Post-Game Talk: Jets 4 - Mild 2

[KingBogo]

Trouble is nhl organizations are filled with people who dedicate their lives to it - and may not see eye to eye... like chevys pr3sser about giving heinola a late season shot and then Maurice never playing him...


Man, you are a piece of work haha... pick a fight over a nothing comment, back it up with a meaningless stat and then resort to insults. It's the same pattern over and over. Enjoy your evening.

And enjoy yours.

 

[Buffdog]

Except that Ville has shown a lot more than Stan had at the same age. He has excelled at lower levels, which Stan never did.

So did Sami Niku.

I said "at the NHL level" specifically

 

[Puckatron 3000]

I think we can all agree that Stanley will probably top out better than Chara, and just leave it at that.

 

[Gm0ney]

Why is he a sunk cost fallacy? Because the org didn't put him on waivers and give him a way for nothing or trade him for a 5th round pick when he was slow to develop?

At what point is that no longer true? 200 NHL games? 300?

I guess they could have gone the Vesalainan route with him and you'd have been happier

Again, rando internet poster knows how to handle the development of a young NHL player better than an NHL organization that is filled with people who dedicate their lives to it

The org traded up to get him, spent years developing him, afforded him every opportunity to become a regular NHLer, protected him over DeMelo in the Seattle expansion draft, risked and lost objectively better defensemen on waivers to keep him instead...sunk costs. Would the org be better off if they'd tried to Griffin Reinhart him back in 2019? Almost certainly.

 

[Buffdog]

The org traded up to get him, spent years developing him, afforded him every opportunity to become a regular NHLer, protected him over DeMelo in the Seattle expansion draft, risked and lost objectively better defensemen on waivers to keep him instead...sunk costs. Would the org be better off if they'd tried to Griffin Reinhart him back in 2019? Almost certainly.

At the end of the day, a first round pick has appeared to turn into an NHL regular.

Sunk cost fallacy only applies if no return is ever recovered, which isn't the case here

Who are the objectively better defensemen we lost? Kovy and Chisholm?

I think maybe you meant to say "subjectively", because that's just your opinion. I'm curious how many minutes you've watched of those two guys

 

[KingBogo]

Nobodies propping Stan up on some sort of pedestal -
For the most part, he is hammered around here - so I don't get it when a few fans come out and give him a pat on the back, that there is a need to step in and point out how lucky he's been.
If a player is playing well, what's the point in pressing on with how he was in the past, or the opportunities he's had, and how bad the org f##ked up when they drafted him? I don't get it. It's almost like if you're not shitting on this guy, you should keep your mouth shut.

It has gotten a little weird around here, when merely pointing out that Stan had a good game brings out the venom for him. The guy is a Jet after all, and him playing well is actually good for us.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Reading the past few pages of this thread, I would say that we should be thankful for two things….

1) Stanley has surpassed many expectations and may actually be a decent dman with some size.

2) when we spend post after post trying to figure out who comes out of this lineup, it shows how much depth we have heading into the playoffs. This will pay dividends (as George Foreman used to be fond of saying).

As others have said, any player who is doing better than expected or even just good, is a great thing for our team.

 

[JetsUK]

Not to turn this into a Ville discussion...

But I'd say that his showing early into his career (prior to this preseason) were as bad or worse than Stanley's (although his games were played when he was much younger than Stanley's first games)

There seems to be some weird reverse discrimination against Logan because of his size, and corresponding weird favoritism towards Heinola because of his skill shown at lower levels

At the end of the day, they both need to prove themselves at the NHL level. Stan's been given opportunities but he's also been sat for periods of time to the point where he's allegedly asked for a trade

Ville had 13 games in the NHL by the end of his D+2 season, 25 by the end of his D+3 year and 35 by the end of his D+4 year.

Stanley didn't get a single game until his D+5 season

IDK about that. Heinola has his haters. Every play scrutinized, every missed hit or fluffed pass dissected. Can't skate can't shoot can't hit, too small too weak too flashy too popcorn'd too Finnish too whatever -- just like Stan, really, but in opposite world. These two are our bisected souls, and if this were Shogun, they'd have to face each other at centre ice and do battle unto waivers.

Nothing either player can do about their perception by fans really. I'd say both have done their best to listen to coaching and improve, and make an impact where and when they can, and both deserve their shots now above Schmidt or whomever next season or during the POs.

I do think Stan's size has bought him more chances than many -- but that's hockey, or one version of it anyway. I'd much rather have had both -- and Kovy -- playing above some of the slugs we threw out there under Late Maurice. Those were wasted years, and hopefully some lessons were learned.

But then we have to hear about how our top line has been "struggling" even as it's producing and dominating its opposition, and counting the shifts until KFC gets pushed back upstairs, and watch as Top Pairing Pionk makes JMo work 3x as hard to cover for his gaffes and it's fair to wonder what all these seasoned hockey folk are seeing, and why.

But however the org has or hasn't smoothed his path or screwed him over, if Stan is playing good hockey he's earned it, and it's a nice weapon to take into a playoff series. And hopefully Ville's chance comes next year -- he too hopefully brings something special to the lineup, potentially, and has earned his shot.

And then hopefully Salamonster can break through and finally push Pionk off to his next assignment. And we can start all over again, with the next batch.

 

[Atoyot]

I think people may be putting far too much value into a few good games from Stanley. He still hasn't shown that he can play well for any extended period of time at this level.

 

[WPGChief]

I'm a certified Stanley (draft pick) hater™, and I think he's been playing better than Pionk at the moment

EDIT: In the "extremely small sample size" warning using data from PuckIQ, Pionk against "elite" competition since Mar 1 has been giving up 53.3 "dangerous Fenwicks against" per 60 minutes. Only Morrissey (and Colin Miller) is worse than that, but at least Morrissey is also creating just as much "dangerous Fenwicks for" - Pionk is about ~20 less per 60, by comparison. Stanley in his minutes against "middle" competition in that time span has kept things pretty low event on both sides of the ice, which is a credit to him for how glaringly bad his errors can visually be given his lack of footspeed. Pionk is just chaotically bad, right now (and Miller ain't coming to save the day, folks).

EDIT 2: I don't really think the above proves anything other than confirming my thoughts that Pionk has been given a lot of tough minutes (especially as of late) and hasn't come out looking great. It's not like you give those minutes to Stanley and he'll fair any better, in all likelihood. IMO this is more a fault of the org for not identifying a weak area and addressing it (*looks longingly at Chris Tanev in DAL*)

 

[Cotton Eye Joe]

I think people may be putting far too much value into a few good games from Stanley. He still hasn't shown that he can play well for any extended period of time at this level.

Bingo! Stanzilla fools a chunk of fans into thinking he can play regularly at an acceptable level.
He looks this way against lower/mid tier teams.
He gets eaten alive by the top teams/players.

 

[WolfHouse]

And enjoy yours.

You too.

 

[scelaton]

I'm a certified Stanley (draft pick) hater™, and I think he's been playing better than Pionk at the moment

Please let us know how to get certified as a hater--HF Jetters need that validation in the worst way.