Player Discussion Jesse Puljujarvi Discussion Part 4 [UPD: Nov 24th Recalled]

[Drivesaitl]

He's also not bleeding -'s like a stuck pig. As he learns to use his size, just how big and strong he is and continues to play with 2 solid players consistently, the rest will come. Hell he even got a test ride on the McDavid line last game.

The difficulty though with this is that we're supposed to be getting more return from the player and the team needs it. As I just mentioned Lucic and Pulju are supposed to be the two primary wingers on this club. its untenable for them to be both sputtering indefinitely.

We're in a dogfight for a playoff spot and while I do think we will bag a spot, I fear we do that at the expense of running McD, Drai, Nuge ragged all season as on this team that's basically it for top rank production. Could you imagine if we were even getting what we're supposed to be from Lucic. 50pts, or Pulju around 40.

The trouble with saying that its OK if some players don't bleed is that those players are supposed to be part of the production core on this roster. Simply not bleeding is not enough. It is if your name is say Rieder, Kass, Brodz, even Chiasson, you aren't expected to be big contributors on the team. Those players were here for roles.

That said Lucic and Pulju should be buying Chiasson and Khaira dinner every night that those players are doing their jobs.

 

[MessierII]

Hopefully they’ll start to come hopefully if his useage stays the same. He’s creating more chances in the last few weeks and way more involved.



True, no players ever put it together offensively if they haven’t by the age of 20. If you aren’t among the leagues point leaders by then you’ll never be a big point producer...


Okie

He’s played 116 games and looks worse offensively this year than last. If he has 60-80 point potential he would have shown an inkling of that kind of offensive upside by now. He hasn’t come close.

 

[GameChanger]

The difficulty though with this is that we're supposed to be getting more return from the player and the team needs it. As I just mentioned Lucic and Pulju are supposed to be the two primary wingers on this club. its untenable for them to be both sputtering indefinitely.

Of course, but I don't quite get this timing. There's been constant progress under Hitch and for the last few games he's played clearly better and he's contributed for 2 goals in 3 games.

When you consider that he's played just over 10 minutes (a bit more so averaging some 11-12 in the last games) with no real PP time it may be unrealistic to expect much more at the moment. The coming games will show if he can keep that up and then we know a bit more.

That said Lucic and Pulju should be buying Chiasson and Khaira dinner every night that those players are doing their jobs.

There are times when just about each player should be buying meals for some others. You know even Drai had that for a while at the beginning of the previous season. If it was that easy the star players like him would never struggle, so IMO it'd be just stupid to demote Pulju just when he seems to be getting it again. TM did that a couple of times and it didn't bring good results. If there's no production/contribution to goals and especially if the line leaks things can be assesed again after a while.

 

[MessierII]

Where's the logic that a player has 3 seasons to prove himself as a big point producer?! At 20 years old, he has tons of time to develop properly into his bigger frame. Bigger players take longer to develop.

You would hope that 3 years into any career in any line of work at the age of 20, you wouldn't be given the tag of "Well, I guess that's the best he can do."

This is why players need time, and fans need to have patience. I've said it before, 50-60 games on the 2nd line next to Nuge will be more telling (and the improvement has clearly been seen).

Most top line players show some serious production within their first 100+ games. He just hasn’t done it. There’s no signs of this guy becoming a top line forward. Doesn’t mean he can’t be a good player but he’s just not going to be a legit top line guy.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

On mobile so pardon the lack of directed replies.

His ppg is low, he was a fractured player when he was sent down. Even Hitch said it'll take about a month for him to come around and we are about 3 weeks in now.

Most players dont even see the NHL at 20, so I don't gaf if his numbers are poor as long as he is improving and gets going offensively in the next calendar year.

The same people that are mourning the loss of Strome (how was his ppg before being traded?) Are crapping on a much younger player with a similar pedigree.

The kid has tremendous physical tools and he is learning to use them, once that becomes second nature the rest will come. The worst thing that we could do is drop him into the bottom 6 right now.

 

[McJadeddog]

On mobile so pardon the lack of directed replies.

His ppg is low, he was a fractured player when he was sent down. Even Hitch said it'll take about a month for him to come around and we are about 3 weeks in now.

Most players dont even see the NHL at 20, so I don't gaf if his numbers are poor as long as he is improving and gets going offensively in the next calendar year.

The same people that are mourning the loss of Strome (how was his ppg before being traded?) Are crapping on a much younger player with a similar pedigree.

The kid has tremendous physical tools and he is learning to use them, once that becomes second nature the rest will come. The worst thing that we could do is drop him into the bottom 6 right now.

I've been very hard on him, and think he was essentially a wasted pick, but I don't see how anybody can argue with the bold part. All you can ask of a player is to get better and improve. Pulj can't control where he was drafted, all he can control is his own situation and his own work ethic.

 

[McJadeddog]

Most top line players show some serious production within their first 100+ games. He just hasn’t done it. There’s no signs of this guy becoming a top line forward. Doesn’t mean he can’t be a good player but he’s just not going to be a legit top line guy.

To be fair, I don't think anybody is arguing that he will be a top-line player anymore. That ship has sailed. People just want him to be a useful player in some manner moving forward.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

To be fair, I don't think anybody is arguing that he will be a top-line player anymore. That ship has sailed. People just want him to be a useful player in some manner moving forward.

I'm not ready to write him off as a top line player.

 

[McJadeddog]

I'm not ready to write him off as a top line player.

I think that is a pretty big mistake. The list of players who have played 100+ games and have a 0.25 PPG rate, who then went on to be a top-line player is fairly short. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it is HIGHLY unlikely at this point.

 

[nabob]

He’s played 116 games and looks worse offensively this year than last. If he has 60-80 point potential he would have shown an inkling of that kind of offensive upside by now. He hasn’t come close.

I don’t see how this applies to my post. He did put up numbers in that range last season when he had top 6 ice time. That’s a fact. But as a young 19 year old he wasn’t able to produce much playing the majority of the second half of the season with Lucic and Strome (shocker).

Go ahead and write him off right now if you want. If you think he’ll never amount to anything I’m not going to attempt to change your mind any further.

 

[nabob]

I think that is a pretty big mistake. The list of players who have played 100+ games and have a 0.25 PPG rate, who then went on to be a top-line player is fairly short. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it is HIGHLY unlikely at this point.

It’s highly unlikely for him to become the 40G 80P player most people thought he’d become when drafted. He’s still being judged off those expectations by a lot of people. I’ll wait to compelstely judge him by the time he is 22-23 and has had some decent coaching. Something he obviously needed since day on and something he clearly didn’t have the last two years.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

It’s highly unlikely for him to become the 40G 80P player most people thought he’d become when drafted. He’s still being judged off those expectations by a lot of people. I’ll wait to compelstely judge him by the time he is 22-23 and has had some decent coaching. Something he obviously needed since day on and something he clearly didn’t have the last two years.

This post is just not true. People are not expecting him to have an 80 point season. They are expecting him not to have the lowest point total of any forward on the team.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

My expectations haven't shifted one bit. He still has that elite two-way scoring winger potential.

Did I think he would struggle this much, no. However, skill doesn't just disappear. He has had two rough years, where he has seen his friends and rivals eclipse him while he has been sitting in a press box and riding a bus in the AHL and when he played in the NHL it was one mistake and off to McLellan's doghouse.

I think his lack of offence is mainly a confidence issue caused by the aforementioned things.

 

[CornKicker]

It’s highly unlikely for him to become the 40G 80P player most people thought he’d become when drafted. He’s still being judged off those expectations by a lot of people. I’ll wait to compelstely judge him by the time he is 22-23 and has had some decent coaching. Something he obviously needed since day on and something he clearly didn’t have the last two years.

i will judge him once he has played 100 games in a row, sure its easy to say hes played over 100 games but they are in sporadic chunks and the majority of the time with complete bums.

i actually want to see him with spooner/kharia and attempt to be the driver on that line. bring the offence and score at a once every 4-5 game pace for the rest of the year.

 

[Mr Tadakichi]

I said it before, he won't be a pure goal scorer. He will be a Silfverberg type player, where he can chip in offensively but has awesome defensive capabilities.

 

[nabob]

This post is just not true. People are not expecting him to have an 80 point season. They are expecting him not to have the lowest point total of any forward on the team.

There’s plenty of posters who are upset he hasn’t met the expectations that were put upon him when he was draft. Or do you speak for everyone? Especially those who have said multiple times in this thread alone what a disappoint he is for a 4th overall pick who was expected to be Star first line player already.

 

[nabob]

i will judge him once he has played 100 games in a row, sure its easy to say hes played over 100 games but they are in sporadic chunks and the majority of the time with complete bums.

i actually want to see him with spooner/kharia and attempt to be the driver on that line. bring the offence and score at a once every 4-5 game pace for the rest of the year.

I agree with you on the 100 games part. Jesse was like McLellan’s personal yo-yo the last few years.

Not sure playing with two inconsistent players who have yet to establish themselves as much is the best spot for him. Who knows they may work. I do like the way him and Khaira play together. I have wanted to see a Drai/Puljujarvi/kharia line for a year now.

 

[Panda Bear]

I think that is a pretty big mistake. The list of players who have played 100+ games and have a 0.25 PPG rate, who then went on to be a top-line player is fairly short. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it is HIGHLY unlikely at this point.

Puljujarvj entered the NHL as an 18 year old and was horrifically handled by McLellan.

Maurice put Laine in situations to succeed, allowed him to play through mistakes, and treated him consistently. Tortorella did the same with Dubois, Gulutzan with Tkachuk, Tocchet with Keller and Chychrun, Cooper with Sergachev.

There's a template for developing young players. Puljujarvi got f***ed around for over two years. It's no wonder whatsoever that he's behind in development. You don't throw highly-drafted players on the fourth line and task them with being a grinder, bench them constantly, and ignore them when they need help the most.

McLellan would've ruined any of the aforementioned players. Yes, even Laine, because McLellan would've obsessed about his weak defensive and neutral zone play, his inconsistent boardwork, and skating. Laine still isn't amazing in any of those categories, but shockingly, he's still a damned good player because he got developed properly.

 

[McShogun99]

This season should have been his rookies year. He wasn’t even close to ready hjs first two seasons and most people saw that except Oilers management.

 

[Panda Bear]

I seriously can't emphasise enough how poorly McLellan handled Puljujarvi.

Organizations just straight up don't make highly rated prospects start from the fourth line and work their way up as defensively responsible grinders before getting a real chance in the top six and the powerplay, and then punish them when they don't succeed for playing a totally foreign game.

It's not a f***ing thing.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I think that is a pretty big mistake. The list of players who have played 100+ games and have a 0.25 PPG rate, who then went on to be a top-line player is fairly short. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it is HIGHLY unlikely at this point.

5 years after being drafted Wheeler had 45 points in the NHL.
3 seasons after being drafted Scheifele had 34 points in 63 games.
Couturier had a career high of 39 points prior to getting 76 last season.
Prior to his 4th season post draft Ryan Johansen had 14-19-33 and a -9 in 107 NHL games.

The odds may not be in his favor, but I'm not ready to give up on him and thankfully neither is our coach and GM.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

There’s plenty of posters who are upset he hasn’t met the expectations that were put upon him when he was draft. Or do you speak for everyone? Especially those who have said multiple times in this thread alone what a disappoint he is for a 4th overall pick who was expected to be Star first line player already.

Oh okay well I’m not one them. Don’t get me wrong if a 4th overall pick turns out to be a 3rd line penalty killer... then he is a bust. I think he can be a top two line winger eventually. I’m just disappointed he has three points. Just as snake bit as lucic it seems.

 

[space321]

Guys, keep in mind Nino Niederreiter went a whole season scoring 1 goal 0 assists in 55 games. Granted Nino has an incredibly late birthday, but it still took him years before being able to score 20 goals. Also Nino didn't even hit point/game in the AHL in his draft+3 season.

Jesse is far from a lost cause, but whether this team has the infrastructure to support him, or if we can afford to wait for him to adapt to the NHL, that is the question.

 

[bobbythebrain]

I seriously can't emphasise enough how poorly McLellan handled Puljujarvi.

Organizations just straight up don't make highly rated prospects start from the fourth line and work their way up as defensively responsible grinders before getting a real chance in the top six and the powerplay, and then punish them when they don't succeed for playing a totally foreign game.

It's not a ****ing thing.

Seguin, Getzlaf, Perry, Sedins, etc, etc

 

[Up the Irons]

It’s highly unlikely for him to become the 40G 80P player most people thought he’d become when drafted. He’s still being judged off those expectations by a lot of people. I’ll wait to compelstely judge him by the time he is 22-23 and has had some decent coaching. Something he obviously needed since day on and something he clearly didn’t have the last two years.

he's also being judged by/compared to the players we didn't take (Tkachuk, Sergachev). This team just has a knack for picking the one choice out of 3 or 4 that ends up underachieving. Its highly, tho not impossible, that Pulju has a better career than Tkachuk.

As for players that don't show signs of top line quality, then do later, about the only one I can think of is Blake Wheeler.