he has, in fact, been quite sheltered and not shown enough consistency to even claim a bottom-pairing role. That said, I've really enjoyed watching him lately (mostly glimpses, as I've been away) and would love for him to succeed, here or elsewhere. However, there has been (Chisholm) and will be (Heinola) an opportunity cost to keeping him here, as well as a potential, benefit.

Here is where Chara was at the same age (Wikipedia):
In 2002–03, Chára began to blossom into an elite NHL defenceman. He posted new career highs with 30 assists and 39 points and became one of Ottawa's top two defenders, along with Wade Redden. He also earned his first NHL All-Star Game appearance, where he recorded the second-hardest shot behind Al MacInnis in the Skills Competition.[4]

I think the big difference between Stanley and Chara is the teams they played on. Chara got a lot of reps on a pretty bad Senator team, and Stanley has been in and out of the lineup, playing a 6th d role, along with the minutes.

Not to say Stan would do more if he would have gotten the same opportunities as Chara did - but it is worth noting.

I think we will be doing well if Stan makes his recent play the norm. That would make him a perfectly viable 3rd pair Dman. I still don't see Chara 2.0 in him. I doubt he can become a viable 2nd pair man. But I would be quite happy if he could bump Snerg up to the 2nd pair when Dillon leaves, which I think is probable at this point.

Again, I have no idea what Stan's ceiling is, but just to be devils advocate - Chara wasn't Chara, until he was. He was pretty gawdawful for his first few seasons.

 

[Gm0ney]

I think the big difference between Stanley and Chara is the teams they played on. Chara got a lot of reps on a pretty bad Senator team, and Stanley has been in and out of the lineup, playing a 6th d role, along with the minutes.

Not to say Stan would do more if he would have gotten the same opportunities as Chara did - but it is worth noting.


Again, I have no idea what Stan's ceiling is, but just to be devils advocate - Chara wasn't Chara, until he was. He was pretty gawdawful for his first few seasons.

Good lord...Stanley's been given so much rope it's not even funny. The dude's absolute ceiling is a 6th defenseman, but we spent good draft picks on him and coaches are horny for size, so he gets chance after chance after chance. If he's 6'2" he doesn't get a f***ing sniff in the NHL. People see 10 games where he's sheltered and doesn't get absolutely turnstiled and they turn into the Tobias Funke "Maybe it'll work for us!" meme...

 

[surixon]

I think the big difference between Stanley and Chara is the teams they played on. Chara got a lot of reps on a pretty bad Senator team, and Stanley has been in and out of the lineup, playing a 6th d role, along with the minutes.

Not to say Stan would do more if he would have gotten the same opportunities as Chara did - but it is worth noting.


Again, I have no idea what Stan's ceiling is, but just to be devils advocate - Chara wasn't Chara, until he was. He was pretty gawdawful for his first few seasons.

The Chara comp is silly, there is one Chara and 1000's of big dmen who fell well short of him. It was always a pipe dream scenario.

I don't think we can actually argue about how it would be with a different org. This org has done almost everything they can to make it work with him here.

Now perhaps he's finally ready to seize a spot full time. He brings this play next year and he likely has that bottom pairing spot.

 

[WolfHouse]

If you believe Chisholm is actually a top pairing defensemen then go ahead. I will believe he isn’t. Time will prove who is right.

Again a deflection - it's always the same, man...

I don't think either Chisholm or Stan are top pairing... Chisholm WAS their top pairing last night - this is something that Stan will likely never pull off

I'm a huge Barron fan but following your logic I'd be arguing he should be on the 2nd line over perfetti... can't just pluck fancy stats from one game to make your point

But like I said before I would start stan-samberg for game one...because I'm sure your next move is calling me a hater