Player Discussion Jesse Puljujarvi Discussion Part 4 [UPD: Nov 24th Recalled]

[guymez]

He's also not bleeding -'s like a stuck pig. As he learns to use his size, just how big and strong he is and continues to play with 2 solid players consistently, the rest will come. Hell he even got a test ride on the McDavid line last game.

This is a reasonable take IMO. I am just suggesting that the points really need to come this season.
He is last on the team in scoring with a 0.13 ppg.
Thats not even close to good enough.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

This is a reasonable take IMO. I am just suggesting that the points really need to come this season.
He is last on the team in scoring with a 0.13 ppg.
Thats not even close to good enough.

It's absurd.

 

[elmaco]

I'm sure there are plenty of players who scored at a 10 point pace 3 years into their NHL careers who amounted to anything.

I'd love a list.

You are trolling at this point, look at the amount of games played not years wow. Real life is not NHL19, you dont learn from the press box.

 

[Llamamoto]

I thought JP has been plying great the last few games. He just isn’t getting the breaks yet but they will come.

Vladimir Tarasenko?

He played at a 40 point pace when he was 21.
He never played in the NHL when he was 20.

 

[McShogun99]

Vladimir Tarasenko?

He played at a 40 point pace when he was 21.
He never played in the NHL when he was 20.

I was talking about Pulujarvi.

 

[Llamamoto]

I was talking about Pulujarvi.

Oops, replied to the wrong post.

 

[GameChanger]

I'm sure there are plenty of players who scored at a 10 point pace 3 years into their NHL careers who amounted to anything.

I'd love a list.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you have said Pulju didn't deserve to play in the NHL or to stay in the 1st line in his first season. You've also said he didn't really play well enough to deserve more from Todd last season, right?

Those opinions are fine as are any opinions, but if you now judge his performance by the production numbers that should mean you admit you were wrong with some of those things you've said earlier.

I struggle to find as respecting words as I'd like, but all I'm saying is we can't use the stats when we want and neglect them when it suits our opinions better. I agree the current production numbers look really bad, but if that means he's playing badly now it should also mean he did great for the first months of his 2nd season. It should also mean he did pretty well in his first season until the last stretch of games with very low minutes in the bottom6.

I don't think it's that black and white, though, but I'm after fair usage of stats. I know it's sometimes hard and that includes myself.

 

[CupofOil]

nope, no breaks. He's + 3 years in the NHL, and had ample development awarded to him. In a 60 minute game, I refuse to highlight his game b/c of a few plays here and there.

It's been 12 games now.

How much of a break would you cut Strome if he was on the wing w/the same results?

If JJ was 2 points in 12 games on the wing..you think he'd still be there?

This is ridiculous.
First of all, Strome is 5 years older so he should have a higher expectation set for him.

Secondly, Puljujarvi is still developing and trying to figure out this league. He was not given "ample" opportunity under Mclellan, he was jerked around being shuffled from line to line then back and forth between press box, AHL, back to NHL, back to AHL under a coach who seemingly had no interest in developing him.

I understand that the expectation of a 2nd line RW should be to produce offense but in this case, it's important that he work on the little things then hopefully the rest will come. What I'm seeing is a player that is more engaged, going to the net more, being hard on the forecheck, getting in the battle so to speak. These are the types of things that will breed confidence and eventually bring out more offense in his game.
It's not there yet but you can see he's getting closer. I don't know how long it will take for the offense to break out or if it ever will but I do know that Hitch is doing the right thing by sticking him on a line with a solid 2 way player like RNH and giving him some sense of familiarity and stability but it's going to take some time and patience for his game to flourish.

Honestly, some of you are way too impatient and are putting unrealistic expectations on a 20 year old player whose confidence is still in repair mode. If we don't see real progress by the end of the season then it'll be time to wonder if it'll ever happen but in the meantime, you take the little victories with him and don't just look at a stat sheet to assess his performance.

 

[Llamamoto]

This is ridiculous.
First of all, Strome is 5 years older so he should have a higher expectation set for him.

Secondly, Puljujarvi is still developing and trying to figure out this league. He was not given "ample" opportunity under Mclellan, he was jerked around being shuffled from line to line then back and forth between press box, AHL, back to NHL, back to AHL under a coach who seemingly had no interest in developing him.

I understand that the expectation of a 2nd line RW should be to produce offense but in this case, it's important that he work on the little things then hopefully the rest will come. What I'm seeing is a player that is more engaged, going to the net more, being hard on the forecheck, getting in the battle so to speak. These are the types of things that will breed confidence and eventually bring out more offense in his game.
It's not there yet but you can see he's getting closer. I don't know how long it will take for the offense to break out or if it ever will but I do know that Hitch is doing the right thing by sticking him on a line and giving him some sense of familiarity and stability but it's going to take some time and patience for his game to flourish.
Honestly, some of you are way too impatient and are putting unrealistic expectations on a player whose confidence is still in repair mode. If we don't see real progress by the end of the season then it'll be time to wonder if it'll ever happen but in the meantime, you take the little victories with him and don't just look at a stat sheet to assess his performance.

Even after the season, I would not give up hope on him. Unless we can get a lot of value for him, I would keep him. Tarasenko first entered the league at 21, and only put up 19 points.

 

[CupofOil]

Tarasenko?

Lehtinen. Helped turn Zubov into a better overall player.

 

[GameChanger]

He was not given "ample" opportunity under Mclellan, he was jerked around being shuffled from line to line then back and forth between press box, AHL, back to NHL, back to AHL under a coach who seemingly had no interest in developing him.

I think this was a big problem for Pulju and it played a big part in why the beginning of the season was so hard after a good preseason. TM changed one winger at the end of the preseason and gave that line just two games together before demoting Pulju to the 4th line. After that it was constantly changing linemates and being benched until TM got fired.

That doesn't mean Jesse didn't play any part as he and his confidence clearly weren't ready for that. I also think he started to get flashbacks from the really quiet end of the 2nd season after the excitment that preseason brought.

Now a bit different kind of an approach. While I really believe the team could've got much more out of Pulju if there'd been another kind of a coach earlier, it's possible this all will end just fine. I feel Pulju hasn't really used his earlier strengths much and TM has played a part in this. Instead he's been learning new skills such as using his body, playing defensively, forechecking and putting in rebounds. If Hitch can now help with really bringing those old strengths to the NHL level, which really made him a special prospect earlier, it could be quite a combination one day.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Can't we just be patient and thankful that his next contract will be dirt cheap? He's starting to contribute positively to the game, the rest will come.

 

[Todd from Leduc]

I think Hitch needs to take away the Forenight from Jesse. Some of these millennium kids are too sheltered and distracted by computer games.

I guarantee Wayne and the boys weren’t playing collecovision in the 80’s, they were out there getting sauced and putting up bedpost notches. That’s how you build a team, didn’t matter who you were or what you were into, if you were out there with the boys you were part of the team. That included Glen Anderson and Jari Kuri.

 

[CupofOil]

I think this was a big problem for Pulju and it played a big part in why the beginning of the season was so hard after a good preseason. TM changed one winger at the end of the preseason and gave that line just two games together before demoting Pulju to the 4th line. After that it was constantly changing linemates and being benched until TM got fired.

That doesn't mean Jesse didn't play any part as he and his confidence clearly weren't ready for that. I also think he started to get flashbacks from the really quiet end of the 2nd season after the excitment that preseason brought.

Now a bit different kind of an approach. While I really believe the team could've got much more out of Pulju if there'd been another kind of a coach earlier, it's possible this all will end just fine. I feel Pulju hasn't really used his earlier strengths much and TM has played a part in this. Instead he's been learning new skills such as using his body, playing defensively, forechecking and putting in rebounds. If Hitch can now help with really bringing those old strengths to the NHL level, which really made him a special prospect earlier, it could be quite a combination one day.

I know the Oilers need a scoring winger for the 2nd line but I honestly think it's more important that they develop Pulju in that role than go for a short term fix so I hope that Hitchcock sticks him there for the rest of the season then make a bigger assessment on him in the offseason either way.

With him due for a contract and with the uncertainty surrounding GM and coach going into the offseason, they need to see what they have in him this season as far as top 6 role is concerned. I think he needs to show some real progress by the end of the season or a decision might have to be made on his future here. Realistically, you need to some signs of life by the end of an ELC contract, they can't throw him into the top 6 next season with any uncertainty.

 

[harpoon]

All this talk of JP being only twenty and still finding his confidence in the league etc reminds me of guys like Gagner and Hall and RNH and Eberle who were expected to not only produce points but be ‘leaders’ (its true, ask @HK97) at eighteen, nineteen and twenty. Oh, and turn around the ‘culture’ of a tanking franchise while they were at it.

Remembering what this board did to a couple of those guys, I’m not at all surprised to see some posters ripping on Puljujarvi like they have nothing better to do.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

All this talk of JP being only twenty and still finding his confidence in the league etc reminds me of guys like Gagner and Hall and RNH and Eberle who were expected to not only produce points but be ‘leaders’ (its true, ask @HK97) at eighteen, nineteen and twenty. Oh, and turn around the ‘culture’ of a tanking franchise while they were at it.

Remembering what this board did to a couple of those guys, I’m not at all surprised to see some posters ripping on Puljujarvi like they have nothing better to do.

The Oilers have never been patient with their top draft picks and they weren't patient with this one either.

That said, it would be nice if he started producing some points. I know points aren't everything, but they're still something.

 

[FrmrPlyr]

nope, no breaks. He's + 3 years in the NHL, and had ample development awarded to him. In a 60 minute game, I refuse to highlight his game b/c of a few plays here and there.

It's been 12 games now.

How much of a break would you cut Strome if he was on the wing w/the same results?

If JJ was 2 points in 12 games on the wing..you think he'd still be there?

Give the kid a chance to grow at his own pace. You mentioned Tanev so you watched the Canuck game. They didn't give up on Virtanen and they now have a legitimate player how is all of 22 years old now and would be fifth on our team in goals being one behind RHN. JP is a big bodied kid who can skate and has shown at previous levels he can score. Let him work out his problems and give him a chance. He isn't a defensive liability so why all the hate for kid who isn't old enough to drink on US road trips?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

This is a reasonable take IMO. I am just suggesting that the points really need to come this season.
He is last on the team in scoring with a 0.13 ppg.
Thats not even close to good enough.

We all want to see him putting up points. That said he is starting to look the part of a contributing NHL player. In the last game he pokes the puck free, boxes out (basketball term) around the goal so that Nuge gets a clear lane and scores. He didn't get a point but he was a positive contributor on that goal. He is not hurting us out there, he is also learning from Khaira first hand about what big bodied guys can do if they play assertive. He is gaining confidence with his linemates and sooner or later the offense will come. It may not come as quickly or in the quantity that we'd like to see from him, but he is a very important piece of this team going forward and for once he's not being dicked around by the coaching staff.

All this talk of JP being only twenty and still finding his confidence in the league etc reminds me of guys like Gagner and Hall and RNH and Eberle who were expected to not only produce points but be ‘leaders’ (its true, ask @HK97) at eighteen, nineteen and twenty. Oh, and turn around the ‘culture’ of a tanking franchise while they were at it.

Remembering what this board did to a couple of those guys, I’m not at all surprised to see some posters ripping on Puljujarvi like they have nothing better to do.

Some guys take longer to get there than others, it seems that some bigger guys tend to take a bit longer sometimes. Thornton, Johansen. Wheeler, Couturier, Scheifele, etc. are all guys that didn't set the league on fire right away. You just don't trade away guys like Jesse until you know what you have in them and it's not a fit for the team. Some people compare him to Paajarvi, Magnus plyed like he was scared of his own shadow and was not as big or strong as Jesse is. Jesse is learning how to use his size effectively, that is something that Magnus never really did.

 

[fuswald]

Even after the season, I would not give up hope on him. Unless we can get a lot of value for him, I would keep him. Tarasenko first entered the league at 21, and only put up 19 points.

19 points in 38 games

 

[MessierII]

Pulijarvi will never be a star or a big point producer. That window is done. It’s been 3 seasons and he hasn’t shown it. There’s a good player there none the less. He’ll be a solid middle 6 guy.

 

[Nostradumbass]

I think Hitch needs to take away the Forenight from Jesse. Some of these millennium kids are too sheltered and distracted by computer games.

I guarantee Wayne and the boys weren’t playing collecovision in the 80’s, they were out there getting sauced and putting up bedpost notches. That’s how you build a team, didn’t matter who you were or what you were into, if you were out there with the boys you were part of the team. That included Glen Anderson and Jari Kuri.

Does anyone else think Todd from Leduc is actually Smytty?

 

[guymez]

We all want to see him putting up points. That said he is starting to look the part of a contributing NHL player. In the last game he pokes the puck free, boxes out (basketball term) around the goal so that Nuge gets a clear lane and scores. He didn't get a point but he was a positive contributor on that goal. He is not hurting us out there, he is also learning from Khaira first hand about what big bodied guys can do if they play assertive. He is gaining confidence with his linemates and sooner or later the offense will come. It may not come as quickly or in the quantity that we'd like to see from him, but he is a very important piece of this team going forward and for once he's not being dicked around by the coaching staff.

He does look better but thats only been for a couple of games. He needs to do that for at least 20+ games and he needs to do that this season.
More importantly his PPG is shockingly low. To the point of being in bust territory. I cant think of any previous players that recovered from a PPG as bad as Jesse is putting up in his 3rd year. He is down there with goalies in terms of PPG.
He needs to put up points and do it soon. The rest of this season is make or break for Jesse.
If things dont change will he not be an Oiler much longer.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I thought last night was one of the best games I've seen Pulju play in a very long time. He looked like he had a purpose out there and he was confident with the puck on his stick. I think he showed more last night than he probably has in the last calendar year combined. Usually he just looks lost out there and seems to be skating in mud, not knowing where to go. But last night was the first time in a long time that I saw him actually use his speed to his advantage and blow by guys.

I think he has a ton of work to do on his release though, it's just way too slow and telegraphed, and his passing was a bit off as well with him screwing up a couple of simple east-west passes in the neutral zone that killed the play. But at least he is finally starting to show some promise, mind you the bar is quite low though. But if he can keep this up and Hitch keeps working with him then maybe he can start to produce a little more regularly in the 2nd half of the season.

I saw the most physical effort from him I've seen, and he's ratcheted that up this season, generally, to where he is being more physically involved in the plays, and using his body, then I've seen him be consistent with before.

but..the hand eye coordination is awful. He's really struggling on the puck, clumsy with it and one would get no indication from his dexterity with the puck that this was a high rank top round pick. He looks like he has no touch, and on confidence in that touch.

The hope was that bringing the bull around the net was going to let that bull out of the cage. But he's really still struggling with puck movement, with finishing. He should be able to bag some sloppy ones, but we'll see.

Its even somewhat disconcerting that the work rate has increased and the results are still not there. Eventually, in a results based business there has to be some.

We already have one supposed go to winger on this team, Lucic, playing for visually better results. Which is short form for doing nothing of substance.

The thing that just destroys this club is to have BOTH its proposed top wingers being in this kind of extended funk. Think what our record would be like if even one or both of these wingers were producing commensurate with expectations.

 

[nabob]

The Oilers have never been patient with their top draft picks and they weren't patient with this one either.

That said, it would be nice if he started producing some points. I know points aren't everything, but they're still something.

Hopefully they’ll start to come hopefully if his useage stays the same. He’s creating more chances in the last few weeks and way more involved.

Pulijarvi will never be a star or a big point producer. That window is done. It’s been 3 seasons and he hasn’t shown it. There’s a good player there none the less. He’ll be a solid middle 6 guy.

True, no players ever put it together offensively if they haven’t by the age of 20. If you aren’t among the leagues point leaders by then you’ll never be a big point producer...


Okie

 

[BlackEye from Xhekaj]

Pulijarvi will never be a star or a big point producer. That window is done. It’s been 3 seasons and he hasn’t shown it. There’s a good player there none the less. He’ll be a solid middle 6 guy.

Where's the logic that a player has 3 seasons to prove himself as a big point producer?! At 20 years old, he has tons of time to develop properly into his bigger frame. Bigger players take longer to develop.

You would hope that 3 years into any career in any line of work at the age of 20, you wouldn't be given the tag of "Well, I guess that's the best he can do."

This is why players need time, and fans need to have patience. I've said it before, 50-60 games on the 2nd line next to Nuge will be more telling (and the improvement has clearly been seen).